Truly Independent: Demystifying the Indie Film Journey

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040:
want to give you like eight things

that are a part of a business plan.

You kind of pick and choose depending on
what your investor needs, but generally

you'll want these, these eight things.

Number one is an executive summary.

This is Truly Independent, a show that
demystifies the indie film journey by

documenting the process of releasing
independent films in theaters.

Each week, Garrett Batty and I,
Darren Smith, will update you

on our journey, bringing guests
to share their insights into the

process and answer your questions.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040:
Darren, how are you?

Good to see you.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040:
You too, man.

I'm great.

Uh, I'm, I'm coming off
a high of last night.

I did a little guest lecture at the
local university, five minutes from

my house, Utah Valley University.

A friend of ours teaches a producing
class there and asked me to come and

talk to about 15 aspiring filmmakers.

There was one kid there that
had done 56 short films.

In the last five years.

I was like, dude, you're, you're going
to be fine, but it was a ton of fun.

So I'm rolling off of that high.

I'm feeling jazzed today.

I'm excited for what
we're going to talk about.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040: Good.

Well, fantastic.

Uh, it's good to see you.

Welcome listeners to another
episode of Truly Independent.

Darren Smith and I, Garrett Batty, are
doing everything we can to demystify

the independent film experience.

From pitching, to creating,
to distributing, to

actually making the movie.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040:
And, uh, I love doing this.

I love talking about it
every week with you, Darren.

So thanks very much for jumping back on.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040:
Yeah, of course.

Nobody can get on my calendar
Tuesday mornings because that's

when we record the podcast.

So it's blocked out.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040:
that's right.

Uh, yeah.

and I am coming off of a high today
because today is officially, we're

recording this on February 11th.

Today is officially Faith of Angels
release day on Angel Studios.

So for all those who are, who are familiar
with Angel Studios and the incredible,

uh, independent film distributor
that they are, um, can now log on to

their site, Angel Studios, and watch
Faith of Angels as a guild member.

I think it's a subscription model.

It's an incredible model.

They're seeing amazing growth right now.

And, uh, Faith of Angels is
going to be a part of that.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040:
Yeah, super excited.

I'm ready for the billboard
at university mall.

That says number one movie on
the platform, faith of angels.

Go watch it.

Now,

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040:
That's right.

Yeah.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040:
maybe we'll just need to mock it

up and put it on the internet.

And then people will
believe that it happened

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040:
Yeah, there you go.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040:
marketing.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040: no,
that is not a tactic we're going to use.

Um, truth and honesty and marketing.

That's what we're trying to use.

But, uh, but yeah, so we're very
excited that fate of angels is out.

Um, and about growing the audience.

So we were streaming, we are still
streaming with a living scriptures,

which has an audience of, you
know, so many thousand subscribers.

And now angel is, uh, going
bigger, has a much bigger audience.

then next month we'll make some
announcements about where we're playing.

We've already got that in the works.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040:
Super fun.

It's exciting.

I'm, I'm kind of out of the loop now.

We're not talking about the digital
distribution and other sales of the

movie, but I love the updates and it's
always fun to be like, Ooh, I can go post

about now, and that's another thing that.

Makes us look good as filmmakers, makes
the movie look good, that it's getting

the kind of Demand and traction that
it has and so it's exciting to hear

happy and congratulations on release day

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040:
Thanks man.

Yeah.

Okay, but we're not going to rest.

We're not going to be idle and just
focus on what we've done in the past.

We're continuing to pitch and develop
and, uh, hopefully create more films.

Uh, this week I wanted to talk
about A business plan and what

we need as independent filmmakers
to go into our business plan.

Um, and this comes from a, a kind of a
personal, not personal, not personal,

like, Hey, should I share this?

But just my own experience, uh,
this week, last week, pitching

a lot of different ideas.

Somebody came to me with an idea to
pitch and they said, Hey, can you take

this to, um, some of your distributor
friends and make sure I'll take it.

uh, so I started talking with the
distributor and they came back and said,

you know, it's a great, great idea,
but there's no business model here.

There's no business plan and we
can't really consider the movie

without looking at a business plan.

um, so it makes sense.

I went back to the filmmaker and
said, they, they, they love the idea.

They just want to see the business plan.

And the filmmaker said.

What do I, how do I, what is that?

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

Well, that's, uh, that's good to
know and probably a good topic.

Uh, having done this before,
it's just kind of part of the

nature of when I'm pitching, I
put together all of these things.

And so I was able to help
them put together over the

past week, a business plan.

That will help them pitch.

I wanted to talk about those elements.

What are your thoughts on that?

Darren kind of an overview.

Is that something we should be doing?

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040: Yeah,
it's I I have opinions about business

plans I generally don't make them
until someone asks for them But there

are a lot of filmmakers online that
will tell you it's essential it costs

money You should hire them to do it.

