Truly Independent: Demystifying the Indie Film Journey

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Welcome to Truly Independent.

I'm Garrett Batty, alongside
my co-host Daren Smith.

Each week we'll go in depth with guests,
industry experts, and we'll even share

our own experiences, all with the goal of
demystifying the independent film process.

This season, it's all about the
script from the first spark of an

idea to a polished final draft,
breaking it down for scheduling,

budgeting, and ultimately shooting.

We'll walk through every step it
takes to get from page to production.

Welcome to Truly Independent.

Garrett Batty: Hello and welcome to
another episode of Truly Independent.

That's how we always start.

Daren, how are you today?

Daren: I'm good, man.

I w- I was you and I were scrambling
'cause it's Labor Day and we're, we were

in family mode and yard work mode, and
it's like, "Oh my gosh, here we go."

So If it sounds like we have
elevated heart rates, that's-

Garrett Batty: I know.

Normally that wouldn't matter except
for we have a very exciting guest that

this might be our best episode yet.

Daren: I think

Garrett Batty: because our guest is
Justin Leong calling in from Singapore.

justin: Yes.

Garrett Batty: thanks for being here,
man, and thanks for hanging out with

justin: me, guys.

Yeah, appreciate it

Garrett Batty: it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Good.

I'm excited to get started and to chat
with you about y- your current project

and your, your what's led up to it.

But first, Daren, y- you had a big
event with with Brotherhood that we do

need an update on, and Justin, you're
gonna have to just be patient with us

'cause I've been waiting all week to-

justin: to

Garrett Batty: I didn't
hear about Brotherhood

justin: brotherhood as well.

But

Daren: We've had five or six now at this
point because we, August 29th, we kicked

off our 20 city Brotherhood Love Your
Neighbor Tour, which is a preview of

the movie that's coming out October 9th.

So it's an opportunity to get
the cast and crew in front of the

audience that we made the movie for.

And we kicked it off in Provo,
where I live, at the Covey Center,

which holds about 670 people,
and we had a sold-out crowd.

It was amazing to see the support there.

And it was a beautiful night.

So we had some songs performed live.

We have some scenes from
the movie that we show.

We have some conversation on stage
with people, and then at the end of

the night, we actually tell them, "Oh,
by the way, you can pre-order your

tickets to see the movie in theaters."

So that's really…

There, the, the goal is twofold.

One is marketing and awareness.

The second is actually proof of demand
that people wanna see this movie.

So it was very cool in the two hours or
so after the event after we announced

that tickets were on sale, we sold
nearly 400 tickets to that audience,

and they've been continually since then.

So that was the 29th, and then last week
I went with the group to Twin Falls, Idaho

on Monday, New York City on Wednesday,
and then I stayed in New York to take

meetings after that event 'cause we had
some investors and some other people there

that I was meeting up with on Thursday.

But the rest of the team went to
Boston, DC, and Miami, and now

this week they're in Nashville, and
Minneapolis, and Indianapolis, and

then Texas, and then California.

We're all over the place the next the
rest of the month really up until our

premieres at the end of the month.

So went really well.

Very grateful for those that have
come out and supported the film,

and that are telling people about
it and helping us with the awareness

piece, and it's going, Garrett.

We're doing it.

Garrett Batty: I, that is so cool Daren.

A- and I'm so excited for you, and
I can't wait to hear more about it.

And talk about what we're doing
as far as making independent

film, like thinking outside the
box and making it making it work,

Daren: Yeah.

Garrett Batty: and you're doing it

justin: Those people you have for the
show they are just, what's like the

context of why they're being invited?

Is it just to hear about the movie or

Daren: To hear about a movie,
but our movie is really about

immigration, about what does it look

justin: Oh, okay

Daren: your neighbor in 2026 America.

So the conversation piece is a big piece.

We're bringing that conversation to the
communities that would benefit from it.

Because in America, there's a lot
going on right now in our country.

And

justin: Yeah.

A lot of chaos

Daren: it's,

justin: like

Daren: We saw what was going on last
year, and Ross and I decided to partner

up on this thing to make this movie, to
make sure that our immigrant brothers

and sisters and friends and neighbors
know that there's people that care

and love them and want them here.

And it's not meant to be a
political statement movie.

