Truly Independent

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320: a million
dollars as kind of our target, right?

So that's a lot for some people and
it's not very much for other people.

So let's just use that as
kind of our number that we're

raising for these examples.

Okay.

So you're raising a million dollars.

How many people is that?

Is that one person giving
you a million dollars?

Is it 10 people giving you a
hundred thousand on average each?

What does that look like?

Because the more investors you need,
the more people you need to talk to.

And I, I was actually shocked
that you only had 17 people.

This is Truly Independent, a show that
demystifies the indie film journey by

documenting the process of releasing
independent films in theaters.

Each week, Garrett Batty and I,
Darren Smith, will update you

on our journey, bringing guests
to share their insights into the

process and answer your questions.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320: My
friend, my co host, how's it going?

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319: Good.

Good, man.

Good to see you.

How are you?

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320:
Oh, I'm so good.

I've been enjoying seeing the podcast, get
a little bit more traction over the last

few weeks because this season two, I think
we're opening up some topics that are

maybe more applicable to more filmmakers.

And so at least on my
end, I'm seeing more.

Response and more questions
and more feedback.

And so it's good.

We have time to focus on growing a podcast
and not just putting movies in theaters.

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319: Yeah.

It has been fun and we're, you know,
we're cutting it up into different clips

and putting those on YouTube shorts.

And thank you to our listeners and
subscribers for continuing to share

and watch and download and subscribe
and, and talk and even reach out.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320: Yeah,
that's really how podcasts grow is

people tell other people about them.

So if you like this one, tell
your friends today I'm excited.

Cause we've we've kind of.

Set ourselves up for being like the
authorities on different aspects of the

filmmaking process inadvertently or not
We had a pitch episode recently that has

gotten a lot of good feedback And so today
we thought about focusing on fundraising.

This is probably the number one topic I
get requests of how do you do fundraising?

How do you raise money for your projects?

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319: And
this, I'm excited about this episode

because it comes at a good time.

I mean, we're kind of
following along our own path.

To, you know, starting our next
film, you know, hopefully season

three, we'll get into pre production,
but yeah, fundraising is kind of

this ugly necessary requirement.

Any filmmaker is going to have
to go through in order to be

able to make a living doing this.

And.

So there's a lot to talk about
and a lot to unpack and a

lot of mistakes to be made.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320: So kind
of, if you're following the path that

we've laid out over the last few episodes,
like you come up with an idea or maybe

you have a number of ideas that have
been sitting in a drawer on your desk or

in a folder and now you've picked one.

Or a multiple that you want to go
out into the marketplace for and shop

around this time to find investors,
not necessarily to find distribution or

to find the audience, but you we've, I
think someone on a, in an earlier episode

mentioned different types of audiences.

And this is like the first one, which
is your investors, the people that are

going to buy in at the earliest stage.

Give you the money you need in order to
finance the production and hopefully the

marketing and distribution of the film.

And so how do you do that?

Like, that's what today is about.

We've got a few ideas and these are
based on both of us raising money for

multiple projects over our careers.

And so we have some experience
doing this and we're gaining more

with each time that we go out to
the marketplace and raise money.

So we're in it as well.

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319:
I think Darren, I think that there's

a lot to talk about there as far as
identifying who to talk to and then

also knowing what to raise, how much to
raise and again, what your project is.

So hopefully these episodes of season
two have Have helped like get us to this

point where we now have a pitch deck.

We've kind of refined our pitch.

We know what we're talking.

We know what we're essentially
selling or going to create.

And now it's, yes, it's a matter
of inviting the right people on

board, whether that's a network
or an independent investor or.

You know, your friends and family.

let's talk about all of that.

Do we want to address movies first?

I mean, I know we talk about
movies sometimes on this

podcast because we love movies.

That's what this is.

We certainly don't want to derail
what we're doing, but man, we've

seen some good movies lately.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320: Yeah,
I think we've sufficiently hooked the

listener and so they can skip to the next
chapter if they want to, but yeah, movies

are in full, like, full bore right now.

There's so many great movies that
are out and that are coming out.

I've seen probably the most
movies in November than I've

seen in the last six months.

So I saw like four movies in two
weeks between the week before

and the week of Thanksgiving.

What?

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319:
jealous but I'm, I'm just

only a little bit behind you.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320:
Yeah, that's okay.

I used to be in the cadence of like
every Friday we would, if we had

all of our projects done when my old
business partner, Alan and I were

working together, we would just say,
look, everything's done for the week.

It's 12 o'clock on Friday.

Let's go catch a movie at 1230.

And then we'd be home by the time
our kids were home and it worked out

great, but not in that cadence anymore.

There's too much to do on
the fundraising forefront.