And the incentives are very much in
their favor of like, yeah, the more

I can get filmmakers to believe that
business plans are essential and

required, the more money they can make.

So that's me being a little
cynical, maybe about the whole

industry around business plans.

But to me, it comes down to, is
there a demand for a business plan?

If so, then you should make one and
you should give it to them because

it's something that they need in order
to make progress towards their goals.

Giving you a distribution deal,
buying your movie, investing in

your movie, partnering with you,
whatever it is that you're pitching.

They're essentially
saying, I really like this.

The emotional side of the
buyer has clicked on and said,

yes, this is a good idea.

We should do this.

And then the logical side of the
buyer is going, wait, wait, wait,

wait, wait, we need more details.

We need to know, is there a plan?

How does it make money?

What's the timeline?

Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

And those are the things we're going
to talk about is when we get into

what goes into a business plan.

But to me, I, I don't spend
money creating those up front.

I wait until someone asks me
for them and then I make them.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040: Yeah.

And, and, uh, and I don't, I don't
think your cynicism is unwarranted.

I mean, I think that that's the, uh,
there, you know, anytime somebody is

trying to sell you something like,
Hey, I'm going to sell you my services

to create a business plan, kind of
make sure that there's a need for it.

And maybe even as an independent
filmmaker, somebody with that, of how

do I, I save money wherever I can?

Or, you know, how do I keep this as
contained as I need to contain it until

I can really go out and release it?

Um, plan isn't something, I
agree, isn't something that you

should hire somebody do for you.

I think as a filmmaker, you should
definitely know what you're doing and

know the process of is this movie going
to recoup for the people that I'm going

to, uh, who are for the people that
are going to support me making it,

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040: but to
start spending money on a business plan.

You're right.

I wouldn't, I wouldn't do that.

So hopefully these tips will
allow you as a filmmaker to

create your own business plan.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040: Yeah.

And not to take jobs away from
filmmakers who are creating

business plans for other people.

But, you know, the last time
that I made one, I did it

with Chat GPT and it's great.

And it works and it delivers on
what the investor was looking for.

They're just asking for information.

And so, you know, this speaks to the
context again of like, what is it for?

Well, it's to show them that, you
know, what you're talking about, that

you have a plan that you, when you're
raising money from investors, for

example, your number one responsibility
is to make a return for the investors.

Ideally, you do that by making a really
great movie that makes money regardless.

The number one responsibility is
to get a return for your investors

because that's what you're establishing
with this relationship is, Hey, I

want you to invest in this thing.

And the subtext is I'm going to
help you make more money so you

can do it again in the future,
which is what investors want to do.

They want to keep making money and keep
doing more of that type of investment.

So the business plan exists to show
them that you know how to do that.

And you don't need necessarily to
pay somebody to do it, to make a

20 page document for you, you can
very much get like 80, 90 percent

of the way there with print.

AI tools today.

And that's my little
aside for how to make,

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040:
think it's very relevant.

Uh, my, my, uh, and I agree with
everything you're saying my only comment

on, and maybe this was just a slip of
the tongue and say, um, that, uh, you

know, make a really great movie and.

It'll make money.

And I want to make, and I just, I
know, you know, this, uh, making a

great movie does not guarantee making
money, which is why you, what you

need, what I believe we need to do as
in better filmmakers is make a great

business plan that will make money.

If that business plan is I want
to make a cheap film and take it.

My lights just went out.

So maybe this is a bad idea.

I want to make a cheap film and just
put it on YouTube for streaming.

Honestly, that, that might make you money.

It doesn't have to be a good film.

Plenty of bad movies make money.

Plenty of good movies don't,
but a bad business plan isn't

going to make you money.

So that's where I'm going.

Okay.

So enough of that.

Let's get into it.

Executive summary is, uh, want to
give you like eight things that

are a part of a business plan.

You kind of pick and choose depending on
what your investor needs, but generally

you'll want these, these eight things.

Number one is an executive summary.

This will include, you know,
the film title, the log line,

the, the summary of the plan.

So for X independent film, uh, you
know, I said, this business plan

outlines the financing production and
distribution strategy for this film.

And then what it is, it's a
character driven, independent drama.

Here's the budget range.

We'll be financing it
through these methods.

And this is the unique
selling proposition.

This is why this film is going to work.

So just very nice, you know,
couple of paragraph overview of

your business partners are going
to want to know about this film.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040:
yeah, really great.

And these are things that
are very standard, right?

You can Google this.

You can ask chat GPT.

You can say what goes into a business
plan and it'll give you these

kind of eight standard sections.

So I'm glad we're going
to go through them.

But again, I think it's in
the context of what does the

investor actually want to know?

Do they want to know that
you have a distribution plan?

Do they, are they more interested
in how much money you need and

how you're going to spend it?