It's really meant to be a human story
about what does it look like when all

this crazy stuff that's happening in the
world starts getting closer and closer

to your own front door, and how do you
support those that it's affecting most?

So it's this really beautiful story.

It's a musical, so
there's 16 original songs.

So what we're doing is bringing kind
of a teaser, a 90-minute program

of the conversation, the music, the
scenes, the story behind the movie

to the audiences and the communities
that we made it for so that…

And this is maybe a good transition
into what we wanna talk to you

about, 'cause you're on the front
end of your project right now.

has been that the hardest part
of making an independent film is

not the financing, it's not the
distribution, it's the marketing.

You, if you don't

justin: Yeah

Daren: a way to get the audience
aware that your movie exists and

motivated to come out to theaters and
buy tickets and tell their friends,

it's gonna be really hard to make
a recoupment on your investment.

justin: 14

Daren: encouraged on this
show all the people we talk to

start your marketing day one.

Don't wait

Movie's done.

It's too late.

And I can sit here in the middle
of the marketing push that we're

in, a month out from the movie
coming out, and say, yes, m- the

marketing is still the hardest part.

Garrett Batty: Yeah.

And y- I know that was your
f- those were your first three

hires were marketing people,

Daren: Yeah.

Garrett Batty: once the
movie was green lit.

We're s- we're doing the
same thing with The Pearl.

Okay, but w- but Daren, we
could talk about that all day.

Justin, that, that's not
what you're here for.

So we get a lot of emails from
different individuals regarding

projects or potential show ideas
or topics or questions, and yours

caught my eye, Justin, so thank
you very much for reaching out.

But it's this email that says…

It started with, "Join the new
film by Oscar-winning producer."

justin: Yeah.

Garrett Batty: Hey, that's catchy.

justin: Oscar for the sh-
short film for The Singer

Garrett Batty: It-- is that right?

Daren: That's a

justin: He was the executive
producer of that film.

Harrison was the executive producer,
But my email marketing guy thought that

was a great hook, which evidently it
is, but yeah it's a factual thing now

Garrett Batty: It is factual, and you,
yeah you can back it up because the

email talked about your project that
you're starting out with, that you're

just coming out called The Hungry One.

justin: Yes.

Garrett Batty: so first of all, Justin,
just kinda introduce yourself, kinda

who you are, what your connection
to the project is, and then we'll

get into this process that you're
going on to, to get this film made

justin: Yeah.

All right, thanks.

Yeah, I'm Justin.

I'm the lead producer on the film.

I'm the kind of the creative
producer where came up with the

story and got the writer on board.

the s- the genesis of the story came
from the idea, because in this part of

the world, there's a very interesting
festival called the Hungry Ghost Festival.

it's a festival in the ninth month,
the lunar ninth month, where for

one month the Chinese believe that
the spirits of hell are released

on the earthly realm for one month.

they have all kinds of festivities.

They burn like offerings, like hell money.

They give food.

They even give performances.

it's li- it's like a phil- a filial
piety kind of thing where people

honor their elders, hon- honor their
ancestors and things like that.

I thought of it would be very
interesting if we had a American

Caucasian lady from New York who's
married to a Chinese husband who has

to come and visit her in-laws in a meet
the parents kind of situation while

this is going on at the same time.

So I thought the whole idea of
someone who's not familiar with this

whole thing and then have the whole
mythology of this whole Chinese

festival and then the imagery where
you got statues of Buddhas and burning.

There's a lot of fire,
there's a lot of red.

So I thought visually it
was a very captivating idea.

And yeah, we- so we
came up with the script.

We developed it.

We got, awesome director on
board, Alejandro Hid- Hidalgo.

He's done acclaimed films
like The Exorcism of God which

was distributed by Saban.

He, his first film is
really awesome actually.

It's called The House at the End
of Time, it's like it's this…

he told me it's like the Sixth
Sense meets Interstellar.

And,

Garrett Batty: Oh, wow.

justin: thought he was like, I
thought he was, like, exaggerating

in terms of the concept, but actually
looking at it, it's really, he…

mean he nailed it, I think.

So yeah.

He produced, wrote and directed
a hundred thousand dollar film.

and he released it, self-released
it, self-financed it, and it

got released in Venezuela.

And I think they were only gonna show
it for three weeks in the cinema.