So I've been doing that
more than watching movies.

But one that I loved cause there's a
lot of big movies out and they're great.

Like gladiator two was awesome.

Monotwo was fine.

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319: Wicked.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320:
I haven't seen wicked.

We're going to Thursday, but juror number
two, have you seen juror number two?

Oh

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319: night
and I, as a member of the producers

guild, I get these screeners and I'm,
I love it and it's so fun to sit down

and watch a movie at home, but, so I
didn't get a chance to see it in the

theaters, but my goodness, I could not
wait to talk to somebody who had seen it.

And so I'm so glad you have.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320: man,
that's, that's my kind of movie, like

a slow burn where, you know, from
the, the inciting incident, as soon

as that happened in that movie, I
knew I was in good hands with Clint

Eastwood because it was so good.

And the reveal was so unexpected.

Like it was, it was not
projected or telegraphed at all.

You just kind of.

You felt the reveal in the same way,
in the same time as the character.

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319: Yeah.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320:
It was so good.

, garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319: it's
hard to talk about without spoiling it.

And so we will not spoil it.

Clint Eastwood directed
starring Nicholas Holt.

And just this presents this incredible
moral dilemma that I, I agree with you.

I just love those slow burns
and there wasn't anything Fancy.

There wasn't a lot of spectacle.

It was just a well made film.

You know, Clint Eastwood is what, 94 now?

This is probably, they say
this is probably his last film.

Warner Brothers put this out in
theaters last month and really didn't

do much with it as far as advertising
or promoting or anything like that.

So find it and watch it and process.

It's such a great film.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320:
The thing that I love about that

is it's a movie that I don't
want to say anyone could make.

But you could make that
same movie on a budget.

You could make that movie for 150, 000.

You wouldn't have Name actors, you
wouldn't have the same production value,

but there weren't visual effects in that.

There weren't, I mean,
there were special effects.

There was some blood and there was
some car incident, like car crashes

or car screeches or whatever.

But like overall, that's a movie
that could have been an Indy by

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319:
very close attention to that, yeah.

And even the, even this car, car, you
know, incidents were mostly off screen.

They were just suggested and, and,

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320:
sound effects.

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319: effect.

I just thought we, yeah, there is no
reason that somebody couldn't make this.

Film with, you know, the resources
that they have available to them

on their phone and stuff like that.

You know, I certainly don't want to speak
poorly of the production quality because

it was very well made and, and they
had a, they had name actors throughout.

But the story that he, they
found such a story that was

so accessible and just doable.

And we didn't get with
the spectacle of things.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319:
yeah, on the other side, it's no wicked,

you know, wicked is just incredible.

And that's what people
are loving about wicked.

So there's room for all of that.

So yeah, if you, if you can, if
you have the budget do it, but if

you don't have a budget now that
that's no longer an excuse, you can

make a great courtroom drama, That
still is just totally captivating.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320: Yeah.

The, the estimated is that it was a 30 to
35 million budget, which, which is outside

of the realm of an Indy in my mind.

Like

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319:
Or that film.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320: For
juror number two, I see 30, I see 35.

So it's somewhere in that area.

IMDb has it as an estimated 30 million.

You could do that for three,
you could do it for 300, 000.

That's not to discount the movie.

What I think it does is
it shows what you get.

When you get a name director and a name
and name actors, JK Simmons is in it.

Nicholas holds in it.

Like it's a really great cast
and everyone pulls their weight.

It's so good.

But there's a version of that.

Like, I don't know why this is
sticking out as the thing I want

to talk about, but like, it just.

Shows that the power of the
story is accessible to anybody.

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319: Yeah.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320: that's,
that's exciting for indie filmmakers.

So let's check it out on
streaming when it's on streaming.

I don't think it's in theaters anymore.

It only made like nine or 10 million
in theaters, which is unfortunate.

They kind of just, yeah, dumped it
into theaters, which it deserved.

More I think it could have been
a 80 or 90 million dollar take

because it's a really good movie

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319: Yeah.

Well we can segue from that.

You know, that is
directed by and produced.

It says right there in the first card
that comes up is produced and directed.

By Clint Eastwood.

Now he's obviously a name
director, obviously, know, been

around for, oh, on so much.

And what my favorite Clint Eastwood
story and the segues into raising money.

I'm going to get into that is Oscar night.

the, what was it 97 or whatever
when Million Dollar Baby, I guess

it's more recent than that, Million
Dollar Baby, wins best picture.

So Clint Eastwood directs Hillary
Swank in this boxing movie.

Morgan Freeman's in it and he
stands up to accept his Oscar.

Best Picture and in his speech, you
can go back and watch it, he talks

about, he, he says, please keep
giving these little films a chance.