What are they interested in the timeline?

Like, what is it that they
are demanding from you?

Not in a demanding way, but like,
what is it that's that, that

they're interested in, what do
they need more information about?

And how do you deliver that
to them in a compelling way?

Ideally, I'd read a lot of business
plans that are just very dry

and very like boring to read.

And I'm like, this isn't exciting.

It should still share some of the
tone and the vibe of the project.

And so if it's a Neo Noir,
can you do it in a cool way?

If it's a, if it's a period piece
like faith of angels, can you do

it in a way that kind of shows?

That you're a creative person
making a business plan.

I know I'm adding an extra layer of
complexity to this, but I love that stuff.

And if it just looks like every
other business plan, I think

there's a missed opportunity there.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040: Okay.

Well, maybe that, maybe that comes through
in your, in the unique selling proposition

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040:
I think so.

I think,

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040:
And this movie is a faith based, you

know, true crime, intrigue, drama.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040:
yeah, yeah.

I mean, we're, if we compare a
pitch deck to a business plan.

A pitch deck is here's what it is.

A business plan is here's how it works.

Here's how we're going to do it.

Right.

But I think there should be a little
bit of, um, connective tissue between

the two, where it feels like they're
part of the same business plan.

They're part of the same creative thought.

And so I'm just adding this extra
layer of complexity to say, there's

an opportunity there that you can.

To make really cool business
plans that align with the other

assets that you've created to get
this movie funded or produced or

distributed or whatever it might

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040: Okay.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040: be.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040:
All right.

Yeah.

And in my experience, I have not
done that with films that I've made

as far as the business plan goes.

These are typically, I mean,
they have the pitch deck.

And that's all the gloss and
glamor and kind of the, the, um,

sexy appeal of the film and then
the business plan says, look.

We are approaching this very methodically.

We have a playbook, we're going to run
it and this is how it's going to work.

And these are people that are looking
at it, that are used to writing large

checks for real estate and other business.

And you know, you might have a glossy
brochure if you're going to buy a piece

of property, but at the end of the
day, you're going to have a contract.

Or a plan or really we're starting
an LLC with each, with each film and

say, this is the executive summary.

This is the LLC that we're starting.

And so in my experience, I've
tried to separate those two and

be very detailed in one and very.

you know, creative the other, Okay.

Number two, film overview.

this would contain your
synopsis, the genre, the tone.

In a similar films and, uh,
not necessarily comp titles.

And Darren, I know you have an
opinion on comp titles, but you

do want similar films and themes.

You want your, the business plan person,
the reader of this, who's like looking

at this from a very technical, um,
know, almost manual approach, um, to

think, okay, this is what, this is what
this film is, is what it feels like.

We want to kind of take the opportunity
of them to create their own vision of it.

Cause I can tell you, it
will never align with yours.

Take that out so that your vision
is very clear as to what this

film is and what the business is.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040: Yeah,
this, this document exists to convey

information and on your behalf, right?

You're saying here's the business
plans and that saves us an hour long

conversation where you're asking me
questions and I'm giving you answers.

You're saying I've already thought
about it and you can read it in

10 minutes or five minutes or
20 minutes or whatever it is.

So.

What is the information
you're trying to convey?

And you're basically saying,
okay, here's what it is.

And if you can do that in a compelling
way, if you can do that in a very

clear way to where now you've given
them your vision of what the film

is, now they're on the same page.

Now they can take the next step.

So it's almost a little bit of a rabbit
hole that you're creating of like,

you need to know this in order to get
to section two, and you need to know

this in order to get to section three,
because you'll want that context of

what the movie is and what it's like
and what it's going to feel like before

you get into budget, before you get
into timeline, before you get into

how the returns in the waterfall work.

So you're thinking of it
a little bit like a story.

You're thinking of it.

What is the reader need to know
first and then second and then

third and then fourth and fifth.

So it's really smart to think of it that
way because it is conveying information

and you've got to do it in a really clear
way because if you start out with the

really, really deep stuff and they're
lacking the context, they're going to go,

this business plan doesn't make any sense.

Even though it does, if you just
kind of reverse the order of things.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040:
Yeah, I agree with that.

You're definitely walking
them through step by step.

Here's what it is.

And then the next step of that would be
this target audience or market analysis.

This is a section that you want in there.

You say, here's our primary
audience for this film.

You know, this film, uh, as mentioned,
this is a faith based, uh, film.

We're looking for faith based
audiences that are looking for

inspirational, thought provoking
storytelling, secondary audience.

You know, if our film sub thread
is this mystery true crime, um,

thriller, faith based thriller,

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040: Nice.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040:
then we want, you know,

that's a secondary audience.

Um, and then you look at, you
also want to list in this section,

the market demand for that.

Like what, what shows, what,
what indicates, what indicators

are there out there that would
justify this film right now?