They ended up showing it for sixty weeks,
almost a year, and it's the highest

grossing Venezuelan film of all time.

It made six million dollars on a
hundred, hundred thousand dollar budget.

Daren: Holy

justin: So I mean that, yeah, I

Garrett Batty: Craftsman

justin: to the quality of
the film, and he wrote it.

And I gotta say, I think, that's
his best film I think he's done.

So yeah.

So we got this whole team together,
and we got a cool concept.

Garrett Batty: How'd you
get the director on board?

did you have contacts with him
or reach out to representation?

justin: Oh yeah, the, the
guy you mentioned, the Oscar

producer knew the director.

And

Just sent him the script.

was really into the script and then
yeah, he came on board shortly after that

Garrett Batty: Okay.

And then your producer, your the
Oscar-winning team member was he

a contact that you had already…

are you guys friends?

You guys know each other?

justin: It just happened
by chance actually.

I was doing the financing, as you know
how difficult it is to get investors.

So I went on YouTube and just started
checking, like, how do you finance a film.

Garrett Batty: Yeah

justin: And then there was a guy
called Thomas Kim who released

a YouTube talking about how he
raised $1 million for his film.

So I watched that whole video, and
then I got into contact with him, and

then he linked me up with Harrison.

Garrett Batty: That's cool.

justin: Yeah.

Garrett Batty: I'm,

justin: it's quite
coincidental all these things

Garrett Batty: Okay, Justin, I'm sensing
a general trend here of you, one of

these like never take no for an answer
or just constantly reaching out saying,

"Okay, I'm identifying an individual
or, a talented, passionate person,"

and making them a part of your vision

justin: Yeah, I think you'll be surprised.

I think if you have belief in the
material and obviously the material's

gonna speak for itself, like when
people are gonna read the script

and see what the film is about.

I think people will be surprised
if they just knocked on doors

and had a fearlessness of
like just knocking on doors.

I think they'll be surprised about
who they can get, for their films.

So even like this sales agent who
I'm speaking to, I mean the level

of cast he's asking me to speak to,
they're quite high level people.

But yeah, I think you shouldn't
take no for an answer.

If they can sense your passion, if
they can sense your desire for the

project yeah, because they are creative
people, they're fans themselves.

So I think you shouldn't get into your
head too much about "Oh, will they

reject me or will they look down on me?

I'm a nobody in the business."

Because they're like most creative people,
they're they are fans of the art itself.

So as long as the material and your
passion and they can sense your desire…

I think actually to most people I speak
to, they find it quite refreshing,

speaking to independ- independent
people because a lot of them work on

the studio projects and it's like very
committee based So I think it's a breath

of fresh air to a lot of creatives

Daren: Makes sense

justin: Yeah, the actors or whoever you're
speaking to, I think they resonate with

the independent spirit of making film.

So like the love of making film
or like the passion of making film

if they can sense that from you, I
think it resonates a lot with people

Garrett Batty: Yeah.

C- my business partner and I for
this movie that we're filming or

we're prepping right now that's our
general approach right now as we're

reaching out to potential cast or
crew is they haven't told us no yet.

And rather than work it up in our
heads like, "Oh, they're probably…

it's independent or it's low budget or
it's this topic," or whatever, it's like,

"Hey, we want these people involved,
and they haven't told us no yet.

So let's let them tell us
no or let them say yes."

justin: Yeah, exactly

Garrett Batty: yeah, I love that.

Daren: So where are you at in the
process right now and what are

some of the challenges that you're
coming up against as you're trying

to get this movie up and going?

justin: Yeah, so I've been having quite a
bit of good luck where I got distribution

on board in this part of the world.

So I have a theatrical
distributor here Clover Films.

They distribute all the big Korean movies.

They distributed Parasite, Train to Busan

Daren: amazing

justin: K- big Korean films, and
they do a lot of local content

as well, the Singaporean content.

So they're quite champions
of Singaporean filmmakers.

And yeah, I think we're quite blessed
here where there's not a lot of people

making film in Singapore and maybe in
Malaysia, so there's a lot more people

championing filmmakers in this region,
so they're willing to put your films

out in theaters and talk to streamers.

And also, there's a lot of demand
for the audience here as well to see

localized kind of content over here

Garrett Batty: How's the industry
there as far as independent film,

crew and everything like that?