Like he's talking about
fundraising for his next films.

And this is Clint Eastwood,
That is, Asking for funds and

he's just made the best picture.

So what we do as filmmakers, as far as
fundraising is part of the gig, right?

That's just, if we're going to produce
movies, there is no way around that.

We're going to be fundraising

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320: Oh, yeah,
and you don't have to be he's the 12th

highest grossing director In the world.

So you don't have to be Clint Eastwood,
but even the 12th highest grossing

director in the world still has to
have that kind of mindset around it.

So why don't we dive in?

We've got at least three things
that we want to talk about.

And the first is kind of
pre fundraising, right?

Before you start making
calls, before you start taking

lunches, before anything else.

You want to have some
sort of tracking sheet.

I call it a tracking sheet.

I think you have a different name, but
the idea is that you have a place where

you can store all of the information.

of the people you're going
to be reaching out to.

So my tracking sheet very
simply has across the top.

These are the columns, name,
phone number, email address.

What's their company?

What's their industry?

And who did I get an intro from?

I like tracking that because
I want to say thank you.

And sometimes I'll buy people a gift card
to a restaurant or I've bought people

500 gift cards in the past to Apple.

Like I've, if people connect you to money,
you should take care of them and make

sure they know that you appreciate it.

And then I have kind of a, where
are they at in the process?

So have they been contacted?

Have they received a pitch deck?

Do we have an appointment set up?

Have I, have I pitched them in a meeting?

And then what was the result?

You know, and I've got some dropdowns
of like, are they going to, are

they in, are they a bridge, which
we'll talk about in a minute?

Are they out?

Are they not now?

And then have they committed
and have they closed?

And then I have notes and
follow up and stuff like that.

So let's, I know you do a similar thing
or you at least follow the same principle.

Let's talk about how do you do it?

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319:
very similarly.

I mean, you've almost just
read my, my I call mine an

investor blue planner tracker.

And it just helps me again.

know that we're going to be
talking to a lot of people.

Like the question is, why do
you need a tracking sheet?

Just go, you know, talk
and whoever responds.

And I've, I've, I've kept my
tracking sheet for all of my

films, you know, so I've got from,
you know, Sarah tough approach.

I've got, if I highlight it, I spoke
to 17 potential investors that, that

are at least on the tracking sheet.

Right.

And they only are on the tracking sheet.

If.

like some sort of invitation made.

Hey, can we set up a meeting?

Can we set up a launch or can I take you?

So 17 potential investors and ended
up raising money from five of them.

So I can go back to all, you
know, all seven of my films.

And these are the people I've talked to.

And some names appear on the blue
planner multiple times for multiple

films and others, you know, others.

I've just been involved in
a couple and then you know,

move on to different things.

But yes, it's important to track
because there will be, you know,

15, 20, 30 names per project.

And a lot, most of those are going
to be no, but I think it's important

to maintain a relationship with
them even after the movies are out.

You're going to email and say, Hey, you
know, thanks for letting me take you

to lunch or thanks for letting me talk.

I'd love to invite you to the movie
and know, still be a part of it.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320: Yeah.

So you highlighted something
interesting, which is how many people

are you expected to talk to, which
I think is a good prior to reaching

out to people thing to think about.

So if you need to raise, let's
just use a million dollars

as kind of our target, right?

So that's a lot for some people and
it's not very much for other people.

So let's just use that as
kind of our number that we're

raising for these examples.

Okay.

So you're raising a million dollars.

How many people is that?

Is that one person giving
you a million dollars?

Is it 10 people giving you a
hundred thousand on average each?

What does that look like?

Because the more investors you need,
the more people you need to talk to.

And I, I was actually shocked
that you only had 17 people.

That you talk to like that to me
seems so low, which means you had

a really compelling project and
you've targeted the right people.

So we should talk about those things.

But my recommendation to everyone I
talk to is like, you're going to need

to talk to at least a hundred people.

Minimum.

And that's, man,

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319:
and yeah.

And if you're looking at a million dollar
budget versus a hundred thousand dollar

budget, then yes, I think the number
of people you need to talk to goes up.

You look at Saratov and that
budget was only 125, 000.

So the ratio works out.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320:
well, and well done again.

Like I, I'm sure I've said this to you
in the past, but you did a lot for 125

K and it was a very successful movie.

So I think you want to at least
have the idea of I'm going

to reach a hundred people.

And do you want to do that in a week
or a month or six months or a year?

Like how long is it going to
take you to find those people?

And it can't just be that these are
a hundred people you sent a DM to.

I mean, you need to like
pitch a hundred people.

Like,

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319:
that, yeah.