To say, okay, faith based films are seeing
right now a surge in the box office.

That's why we want to get on this.

And same thing with streaming platforms.

They're, they're very interested
in acquiring faith based content.

therefore it would make
this a good business.

That's our target audience
and market analysis.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040:
I think that's a really

important thing to highlight.

And I see this mistake a lot with
business plans from younger, well, not

even just exclusively young filmmakers.

I see it a lot when people
send me materials and I,

I get to the comp section.

They go, here are some other movies
that are like ours, and here's how

they've done in the marketplace.

And.

Often they pick the best ones, right?

If, if it's a little indie made
in Utah, they're going Napoleon

dynamite and look, it made tens
of millions of dollars in the box.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040: 5
million at the box of, yeah, I cannot

tell you how many investors I've ended the
conversations with potential investors.

Once they bring up Napoleon
dynamite, I love it.

I love the show.

I love the show, but if that's what
they're looking for, um, that's, that's,

they're looking for lightning in a bottle.

I don't play the lottery.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040: Exactly.

So that's from the investor
side, but the filmmakers are the

ones causing that issue, right?

They're saying, here's a movie that's
like ours in genre, budget, production,

value, style, et cetera, tone.

And here's.

The example of two or three other movies
that have done really, really, really

well, like ridiculously well, like a
naturally their breakout successes.

And it's disingenuous, I think, because
it's, it's really not being true to the

marketplace to say, this is what we could
do with our movie, because it has the

same genre and the same budget and the
same, et cetera, what you highlighted

is really smart, which is saying.

These are examples of the existing
demand for movies like this, right?

It's not, you're not saying you're
not putting it in the positioning

of, we're going to make 45
million in the box office as well.

You're saying there were four and
a half million people that went

and saw this movie in theaters.

So that's millions of people
that potentially would want

to see a movie like ours.

I've seen three business plans
already for horror movies.

I don't know why people keep sending me
horror films, but everybody has a horror

and they're sending me terrifier three.

And I'm going, first of all, it's the
third movie in a franchise that has a

long history with a growing audience.

Over the last however many years.

And it was a breakout success.

It made 80 or 90 million in
theaters off of a 2 million budget.

And it's like, you cannot replicate that.

Like you, you can't create a plan
that says this is how we're going

to replicate that with our movie.

And what you could do instead though,
that would actually work is saying, look,

this is a low budget, independent NC 17
horror movie that's going to And almost

10 million people saw it in theaters.

Okay, great.

Now you've shown me there's 10 million
people who enjoy this type of horror film.

Great.

And yours is like that?

Okay, awesome.

That means we could tap
into that existing market.

But the positioning of, we can also
make 80 million in theaters, Is

really not accurate and it's not true.

And I think people need to stop doing it.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040: It's
tough because you do get excited about

it and you want people to get excited
about your, your potential, right?

Um, know, and you, and you
can't, you can't ignore like,

Hey, this really did happen.

And so one of the things that I
typically do is I have my, when we'll

get into my estimates and you say,
look, you have your, you have your

conservative, your target, you know,
your, your, Hey, we succeeded, you know,

maybe those are reverse conservative.

We succeed at, but this is our target.

And then I do, I do build a section
for the home run to say, Hey,

look, these are the home runs.

This is the potential, you can do that,
that's not at all why you're investing,

that's not why I want to meet with you,
because that's, we don't control that.

It's like saying, we're going
to produce a viral video.

you're not.

You're going to produce a video, the
market determines if it goes viral or not.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040:
Yeah, it's so true.

And I love that positioning or that
framing of the conversation, this section

of the business plan to say, look, we've
done our research and we have an idea.

Of what's possible with this film,
given all these different parameters,

budget, cast, genre, writer,
director, marketplace, et cetera.

So that's really smart because why is
an investor reading a business plan?

They want to know, is it possible to put
in a dollar and make two or five or 10?

Because again, an investor wants to
invest in something, not give you money.

That's going to go away
and never be returned.

If they give you a million dollars,
they want that million, And then some

because that means they can do it
again and again and again and again.

They want to invest in
films, not just one film.

So by showing them, Hey, here's
the risk, but here's how we've

kind of covered the downside.

And here's what's possible in the
marketplace based off of really great

research by ideally Some contact that you
have that works at a distribution company.

They're really great people to tap
into to say, Hey, what is the existing

market for these types of films, this
budget, this genre, this audience, et

cetera, et cetera, this type of release
plan, and they can pull actual comps.

And then you can say, look,
here's four other movies that

made between this and this.

We're targeting a conservatively
that we could do this.

And that means.

We break even where it means that
we make X amount of our budget back,

and then we'll make the rest in
digital sales or international or

whatever it is, but you're telling
the investor, you're speaking their

language and saying, we know you want
to put money in and get money out.

Here's how it works.