I was recently there in Singapore
and absolutely loved it.

Was just blown away by obviously the
food and, but the people and everything.

Is there a pretty good
film community there?

justin: Yeah, it's quite, Because,
yeah, as, as the director that I have is

from Venezuela, so he's used to working
in, with LA crews or American crews.

Budget we have for this film is not
very high, but the mileage we can

get for our money is quite amazing.

Daren (2): Okay.

So Justin, where are you guys
at in the process right now?

Are you filming?

Are you in post?

Like you said, you have
distribution lined up.

I'm assuming that brought that up
because you're early in getting that.

So where are you actually
at in the process right now?

justin (2): Yeah, we're just lining
up the last piece of financing.

We're probably gonna go into casting soon.

Like I said, I got a distribution set up.

I'm speaking to a sales agent,
international sales agent,

Who spoke to me about the, the
types of cast which I should get

for the lead role the Caucasian

lady role.

So yeah that's where I- I'm at currently.

And I got a nice location for the

Garrett Batty (2): Oh

justin (2): since it's an ho- house.

So I got a, like a massive
mansion in Kuala Lumpur in KL

Daren (2): Oh, brilliant

justin (2): next to a golf course.

Daren (2): That's awesome.

tell us a little bit about
that conversation with the

you said it was Clover Films?

how did you connect with them?

what was the conversation like?

'Cause I'm sure a lot of people,
we've talked about trying to

line up distribution beforehand.

So what was it like for you?

justin (2): Yeah, he sat down
with me, this guy called Lim Teck.

Yeah, he's the boss of Clover.

So he just sat down with me, asked
me what the film was about, what

the ambitions was for the film.

I said, imagine if we had James
Wan, like the Conjuring and the

Hollywood director, but making a
film in this part of the world.

So that's how I sold it to him,
that if we had a stylized Hollywood

production quality of like suspenseful
filmmaking shots like Brian De Palma,

James Wan in a horror film, and
shooting it that way, very exciting

and, but with an international cast
with this Chinese Taoist concept

of the Hungry Ghost Festival.

And I think it would fly because I
don't think a European or Western

audience have seen something like this.

And it's cool for like the local audience
to see something that they see on a daily

basis, but see in a very Hollywood way.

Like that movie Crazy Rich Asians
like did crazy really sparked

the imagination over here.

With the audiences, it was…

And it was a lot of Singaporean actors
as well in that movie, and I don't think

they ever could foresee, like Jo-Jo-Jon
Chu, the, the great director, like

putting their faces on like a Warner
Brothers movie, and it looks spectacular.

And it was shot here in Singapore.

Garrett Batty (2): Yeah

justin (2): Filmed by a Hollywood
director with local crew.

Like using that kind of idea of Crazy
Rich Asians, but do a horror version

of that and shoot it over here.

And then he I mean, he looked at me
with a bit of disbelief, but then when

I got the script and the directors
on board and all that, I think he

could see the vision come to life.

So yeah, he was very supportive.

And then he brought on Malaysia,
Indonesia and Singapore.

So we have distributions
in three countries.

He's will be speaking to Netflix as well.

So yeah, it was a very…

Yeah.

So after that, I think he very
much came on board and was like

fully supportive after that.

Garrett Batty (2): That is so cool.

What are some of the things in
Singapore that enable that independent

film to really maximize their budget?

'Cause you mentioned, if at a
million-dollar budget, it's gonna

look like a $3 million film or more.

So what are you guys doing
that, that helps that happen?

justin (2): a tax re- there's
a, a cash rebate in Malaysia

for 30% for crews over there.

So if we shoot in Chinatown,
in Kuala Lumpur, they can let

us use the location for free.

The government supports in

Garrett Batty (2): Wow

justin (2): You get very cheap.

The house I rented for 20
days, the mansion, it's like a

nine-bedroom mansion, it was only
like 10,000 US for the whole…

that's to shoot as well.

And yeah, the crew, yeah things
like that are ve- are very cheap

Daren (2): Wow

Garrett Batty (2): Okay, so same
independent film mindset and

just affordability is part of
that, and I love that 30% rebate.

On a million-dollar
movie, that's substantial.

Daren (2): Yeah

Garrett Batty (2): any movie that's
substantial, but for an indie, there's

significant potential marketing money.

justin (2): Yes

Garrett Batty (2): okay, and then you
said you attracted your first investor.