And that, that they had to even to get on
the list of, Hey, I'm going to track this.

It had to be like, Hey, they took
a meeting or something like that.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320: yeah

sent,

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319:
do, I could probably do a better job.

I probably should put everybody's
name, you know, Hey, send a DM.

And no response or just a no thank you.

At least I should probably track that.

So I don't do that again.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320:
I don't know.

I don't track the people that I've
done an initial message outreach to.

Because to me, that's not real until
they respond positively or I get an intro

to somebody or I've met them in person
and they're like, yeah, let's chat.

Then I'll put them on the sheet.

So I know that I'm not going to drop
the ball when it comes to following up

with them and checking in with them.

So, I mean, literally yesterday I
was in this sheet for three hours,

following up with the 23 people
that are currently on it and saying,

Hey, hope you had a good holidays.

I'd love to meet up this week.

You know, or there were two that I'd
already pitched and I said, Hey, would

it be crazy to think that this is an
awesome opportunity and it would be

so much fun to have you in the fund.

And both of them responded positively.

They're like, actually,
we're talking about it.

So thanks for following up
and we'll get back to you.

You know, it's an answer,
but not an answer.

And I was like, great.

We're we'll talk about those things
as well as we get later on when

you're actually pitching people.

But we talked about that
two episodes ago too.

So

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319:
is track your people, right?

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320:
track your people.

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319:
some sort of way to track it.

A Google sheet, whatever it
is, spreadsheet, blue planner.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320: Yeah.

And update.

One of the important things to update
is like, when did you last talk to them?

And if it's been more than a week, you
should be, you should be touching base

with people every week at minimum.

In my opinion, if you're, if you're
serious about fundraising, there needs

to be a sense of urgency about it.

And if you wait three weeks and
you go, Hey, I'm just checking in.

How are you doing?

That's not an urgent thing.

Like you want it to feel
like this is happening now.

And if they don't pay
attention, they might miss out.

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319:
What are some ways I agree?

What are some ways that you
have created that urgency?

I have a couple of ways that come to mind.

How have you created that for people?

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320: Yeah, we.

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319:
coming across as like, just give me,

I don't know why we want to fast.

Just give me,

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320:
Well, part of it is the, the

framing of the whole conversation.

I am raising money and I'm
looking to get all the commitments

in by the end of December.

Oh, okay.

I get it.

You're actively raising right
now and you want it done in

the next three to four weeks.

Cool.

If that timeline doesn't work for them,
if they're like, Oh man, follow up with me

in six months, or now's not a good time.

I, it can sound cold, but like,
I don't want to spend time with

them if they're not potentially
even able to invest right now.

So that setup, the framing of the whole
conversation, Hey, I'm reaching out,

I'm raising money for X, Y, Z project.

And I'm looking to connect
with people this month.

Cause I'm putting the whole thing
together by the end of December.

Well, if they respond with do
thanks so much for thinking about

me, but now's not a great time.

They're not even on my list.

I'm not going to follow up with it or
I'll update the list and saying not yet

because that's one of my drop downs.

So the framing of it I think is paramount.

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319: yeah.

I've used deadlines, but not only just
like an end of year deadline, but you

know, production, like, Hey, we're
doing a movie that is shot in the fall.

And so we need to, we are raising money
and the final collection date or a

collection date is, you know, July 30th.

Is that, would you be available
for a meeting or whatever it is?

I guess we've already had that
conversation about giving dates,

but if we don't reach our deadline,
then we don't do production.

And so that's something that
creates a level of urgency.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320:
Yeah, that's part of the framing.

I, I heard or read a great email.

So I'm just going to read this
out because it's so great.

And I think some of the
framing is in there.

The subject line gives some context.

I'm a four time film producer
raising for X, Y, Z project.

So and so sent me or would
love to connect, right?

It's just in the subject line.

Cause some of the people you're going
to talk to are very busy people.

I'm gonna just read this real quick
and maybe I can even copy paste it,

put it in the show notes or something.

Hi so and so, I'm an independent
film producer based in Utah with four

features under my belt, two of which
were just in theaters in fall of 2024.

Okay, this is a person worth listening
to, at least to hear what they say.

That's enough to get them
to read the next sentence.

I'm seeking investment for XYZ project,
a one line detail about the project.

I'm attaching a short pitch deck
with an overview of the project and

would love to discuss it with you.

My cell is numbers who on your
team should I coordinate with to

schedule a brief zoom or phone call.

That's the email.

That's like a cold email, but
think of the framing there.

Like this is happening now.

I probably could even put more in there.

Like I'm raising this month.

I'm, I'm doing it by the end of December.

That's not in there, but this is
more of a template that I can use

anytime instead of in December.