Here's what we think this movie could do,
and here's our plan to make it happen.

And as long as you do that,
it doesn't necessarily matter.

What the actual numbers are,
whether it's five X or 10 X or a

hundred X on the back end, they just
want to know that there's a plan.

And ideally that there is a way for
them to make multiples on their money.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040: Um,
section four is the production plan.

So once they kind of have the big
overview of like, here's this, and

here's what this movie is, and here's
the potential for it, um, we do want

to give them the production plan.

And I just, I usually keep this very.

and over, uh, uh, light, because we
all know that production can change.

And usually the schedules are

dependent on contingent upon
how much money you've raised

in time for production.

And so I keep this light, but I do
give a budget overview and I say,

okay, this film, the estimated budget
is between, you know, 750 to 850,

000 with an additional 150, 000
raised for reserved for marketing.

Um, I give them a production timeline.

Take a look, pre production needs to
start in Q2 2025, photography will be

in Q3, post production in Q4, right?

And then the festival circuit and
distribution starts Q1 and Q2 2026.

Um, I, I often will go into shooting
locations or suggested shooting

locations based on, incentives and
things, you know, why, why we're likely

to shoot in a certain state or in a
certain city, you know, what advantage

do we have shooting there, whether
it's a tax rebate or a location that

we own or a, you know, an actor that
lives close by or whatever it is.

Um, and then we'll also involve
in this production plan.

We've involved key,
uh, crew and personnel.

We say, look, you know, involved in
this, is this such and such a director,

he or she have directed these previous
films and they've done this much, um, or

this actor has already committed or this
screenwriter has, A history of success.

And, uh, so they're attached.

We don't need to get into people that
they don't know or that aren't, you

know, this is the first time, you
know, unless there's an advantage to

that, um, an investor and as they get
excited about so and so's first, you

know, brother is filming this movie.

Um, Because he owns a camera like so you
want to make sure that those are points

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040: Yeah.

Through the context of this section
is so important because what you

are able to show an investor, a
distribution partner, whatever it is,

is look at how far we've already come.

And look at the momentum that we've
already built for this project.

If you have attachments, if you have
tax incentives, if you have locations,

if you have partners, whether it's
sponsors or distribution partners or

production partners, whatever it is
you're saying to them, the subtext is this

movie is happening with or without you.

So if you want to be a part of this.

It's happening.

We're starting production spring of 2025.

So get on the train or
it's leaving the station.

There's the subtext for that.

That's the context and the framing, which
is really great in a business plan to

be able to show we're making this movie,
but we'd love for you to be involved.

And if you don't want to be, we're talking
to a hundred other people and one of

them is going to say yes at some point.

So it gives a little bit of a time wall to
say you need to make a choice pretty soon.

This isn't something we're
thinking about doing in the future.

I definitely have seen business
plans, which are like very,

very, very early in the process.

And they're saying, give us money now
and we'll figure all this stuff out.

And that's a harder sell to an
investor because they're going,

well, that could take you a year.

That could take you six months.

Why haven't you already
done some of that stuff?

That's free to do like, it's free to
call your friend and say, Hey, I'm

doing, thinking about doing this movie.

Can I attach you as the cinematographer?

Can I attach you as the casting director?

Can I talk to the, the, the local
film commission about, is there

money in the incentive program?

Okay.

Like have those conversations.

Those are free.

It doesn't cost you anything.

You can do it in a week.

And at that point you can start
showing some momentum and some

progress that you've already made
for this section, which makes the

investor think, Oh, this is happening.

I should probably make
a decision pretty soon.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040: Yeah,
hopefully you want to get far enough down

the road that yes, this is happening But
not making commitments that you start to

lose money, you know You don't make pay
or play deals with with a cast member

or don't book a location or anything
Because it does take a while as you

know, Darren does take a while to raise
money so it is a little bit of a, which

comes first, chicken and egg scenario.

Um, but I, I agree that those
conversations can happen.

Just be very transparent with,
with whomever you're reaching

out to, reach out to your actor.

Hey, we have a project.

I'm very interested in doing it.

I am raising money right now, and
I'd love to attach you because I

think that that would help investors.

Like, okay, great.

But if it doesn't happen, you
know, we're all, this is all

just kind of equity right now.

Um, those are, that's a
good conversation to have.

And you're right.

It, it definitely sets the,
of starts that train moving.

Uh, number five financial
plan and investment structure.

And this is key.

This is vital.

It's very important to be
able to know about this Um,

what is your funding strategy?

And what is your revenue model?

And what is the return model?

Again, that's so there's a combination of
yes comp titles and accurate comp titles

or at least You know if you're with a
distributor, what have they distributed

in the past you might say Oh, Napoleon
Dynamite has done this and this and this.

Well, that was by Fox studios.

So have you ever distributed
through Fox studios?