How did that come about?

justin (2): Yeah, that was through a
Taiwanese investor that I had on board.

So I had him, and then I had the
rebate, which was 180,000 US dollars.

then I might be getting a, a
minimum guarantee from either

the sales agent or the Malaysian
distributor, which is pretty awesome.

And then, so I'm just looking
to raise the rest of the chunk

of change for the balance

Garrett Batty (2): Yeah.

But it seems like that first money
in is always the most difficult.

So if you've got that, then you have
momentum to be confident in reaching

out to people and saying, "Hey, this
is, this project is going to happen."

What's your schedule or time-

justin (2): He was more he was, 'Cause
he's a seasoned guy from the industry.

This guy worked with he's an older
gentleman, but he worked as the

production designer for John, John

Garrett Batty (2): Aha.

justin (2): Kong, yeah,
the Hong Kong director.

Yeah, so he was a seasoned player in
the industry he was quite interested

in about the distribution, how I was
gonna get distribution, whether I was

gonna go, am I gonna go to festivals
or am I gonna get a distribution?

So once I got that in place,
then it was quite easy after that

Daren (2): Amazing.

Garrett Batty (2): Ah, that's so cool

Daren (2): you always need the
first one, and if you can do

that then it builds and builds.

And to have…

It's like you've done a really good
job like packaging the project at this

early stage, because when you have
distribution, when you have a director

attached who has some credentials
and has some success already, all of

those little pieces, when you stack
them up, it makes it a lot easier.

So that doesn't mean that it automatically
happens and it's easy, but it makes

it easier than if you're starting from
scratch and you've never done it before,

and nobody on your team's ever done
it before, and you're asking for too

much money, It's a lot harder pitch

justin (2): I don't know about you guys,
but I feel like a lot of film investors

don't really have a lot of knowledge about
how the whole mechanics about the film

especially the business side of the film

Daren (2): Yeah

justin (2): Would you find
that's your experience as

Well,

Daren (2): here in Utah especially, yeah,
you're talking to a lot of investors who

invest in tech or startups or venture
capital funds, and they love movies.

They like taking their family
to movies, but they don't have a

knowledge of this industry, and so
they often will just shrug it off and

be like, "Oh, I don't invest in films.

Oh, it's not a space I invest in."

Yes.

because if they don't understand the
economics or the market- Yeah or any

of those things, the economics behind
it, then it's it's a really risky bet

on top of it already being a really
risky bet to invest in indie film.

And so yeah I've spent a lot of time,
we spend a lot of time, educating

people through this podcast, through
writing that I do online, through

events to say, "Here's what it actually
looks like to invest in indie film,"

because in Utah especially, there,
there's not like a whole set of

institutional investors that do movies.

Garrett Batty (2): Yep.

I've found the same thing and I think
where the, the turning point is whether

they are familiar with film or not
they certainly are familiar with a,

a waterfall, like a, an investment
waterfall, and "Here's how money works."

And so to, to really try to simplify
that for them and say, "This is where

the investment comes in, this is where
it goes, and this is how it's recouped."

And if we can show them that it's
going to recoup at the same rate or

a little bit better than you would be
making at real estate investment now

there's a conversation, and they go,
"Oh, I don't need to know about film.

I just need to know that's the
process, and we've done it before,

and we're gonna try it again."

And then we're also very transparent with
the risk and say, "It is very high risky.

At the end of the day, the
audience may or may not turn out."

justin (2): How do you have that
conversation about like you said,

what, like the bottom line for them?

What's the bottom line for them?

Like in terms like what's the worst
case scenario for this investment?

do you have those kind of

Garrett Batty (2): yes, 100%.

I try to be very transparent, but
also b- tailoring it to why they

are getting involved in the film.

At the end of the day, the, somebody's
going to invest because they love the

story and the process of film, right?

here's how the money flows, and that's
one thing, but what we're doing is we're

making an incredible movie and experience.

So at the end of the day, if all this
ever turns out is the price of a DVD,

which might be the case, we try to be
very transparent, you're gonna come

on set, you're gonna hang out with
Justin Leon and his Oscar-winning crew.

you're gonna get a seat at the premiere,
your name's gonna be on the screen, and

you're gonna love what and you know what?