So I would probably add that in the email.

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319:
Yeah, that's nice.

I mean, and everybody's going to have
their own approach in their own way.

But, and, and certainly not
everybody's going to be able to

say, Hey, I've had, you know, I've
done four films or whatever it is.

And so I think you, you really do a good
job of highlighting who you are and your

selling points and then being very direct.

I think that's awesome.

that says a lot.

It's important, I think,
not to dance around.

Don't be afraid of talking about money.

That is such a It's a
delicate, you know, thing.

It's like, oh, well, how
much are you raising?

Oh, I don't know.

I don't want to I don't
want to ask for too much.

That doesn't make a good producer.

Like, a producer has to be comfortable
having those conversations.

Like, that is the thing.

We are raising 300, 000 for a feature
that we're going to film in Africa.

And,

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320:
That should be a line in your email.

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319:
Starts in chunks of 20,

000 or, or whatever it is.

You know, it's like we are
looking for five investors for

our raise of a million dollars.

Would you consider being
one of those investors?

Oh, yes or no.

Like that's easy.

And now I can talk about money.

I don't have to him haul around
you know, and dance around

the subject of what that is.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320: Exactly.

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319: Those
conversations that you now are having at

the table are going to be about, money.

People are going to want to know how
they're going to make their money

back or where their money is going.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320:
Yeah, that's so good.

All right.

So everybody write those
down, copy them, use them.

This is great.

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319:
box there for a second.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320:
No, I love it.

Okay.

So you've done that, right?

So you've got your
tracking sheet built again.

This is not, you don't
need software for this.

You don't need to pay 10 bucks,
20 bucks a month for some app.

Just put it in a spreadsheet and
keep track of the people that you're

reaching out to and talking to and
where they're at in the process.

So step two, I, this is again, maybe
more of a mindset thing, but I like

the idea of finding the leverage.

And so similar in our pitching
of like, it's going to take you a

hundred cold DMS to find one person
who's going to, you know, receive

a pitch or take a pitch from you.

It kind of is the same in fundraising.

Like a cold message is kind of the,
the lowest form of You spending

your time, like the lowest leverage.

So I like looking for high
leverage ways to spend my time.

And one of the best that I've found is
to find what, what I call and what have,

what others have called bridge connectors.

or bridge investors or bridge people,
meaning who has the people, who has the

audience or the network or the friend
group of the people that I want to

talk to for this for this fundraise.

So if I need to talk to a bunch of angel
investors, people that invest 25 to a

hundred thousand dollars in projects,
well, who already has a list or a group?

Or connections to a
bunch of angel investors.

I would rather spend an hour finding
one person who can connect me to five

or 10 or 50 people than spending that
hour DMing those 50 people on LinkedIn.

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319: Yeah.

Yeah.

That's, that's good.

I could be better about that.

You, you are, you're, you're very
good at networking and I've attended

some of those events with you Yeah,
you identify those bridge people

and you do a great job at that.

that's a good tip.

I don't have any notes on that

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320: Yeah.

So

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319: doing

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320:
do you implement this?

I think is the next part.

And one is like, okay,
you can just look at.

LinkedIn is a powerful place.

So I'm going to recommend everybody
that's trying to raise money, get on

LinkedIn and spend some time there, but
you could identify, you can literally

go on LinkedIn and type in, in the
search bar, angel investor within

a second degree connection of you.

And you'll probably get two
or 3000 people that pop up.

So what you want to look at is
not how do I DM 2000 people?

Are there names that pop up that
are like shared connections?

So if you keep seeing the same person,
like, Oh man, Garrett knows Jeremy

and Mark and Lucas and Amy and Judy.

And like, if, if I'm connected to you and
you're connected to five people that are

on my list, man, the first thing I need
to do is talk to you about those people.

Hey, I'm raising money.

I would love, I noticed that
you're connected to these

five people on LinkedIn.

You know, how, how strong
of a connection is that?

Are these people you could
potentially introduce me to?

Right.

That requires that I have that kind of
relationship with you, which I do, I'm

not going to message somebody that I
became a connection on LinkedIn in 2009

and say, Hey buddy, can you introduce
me to your 10 rich friends on LinkedIn?

That doesn't work.

You have to have actual relationships.

So that's one.

But the second, which is also really,
really powerful is the idea of events.

And so if you don't have any
networking events, you can create one.

I did this in October.

I took a list of 90 film producers
that I was already kind of managing

a Utah film producers group.

And I said, well, let me, let me
invite 30 investors or startup

people or CEOs that are in tech.

And let's get these groups together.

And we did that.

We had about 65 people show up.

They were probably 15 or 20 on the outside
of the film industry and the other 45

or whatever were inside the industry.