Do you have a contact there?

Then don't put it in a comp title, right?

So as an, as an independent investor
or independent filmmaker, that

the world you build and the plan
that you build is accurate to

the film that you are creating.

If you are saying we are going to
pitch to such and such Netflix and

things like that, a distributor,
then perhaps that's who you should be

pitching this business plan to, um,

let's see, I mentioned, so funding
strategy, your private investors,

you know, you'd say, Hey, we're,
we're raising equity based funding.

From independent film financiers.

Um, we're also getting production
grants from local film commissions or,

um, organizations who have a similar
interest in this, in this story.

we're getting tax incentives from
certain state governments, and then

we'll raise this much via crowdfunding.

Right.

So there's your fine funding strategy
and people want to know if it's debt

or equity investment and so forth.

So do yourself a favor and kind of
research that so that when somebody

asks those questions, if you're
having those conversations that you

can intelligently talk about that,
or at least a conversation where you

can say, let's, let's find that out
together or let, let me research that.

Um, But you just don't want
to be blindsided with terms

that you're not familiar with.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040:
I think you said it like it's,

that's an important section.

There are a lot of line producers
on the internet that will tell you

that it's important to have a line
item budget in your business plan.

Maybe if an investor is asking for a line
on a budget, then you should get them one.

If they're not, don't spend thousands
of dollars paying a line producer

to create one for you upfront.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040: Well,
I think that that's the, that's the key.

You say, can we have
your line item budget?

You say, here's what that costs
in order for me to make that.

And I would love to be able
to provide that for you.

I would need some development funds.

Are you willing to commit to some of the
development funds to help me do that?

Because

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040: yeah,
now you're just spending and spending

and spending, and they say, oh great,
well let's see you shoot a short film

for it, great, here's what it costs in
order to do that, is that something,

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040: Yeah, but
I've seen a lot of filmmakers go to a line

producer, pay them 15, 20, 1500 or 2, 000
to create a line on a budget for them at a

certain budget level, because that's where
they think the film is going to get made.

And then they go to the next investor
and they go, well, can I see a budget at

half that budget or twice that budget?

Well, now they got to go back.

And ask for another one.

And maybe that invest, that line
producer doesn't know that budget.

So they got to find a
different line producer.

Now they're spending another 1, 500
and again, and again, and again.

And so it's, it's hard to give a
definitive answer because every film

is different and every conversation is
different, but I would say lead with.

Not needing one until
someone asked to see one.

And at that point you can
have that conversation around.

Well, yeah, but we need some
development funds to do that level of.

Right.

Because now you're getting
into prep for the movie.

You're saying we're kind of
committing to this budget, this

location, this size of production.

How are we going to do that?

Okay.

Well, you're get some people committed
and help, uh, put that together or get

to the point where you've got a little
bit of development money within your own

production company, where you can say,
yeah, we're going to spend five grand.

Every time we take a movie out to the
marketplace, we're going to create.

A temp trailer, not a
trailer, a temp poster.

We're going to create the business plan.

We're going to put a really nice
pitch deck together and we're going

to spend some money on these things.

And that's okay too.

But I really would avoid just thinking
that in order to go have conversations

with investors, we need to have a
2, 000 line item budget created by

some line producer on the internet.

So get resourceful and go start
having the conversations first.

And then when they ask for things
that you don't have, say, great.

Yeah.

Let me get that to you in the next
week or two, which is totally fine.

It's not a bad thing to say,
Oh yeah, we're working on that.

Or, Oh, no, one's asked for that yet.

So if we're at that stage and you're
interested, I'd love to talk about, you

know, are you interested in financing
that the development portion or yeah,

let me get that to you in a week.

This happened to me on my fund.

Where I didn't have what's called
a private placement memorandum.

It's kind of rare to
have those for a fund.

You'll have those for
individual investments, but

not necessarily for a fund.

So I didn't have a private
placement memorandum.

So an investor said, great, I'm ready.

Send me the PPM.

I said, great.

I don't have one.

Let me put one together for you.

He's like, Oh, that's interesting.

I'm like, look, I've got other
investors that have come in.

They did not ask for one, so I
didn't spend the money to create one.

So then it took me a week or two and
I sent him the PPM and he said, great.

It looks good.

Okay.

But I mean, we're talking like,
this is me at my level in my career.

I still don't spend money.

I don't have to spend
until somebody asks for it.

In which case I know that spending a
little bit of money to create a PPM

is going to get me tens or hundreds of
thousands of dollars worth of investment.

At that point, it's worth the expense.

So don't, don't wait to go start
pitching your project because you

don't have the money to create a line
item budget is what I'm trying to say.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040: um,
yeah, I, I, no, it's a good, it's a

good rant and a great, great point, and,
uh, man, I, I got hung up on your PTM

talk, cause, remember creating a PPM
for my first film an investor asked for

it, a potential investor asked for it.