If you take your family to Disneyland
on vacation, you don't come home and

say, "How do I get my money back?"

You come home and say, "That
was an awesome experience."

justin (2): I should bring
you to my investor meeting.

That was a good, that was a good pitch.

like you're saying, like the
whole experience of the whole…

Is it is that's like you
said, the price of admission.

Like they don't-- not how
many people can say I was on a

movie set, I was part of
a home filmmaking process.

Daren (2): Yeah.

I think it's also important
though that the investors

understand the downside is zero.

The, the real downside is
that you get nothing back.

And we're gonna do everything we can
to make it not zero by getting tax

incentives, by getting minimum guarantees,
by getting distribution beforehand,

by getting good cast and crew, but
none of that guarantees an outcome.

And so I want investors who come
in knowing that the d- the risk is

potentially all the money is gone.

Because then any money
back is good, right?

We definitely want to recoup
their investment, get them their,

preferred interest, get them a
lot of money on the back end.

We want that for them, and, we set
up structures to incentivize them to

do it because that way their money
comes first, and et cetera, et cetera.

But I want an investor who understands
the real risk rather than an investor

that has really high expectations, ' cause

Garrett Batty (2): I agree

Daren (2): the latter is gonna be
very upset if it's like, "Oh you only

made half your money back in theaters.

What the heck?"

Now you're dealing with a phone call
every week going, "Where's my money?

Where's my money?

Where's my money?"

Instead of, hey, getting 50% of your money
back in theaters is a really good outcome

con- for, especially for indie films.

A lot of studio movies don't do that.

So the fact that we recouped 50% is really
good, and an investor who's, written

it off and said, "The downside is zero,
and I'm okay with that risk," is gonna

be really grateful and excited for you.

"Oh my gosh, you made 50% back
in movies, in the theaters.

That's amazing.

Garrett Batty (2): Yeah

Daren (2): Great, we're
gonna do DVD and TVOD.

Great, we're gonna do streaming.

Great, we're gonna do this.

Okay, awesome.

They're gonna be in your corner.

They're gonna be cheering you
on, and the money's great.

That's a nicety.

That's a bonus.

But

justin (2): Yeah.

Daren (2): the investors I've dealt
with that are, like, 100% focused on

the returns, I often tell them, "This
might not be the right investment for

you."

Garrett Batty (2): I
would agree with that.

I've walked away from those conversations
faster than a- any others when they

start to say here's an independent
film that did 45X their investment.

How'd we get to that?"

justin (2): Session

Garrett Batty (2): Yeah, here's the
Napoleon Dynamite, and I love that,

and that's a great success story,
but that's not even a conversation

I wanna start with an investor.

justin (2): Yeah, those
are outlier events.

Yeah, those are like the,
those are the, like the dime.

Garrett Batty (2): yeah.

justin (2): I think the conversation
I had with my distributor was

that he was telling me like the…

Because if we go on distribution with
the theaters and everything that we could

get a Netflix deal of a minimum of like

150k US dollars.

So I'm using that as like the
benchmark for the investors to say,

"Okay, worst case, like if we get
no tickets in the cinema, nothing,

then we got a hundred, one hundred
and fifty thousand there for…"

Which could be maybe even like
close to fifty percent for the

Garrett Batty (2): Yeah, and it's
due, you can do the, the numbers with

that and start to say, " Okay, I've
got a, a, a 30% rebate on a million

dollars, so there's 300 coming in,
and then a 180," what'd you say?

180 from Netflix,

150, so we're at 450.

So we're at half, almost half
recouped just in MGs almost.

And then there is that distributor
MG, which could come in at

another 150 or something.

So there, there are ways to really,
like Daren's saying, try to mitigate

the investment so that they go,
"Oh, this is not just a guy with

an idea hoping to make a movie."

No you see this as a business and you're
gonna treat it as such, then that,

that helps an investor feel confidence.

justin (2): Yeah, for sure.

Garrett Batty (2): Have you…

What's your sche- what's your schedule
or kind of deadline on when you're,

you're trying to get the movie made?

it sounds like an evergreen title.

You're not trying to meet a
deadline, but is there, are there

commitments to be like, "Okay, we
need to shoot by such and such date"?

justin (2): if I get the sales agent
on board, I think he would want to

take it to the European film market
like Cannes and Venice or like Berlin.