And we had a great event, right?

So if you don't have events to go
to, you can create them yourself.

But I've been to half a dozen events
in the last three weeks that are

literally put on for investors, like
investor groups, angel groups startup

investors, founders and funders, like
all these different types of events

that are just happening because we're
in Utah and there's a lot of that

energy and that stuff that happens here.

So I can go to an event, but rather
than just showing up and then saying

hi to the person I'm sitting next
to, what I do is spend an hour or two

getting to know the person hosting
the event because they're the bridge.

So I'll spend an hour or go to an
event that I know this person's going

to be at and I'll get to know them
so that when I come to their event,

they go, Oh, Darren, you're here.

Hey, you should talk to.

So and so boom.

Now I'm like we talked
about in the pitch episode.

I'm at the same level as the
person running the event.

I'm a friend of theirs that they are
now introducing me to, and this works.

Every time, like every event I've
been to, I've met at least one

person that the host introduced
me to that led to a conversation.

And so in my mind, the, the hour, two
hours, three hours, whatever the total

time doing that is way more effective
than if I had tried to DM that same person

on LinkedIn, rather than going from a
bridge to an introduction to a meeting.

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319:
Again, this is all new to me.

And, and I, I'm, so I'm
just absorbing it in.

went to LinkedIn while you
were talking about and did

that typed in angel investor.

And in my first and second, whatever
it is, levels of connection,

there, there's a full page.

There are pages

People that, that fit what
you've just described.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320: So
I would have, I would avoid, or I

would Edmonish, I would, I would tell
people that listening, don't just

take that list and start DMing them.

Take the time to find a bridge, find
an introduction, find a way to make

a connection that isn't directly.

Will you give me money?

Is the subtext.

So.

Don't do that.

Find a bridge, find a connector that
is leverage that will make it so

much more effective to have meetings
that, that end up in investment

because you've already got the stamp
of approval from someone they trust.

I think one introduction is worth
a hundred cold DMs, if not more.

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319: Yeah.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320: Okay.

So

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319:
sorry, go ahead.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320:
no, you're good.

What's what's next.

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319: I
don't know if it's going to shift gears

or if it's, if it's next on the outline.

And so I want to talk about the
mindset of what we are offering

and having confidence in that.

So if that, if that goes
now, great, I'll do that.

If you have another step
in your outline, I'll wait.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320:
I love that.

I love that.

Why don't you start and I've got thoughts.

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319: What
spurred that is the, you know, you've

suggested, you said, you know, the
conversation is, will you give me money?

You know, and, and we say that
kind of lightheartedly, but

because that's what it feels like.

We are coming to the table with like,
Hey, can I take you lunch to ask you

to give me money or whatever it is?

Can, let's talk about this film or this
great idea so that you will give me money.

And I think that where in doing this
eight times raising money for eight

different feature films and then a number
of different projects, my paradigm had

to shift and say, look, are creating
an opportunity for somebody make

money or to have a unique experience.

You know, the, the end
result is to make a movie.

side effect might be that they make money.

So we have to be, I have to often
remind myself how great this is.

Is that we are like the
product that we are pitching.

We are reaching out to an angel investor
or somebody that wants a new experience.

And again, if we make it about
ourselves, will you give me money?

Can we do this again, please?

Can I do that?

Then I think it's we're at a disadvantage.

We say, look at this amazing fund I have.

And this is a unique experience
and a unique opportunity.

at these fun photos we've had on set.

This is what I am selling.

Right.

And we'll, would you like to
join us in this experience?

Here's how we make money doing
it, this is the experience too.

So that's an important mindset to have
now when we're reaching out to people.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320: Yeah.

And there's a, there's a trick or
a strategy you can implement here

as well in the idea of you kind
of want to stress test your pitch.

You want to know that it's
a good investment, right?

That the people you're going to
ultimately meet with are going to respond

positively to the thing you're presenting.

And one way you can do that is talk to
investors and say, Hey, this is a project

I'm going to be fundraising on soon.

I would love to get your feedback
on it to see what you think.

And that's a really easy way in for people
who are a little bit hesitant to start

talking about money and asking for money.

We'll just ask for feedback.

And then if the conversation goes well
and they go, wow, this looks really cool.

Really fun.

You've put together a great deck.

I get it.

I see what you're doing.

That's very cool.

Then it's a really easy opp
opportunity to say, well, Okay.

I mean, I wasn't planning on asking you
this, but you know, would, is it crazy to

think that you'd be interested in this?

And if they say no, then
you've got an opening, right?

And you can say, well, awesome.

You know, what would, what
would that look like for you?

Or what, what would you be interested in?

They might even be first money in.