And I spent the money and time and
effort and energy to have one created.

And then he didn't come in.

It's not, uh, what a waste, but, uh, I
was certainly not raising a film fund.

Um, so yeah, be wise and just
do the work that you can do.

If and, uh, keep the conversation going,
I think with, with your investors.

Like that's, that's the idea.

There's no, if, if it's
working and they're asking

questions, it's a great thing.

Um, you want to, you want to,
you're, you're putting together a

business to, to, to create this film.

And so they should be people that you
should be able to have conversations

with and push back and agreements and
compromises and figure out how to do

this together, um, within certain limits.

Don't want to leave the door
open there for a creative.

Okay.

And then also in that section,
don't make sure that you do

put your investor returns.

Like what is the revenue model
we anticipate, or this is how we

generate money at the box office.

You're not talking about, amounts
or estimates at this time, but

just say, this is the method for
creating, uh, revenue from box office.

This is the method for creating
revenue from streaming or VOD.

And this is ancillary revenue.

And so these are opportunities that
the investor could say, Oh, what are

your amounts and things like that?

Then you can get into comp
titles or past performance.

But, uh, in this plan, um, in the
investment structure, you're not

necessarily talking about those numbers.

Number six, uh, we're almost done there.

This is great.

Marketing and distribution plan.

This is key.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040: Yes.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040: have
in your business plan, the marketing plan.

What is your early awareness campaign?

This is our strategy, We're going
to have an early awareness campaign.

So we'll start.

in the pre production phase by generating
audience engagement before filming starts.

This is not just, I'm going to post
it on my Facebook page and talk about

things that maybe may or may not happen.

but this is an actual concentrated
marketing plan, that, that establishes

the branding of the film very early on.

Darren, you did an amazing job at this
with Faith of Angels, and that was a

little bit of a unique scenario because
we were making that In a, in a, in sort

of a period where we weren't actively
promoting it, but you made sure that

photography was being taken and, you
know, stories were being highlighted.

So that when we did start that marketing,
you could kind of create that Pre

production and production process.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040: Yeah.

It's so important.

And in this process, you're also
showing that you understand what the

movie is, what's the hook for the
movie, and who the audience is for

it, and how you're gonna reach them.

Like you need to know those things.

It can't just be, well, there
are horror movie fans out there.

There are faith-based movie fans
out there, so they're gonna show up.

That's just not realistic anymore.

Like the idea of if you
build it, they will come.

There is so much content.

In the world today, and you're competing
not just with the other movies and

theaters, but what's on their phones
and their social media platforms.

What's on Netflix?

What's on YouTube?

What's on TV?

What's on gaming?

Like you're competing against all of that
for people's time, attention and money.

And so you need to be able to say
in this strategy doc, part of the

document, this is who we are after.

And this is how we're gonna reach them.

This is where they are.

This is the, the platforms
that they are on.

This is the, the, uh, the media that
they consume and where we can reach them.

These are the influencers that, you know,
I think you need to be at that level of

granularity at this point in the process
because marketing is often left left.

left.

As an afterthought, something that other
people handle once the movie's made.

My job as a filmmaker
is to make the movie.

It's the marketers and the salespeople
and distributors jobs for it to

make money and reach an audience.

I don't think that model exists anymore.

I think as a filmmaker in 2025
and beyond, you have to be

thinking about the audience.

At the same time, you're thinking about
who's going to invest in this project.

And if you don't know what the poster
looks like, and if you don't know who

the audience is and what is the thing
that's going to hook them and get

them to pay attention and to get them
to want to desire to see this movie,

I think you got to do that first,
or at very least at the same time as

you're raising money from investors.

So it's really, really key to show
that you have an understanding of this.

And if you don't, then you need to find
a marketing partner that's going to come.

In very, very early in the process,
and he's gonna give you some of that

insight for your business plan and
say, here's what I think the hook is.

Here's the audience.

Here's how we're gonna reach them so
that it can be part of this document.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040: I
think in this marketing strategy, yeah,

that is the early awareness campaign.

You talk about different partnerships,
uh, you talk about social media and

influencing engagement, any grassroots,
uh, campaign that you're planning on

doing, cover your press and PR strategy.

You know, uh, Hey, this
is a faith based movie.

We'll be reaching out to
national Christian media outlets

and podcasts and film blogs.

one of the things we did with faith
of angels is that we knew that,

uh, Our key audience, one of our
key audience was going to be same

audience as angel studios audience.

These people are subscribing
and paying for content that

is uplifting and inspiring and
faith of angels aligns with that.

So in our business plan, we
involved, uh, um, them, we involved.

Angel Studios in our pre, uh, during
production, we had, uh, we were

able to invite Angel Studios out to
the set and to be a part of that.