There is kind of a deadline
in that sense to shoot it.

So I would be looking at maybe October
to end October or maybe November to

get all the funding in and then start
pre-production in November, December,

and start shooting in January,

Garrett Batty (2): Yeah.

Oh, very cool.

Daren (2): Nice.

Garrett Batty (2): What a--

Daren (2): Times ahead.

Garrett Batty (2): What's that?

Daren (2): Fun times ahead.

Garrett Batty (2): Yeah.

justin (2): You find like the financing…

Oh, do you, you've-- Oh, yeah, you
were saying, Daren, that the market…

Yeah, I agree with that as

Daren (2): I think the marketing

justin (2): But

Daren (2): the hardest part

justin (2): everything now is on
social media, so on, on YouTube.

So it feels like, even that movie
Obsession, it was like purely

on TikTok and purely on YouTube.

It seems like the Gen Z generation gets
their information about films through

through social media, like it seems these

Daren (2): I think that's one way.

I don't think it's absolute.

I don't think it's 100%
of the audience, right?

'Cause I have Gen Alpha kids
who learn about movies because I

want to take them to this movie,
and then they go, "What is it?"

And they look at the trailer,
and they go, "Great."

So I think there's a lot of ways
that you can reach an audience.

The thing I love about indie film
is you don't need everybody to

show up in order to be profitable.

the Doomsday, duo of movies
that are coming out in December

of this year, need to make a
billion dollars to be profitable.

so 100 million people need to
see those movies in theaters.

I'm trying to figure out how to get
a million people to see our movie

in theaters, which is a huge number.

And but the great thing about indie film
is if we had a million people see our

movie, we would be wildly profitable.

We'd make 3X our budget, maybe
5X our budget in theaters if

we had a million people see it.

So there's a really cool reality here with
indie film is you don't need everybody.

So you can be really hyper-targeted
about reaching the people that

you're making the movie for.

So low-budget horror movie fans
that love movies that are set in

the area that you're setting it in,
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

The style, especially the fans of your
director's previous movie, anyone who

liked that, how do you reach them, right?

Hopefully, he was building an email
list or a following or has an awareness

or an ability, a channel to be able
to reach that audience again, right?

it's really thinking about, okay how many
do we actually need to be profitable?

And on a million-dollar movie,
it's not even a million people.

It's a few hundred thousand.

justin (2): No, It's like 2 million,
yeah, 2 million in box office, so

divide by 10, so that's 200,000 people.

Daren (2): So that, in my mind,
that becomes your focus from

now until the movie comes out.

And, my advice would be find the
marketing team now and get them

started now, and get them talking to
people about, "Oh, the script's done.

Oh, we've got our financing.

Oh, we're going into production."

Film behind the scenes.

Release them as you go.

Build the email list as you go.

Because I can tell you, 50% of the
people that are showing up these,

on this tour that we're doing for
Brotherhood come from my email list.

Garrett Batty (2): Yeah

Daren (2): I have the data on
the website that says, "Where are

people coming to the website from?"

It's like 48% are coming from my
email list of 5, 6,000 people.

So it's really important to build
that channel early and often.

Because if, again, if you wait until
the movie's done to go, "Okay, now we

can start telling people about this",
you're gonna wish you had more time.

Garrett Batty (2): I think in making the
movie, again, this is not a coaching call.

This, but I love how it's kind of
this like a brainstorming thing.

I've loved watching the process of saying,
"This is what we need, for this movie.

If we're shooting this Singapore movie for
a million dollars, then we need, like you

say, 150,000 people to see it in theaters
for it to be profitable in theaters."

And whatever he's spent on marketing
is gonna just add to that number.

So do we have access to
that many individuals?

'Cause it seems like, oh, that's
a relatively little, low number.

That's great.

Guess what?

Put a video right now up on YouTube and
see how many views you get of something

that people have never heard of, and I
can guarantee it's not gonna be 150,000.

So you go, "Okay, well-"

justin (2): You need the
distribution channels there,

Garrett Batty (2): need the distribution
channel and we need to build the

team that has those numbers to say,
"Okay, this star has such and such,

and this distributor has 50,000
followers," and things like that.