So I do this on a lot of projects
where ultimately down the

line, I might be asking for.

A partnership or a, an investment,
but I'll just go to people who I know

would be a perfect fit and say, can
I just get your feedback on this?

I I'm not raising money yet.

I'm not, this hasn't, I haven't launched
this yet, but I would like your feedback.

And what you end up with a lot of
times is partners or people who can

support you in some way or another.

And that's a really cool strategy to
implement that also helps you stress test

the pitch to make sure that you're You're
going out to the market with something

that is actually viable as opposed to
a passion project that has no nothing

interesting about it to an investor.

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319: Yeah.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320: Awesome.

I love that mindset.

I think too, I wanted to
throw in this thought.

I was talking with an
investor the other day.

He's a gentleman who has, he
raised a fund, like a venture fund.

From a bunch of banks.

And so like, he's just a dude
that knows how to raise money and

has done it and he's successful.

Right?

And so I was talking to him and I, I said
the phrase, well, I don't want to be too

opportunistic or seem too opportunistic.

He's like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

You have to be opportunistic.

You have to find every little
wedge gap that you can find.

And exploit it.

You have to be opportunistic.

That is the whole game.

And that was a nice reframe for me
of like, Oh, I'm being too hesitant,

too timid about this process.

And I need to be bold and I need to go
in and be confident in what I'm doing

and know that it's a good investment.

That's a sound thing that it's
been stress tested and I'm seeking

and creating opportunities.

I'm being very opportunistic,
but in the best way possible.

So that's a nice reframe for people to

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319: Yeah.

That's such an important mindset.

And again I think the reality of
independent film is that, and I

have to say this so carefully, that
it is not a competitive investment

with, it's not a safe investment.

very high risk investment.

That being said, it is a unique
and incredible opportunity, right?

And so.

I think that there's those two level
things like being opportunistic or

being focused on the investment.

That's great.

Recognize, be confident in the investment,
I, I love when people ask me like, well,

how do you, how do you make money in film?

And I mean, that just opens the door to
like talk about these things and I could

talk about that all day long, I'm also
very, very transparent is, If we're not

a real estate, we don't compete with
real estate, if we're raising money

from banks, that's just not our thing.

And Darren, you're, I'm, I may be
just speaking from my own experience.

You're raising a fund,
which is entirely different.

I think, which potentially does have that
potential as being a good investment.

One off films are an incredible
opportunity to make a movie

and they might make money.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320:
well said.

I, I think that's a great segue
into kind of the last bit.

But you already talked about.

It's the mindset piece.

But I want to take what you just
said and put And apply that as well,

because I think a lot of people look
at, others who are raising money

and go, man, how are they doing it?

And skipping over the fact that
you've raised money eight times,

you've done eight movies, you've had
movies in theaters, you've done this.

There's a trajectory of your career that
people can look at and go, Oh, he did 125,

000 movie and then a 200 500 and then a
million and then a 2 million and like.

You can see the trajectory.

So it makes sense.

If you go out for your next project and
say, this is a two and a half million

dollar budget, people aren't going
to go, what are you talking about?

Like it makes sense because you've drawn
a line with your career and they're

not just investing in a single project.

They're investing in.

The trajectory that you've
already been on and they can

see where that trajectory leads.

So this idea of dots versus lines, that
was something that someone shared at

one of these events I went to and they
said, investors don't invest in dots.

They invest in lines.

And I was like, what is he talking about?

And then he explained it.

I was like, Oh, that's a really cool idea.

It's a lot harder to raise money for dots,
meaning single projects, one off projects.

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319: Yeah.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320: And so,
If you've got a single project you're

raising for your first short film or
your first feature film and you don't

have anything that came before it.

That's a harder sell.

It just is compared to a producer
who's done four movies in the last

three years and two of them were
just in theaters and three out of

the four have been in theaters and
like successful outcomes all around.

That's a lot easier to go and raise money
for the next thing because I have these

lines, these dots that are connected
into lines that are an upward trajectory

and you can see where it's going next.

And so what I would recommend
is create some dots, like go out

and do some short films for free.

Like don't raise money.

Just go do one or two for free and put
them in festivals and win some awards

and get good feedback and get a million
views on YouTube or whatever it looks

like to show that like, here's where
I've been and here's where I am today.

And this is where I'm going.

And then investors can see a line.

And go, Oh, great.

I'm investing in someone who's
going to be going that way.

Whether or not I invest like that
train is headed to that destination.

Do I want to get on that train or not?

And the idea of the train is a good one
because if it's a moving train, that's

just like stopping to pick up passengers
and like everybody get on, we're

leaving in two minutes and like, you go,
that's very different than, Hey guys.

So I want to build a train and
I've already got the wheels on the

tracks, but I need every other part.

And then once we've built the train,
I'm going to need you to get behind the

train and push it because there's zero
momentum and there's zero resources

and there's nothing built yet.

Which one is an easier sell?

That's the difference between dots
and lines and investors rarely

want to help you build the train
and then get behind and push it.

So you got to do some of that work
yourself before you start raising money.

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319:
An important aspect of

that is to not give up.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320: Yeah,

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319: Darren,
you talked about doing these short films

and then the 125, 000, then a 250, 000.

And that is, I mean, that
is a, that's a way to do it.

It's a track record.

Very, very you know, it's been a long slog
and for which I'm very, very grateful.

But but I have to remind
myself not to give up.

Like And, and yes, those dots lead
to lines like they are going to

It's kind of all the principles that
we've talked about on the podcast

about building your audience, right?

Even on those first, you know, films
where I'm doing short films and getting

my friends together to, to make a
movie and we don't have any money

or I'm putting my own funds into it.

I'm still building and.

audience like building a following and
having those meetings with investors,

you know I'm not doing a short film
without having a feature film script.

So when somebody says,
oh, what do you know?

Oh, you're making a
movie or whatever it is.

I could say yeah, we've got a feature
and Our goal is to do this next year.

Can we come to you when
we're looking for money?

Yes or no, that's fine No, okay.

Great.

Can we add you to our list?

We'll just keep you posted on
projects we're doing Yeah, 100%.

We're building an audience
that helps us when we do want

to raise money, we can do it.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320:
yeah, that's, it's a great place to

end on, which is Don't give up, like
keep going until it happens, right?

And it, I share this story all the time.

It took me 12 years to produce
my first feature film, 12 years.

And I owe a lot of the success of that.

The fact that I got hired to the reality
that I just didn't give up for 12 years.

I kept at it.

I kept trying to do projects.

I kept taking gigs.

I kept honing my craft as a
producer until it happened.

And the, the line, the
trajectory changed at that point.

Now I'm on a different trajectory.

So it's, it's something that you just
have to say, I'm going to keep going

until I have it, until it happens,
until the outcome has been achieved.

And I don't know how to give people that
other than say, you have to have that.

That's required.

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319:
It's tough.

Somebody chatted with
me the the other week.

they just graduated from school
and they're coming down and just

kind of moved into my neighborhood.

And so they recognized me and stopped
me and said, wait, aren't you,

can we talk and chatted with them?

And they said, you know, how do you,
how do we get like, What's your story?

How do you get from here to there?

everybody's is going to be different.

But that is the, that, yeah,
that element of, if you're in

it for the long haul, great.

It's a, it's a fun and amazing
career with tons of opportunities.

give up.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320:
And, and one other thought for that,

because I know that there are actors
and directors and writers and producers

that are listening to this podcast.

I honestly think it's harder to
raise money as an actor or raise

money as a director for a project.

I think you have to.

Let me say that differently.

I think it's harder to get to the
point where you're working on projects

you want to work on as an actor and
a director than it is as a producer.

And so part of the mindset is thinking
like a producer and taking on that

role and responsibility and saying,
okay, this project is going to happen.

Not because I found a producer
who wants to help me raise money.

It's because I took on the
responsibility of being the

producer and raising the money.

And so now I am a producer.

And I think that is a shortcut.

To get where you want to go
faster by not waiting around

for someone else to help you.

If you take on that responsibility,
well, you just a, you doubled your

revenue because you're not splitting
the producing partner, but also you

are taking control of the outcomes
that you want instead of waiting for

people to give you those outcomes.

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319:
Amazing.

Darren, what a discussion.

I, I'm motivated.

Like I'm motivated now I've
got a whole page of LinkedIn

that I got to directly DM.

Is that right?

Did I understand that correctly?

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320: yeah, go
back and listen to the podcast, but yes,

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319:
No, but I am and it's tough.

And every week I look forward to our
conversations because it, it reminds me of

the just step by step process and you just
take the steps and something will happen.

You don't know how it always
does, but something will happen.

daren-smith_1_12-03-2024_101320: amazing.

Hopefully that's helpful.

Please let us know your thoughts and what
questions do you have from this episode?

Hit us up, head over to three coin pro.

com slash podcast.

You can ask questions there.

You can find us online.

We love hearing your questions.

So we'll be back next
week with another one.

Thanks, Garrett.

garrett-batty_1_12-03-2024_101319:
Take care.

Thank you for listening to this
episode of Truly Independent.

To join us on the journey,
be notified of and ask us

questions about today's episode.

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Thanks for listening.

And we'll see you next week.

Our intro and outro music is
election time by Kjartan Abel.