And you really piece together the
audience where you say, "Okay,

between the team in making this movie,
there are 150,000 paying customers."

Now we have a better argument
for an investor to come in.

But if it's just, "All we need is this,"
that's because you don't have that.

That, th- there's a reality there.

You can't build that audience

justin (2): Yeah, for sure

Garrett Batty (2): That's cool.

I love it, and I love the idea
that your that your guy was

connected with Saban already.

They've they do some great
titles here domestically and

they're behind a lot of…

justin (2): Yeah, they give
quite a lot for MGs as well

Garrett Batty (2): Yeah

justin (2): they take quite a big piece
of the distribution channel in the six

major territories like North America,
U- UK, South Africa and Australia.

So those are the

Garrett Batty (2): Yeah.

Oh, good.

it feels like we need to have another
episode six months from now when you've

just wrapped production or whatever,
when you're getting ready to release,

and we just need to hear the journey

justin (2): Yes

Garrett Batty (2): 'Cause ' I
loved your approach.

I lo- your, just the whole vibe of
saying, "I'm just gonna reach out.

They haven't told me no yet."

And and I think that's how
things are gonna happen

justin (2): yeah, stepping out
into this journey, I didn't expect

all these all these little angels
to come to, come and support.

But yeah, it's been a, it's been a great
there's people that are very supportive.

So yeah, I'm very thankful,
very grateful for them

Garrett Batty (2): It's 'cause it's movie.

People love it.

That's so fun.

You know what?

You're doing something really fun, and
artistic, and creative, and I get…

I have to remind myself each
week People dream about doing

this, and we get to do it.

And,

justin (2): that's true.

That's true like what you were saying,
the best is you just go into the magic

of the storytelling and the magic
of talking about the film and, like,

why you did it in the first place
and the why and the fun aspect of it.

Yeah, it attracts people a lot more
than talking cold numbers or things like

Garrett Batty (2): Cool

Daren (2): Justin, where, this
is a bit of a putting you in the

hot seat, but where can people go
to learn more about the movie and

about the process and follow along?

Do you have an Instagram or do you
have social media or do you have an

email list you can send people to?

justin (2): Yeah, we have Instagram
The Hungry One Facebook as well.

We have a Wefunder ca- the the
hungry o- wefunder.com/thehungryone,

so you can check it out there.

you can find all the news
on all those channels.

Daren (2): Amazing.

Nicely done.

justin (2): Remember your note about,

Daren (2): Yes.

justin (2): About the reaching
to the director's fans.

That's a good, that's a good suggestion
I wanted to say like a crazy idea I

Daren (2): Okay

justin (2): When making the movie.

What the crazy idea I had for the
lead cast, I actually had Megan Fox

as the lead actress for the role.

But it was like a very serious,
like a, a bit like Jodie

Foster in Silence of the Lambs.

So it was like c- completely
opposite to how she normally

gets casted right?

But like just to your idea of like
the marketing side where like you have

Megan Fox in like a horror movie, the…

But then like it's just the question
of whether you can afford her or

Garrett Batty (2): Yeah.

justin (2): like that.

Yeah.

Daren (2): Yep.

Garrett Batty (2): she hasn't
said no yet, so reach out.

Daren (2): There you go

justin (2): She watches,
yeah, maybe she watches this

Garrett Batty (2): Yeah.

justin (2): And reaches out to CAA

Daren (2): never know, and you never know

justin (2): and then I can come
on with her six months later

Megan Fox on this podcast.

Garrett Batty (2): Oh, you're putting it
out, you're putting the seed out there now

justin (2): What I mean you were saying,
like how you were gonna sell the ticket.

I thought Megan Fox, that
kind of name would like…

Garrett Batty (2): 100%.

justin (2): something like that

Garrett Batty (2): Cool, man.

Daren (2): Good

Garrett Batty (2): yeah,

Daren (2): today.

Garrett Batty (2): joy to talk to you.

Thank you so much and good luck.

And keep us posted and we'll
definitely share those links so

people can go follow your project

justin (2): Thanks for having me,
and hap- happy Labor Day, and,

Daren (2): Thank you.

justin (2): enjoy the rest
of the time with your family

Garrett Batty (2): All righty, sir.

Take care.

Nice chatting with you

Daren (2): Thanks so much.

justin (2): Thanks to you.

Bye-bye

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