They, at that point were our
audience, uh, and, uh, so it's come

full circle now that we're releasing
that movie today on their platform.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040: Yeah,

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040: um,
you want to, yeah, always, always be

thinking about and marketing and make
that a part of your business plan to show

that That's what you're thinking about.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040: I
think that's an interesting thing.

You highlighted is who already
has the audience that you're after

because making a connection with
Angel Studios is a single show.

Relationship, right?

It's us and them.

Whereas they have relationships with 500,
000 people or 20 million email subscribers

or whatever it is they have, they have
an audience of people they can reach.

That now we can tap into for free.

It doesn't cost us anything to market
to their people and tell them this

movie now exists on the platform.

So that's a ton of leverage.

And so you got to apply that same
thinking to your distribution partners,

your sales partners, your marketing
partners, your influencers, who

already has the audience that you need.

To reach in order for this movie to be
successful and think about those people

first, not necessarily about the end
audience, because yeah, I'm not reaching

some grandpa in Nebraska on LinkedIn.

Like he's not in my audience, so
I'm not able to reach that guy.

And even, and I don't necessarily
want to spend money to advertise to

him on Facebook and hope that he's
on the platform during the two weeks

that we're spending money and hope
that he sees the ad and hope that he

clicks on it and hope that he goes
to the Cinemark app and buy a ticket.

That's too much hope for
the budgets we have as indie

filmmakers for our marketing.

And so who is he already listening to to,
to find movies to go and watch with his

wife and his family on a Friday afternoon?

Start there.

So you really got to be thinking
about who already has the audience and

how do you get them to partner with
you and be part of your team or to

be part of your marketing strategy.

And that's where you're going to
get the leverage in order to reach

the millions of people you need in
order to make this movie successful.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040:
Um, number seven is risk

assessment and mitigation.

I think it's important in your business
plan to acknowledge the risks, both

that filmmaking is a risk independent
films is an extreme risk, and this is

what we're doing to mitigate those.

So you talk about production risks, you
know, those might include budget overruns

or casting delays or location challenges.

And here's what we're doing to, uh, to
mitigate that, you know, we're working

with an experienced line producer.

We have, uh, contingency funding or,
you know, we're controlling a location

because we own it, whatever it is.

and then also talk about
market risks, right?

You've got a niche audience
limitations or just the volatility

of film or independent film.

and it's so, and this will lead us.

segue into our discussion at the end
of this episode of the box office.

But, uh, you know, box
office is so unpredictable.

So here's the market risks and this is
what we're doing to mitigate those, right?

We have a, we have a strong festival
contact, or we've got a, uh, um, proven

relationship with a distributor that is
going to release this movie regardless of,

you know, other challenges and so forth.

But, uh, You want to acknowledge
the risks and talk about what

you're doing to overcome them.

You want to, you want to,
you want to win the race.

You want to beat the investor or
beat, you want to break your own

movie before somebody else can, right?

Say, yes, these are the break
points and this is what we're

doing to, to make sure it doesn't

lose you.

I think, I think you're muted.

I mute you?

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040:
Oh, weird.

I got muted.

Well, all the amazing things I just
said, who no one will never know.

Cause I was muted.

No, I just said no notes like that
is really smart and really good.

And.

I think you're done.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040:
get to hear that part.

That's good.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040:
That is good.

That's why I repeated it.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040:
well, good and, uh, and then the final

thing that I want to, that I usually
put in my business plan is the call

to action and the next steps, right?

This is where we are.

We're seeking initial funding
or we've already raised 25%.

We're seeking the remaining 75%.

and these are the benefits.

Right.

This is what we're providing you.

There's equity ownership in this.

Um, you'll you'll you know, you'll get
first look access to different screenings

or investor events Um that you get
first priority on our next project in

order to do that, we're acting by this
date by the end of the month We need

to be at you know, 75 funded so we
can go into pre production or whatever

we need to secure these, uh, Secure
these agreements with potential casts.

Therefore we need this Investment to be
made by search and search date, but it's

important to put in this business plan

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040: Yeah,
the time aspect is really essential.

You need to be able to tell people.

Hey, this is happening by this date.

If you want to be a part of it, that's
your time window in order to take

action because you, you can't have
people thinking about it for six months.

Movies can be done by then.

Right?

But if you don't put that in there,
they might think, Oh, This is something

that will happen sometime this year,
so I've got time to think about it.

Well, you don't want them
thinking about it for six months.

You need the money now because you want
to be in production in three months.

So be just very clear and direct.

And it's okay to put that in there.

It's okay to say we need
investors in by this date.

They want that clarity.

So they know when they
need to make a decision by,

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040:
It's scary to do it.

I understand and can relate that it's
scary to say Oh, if you're not in by such

and such date, we'll we'll move on Um,
because you think oh i've already come

this far with an investor this guy's One
of the, one of the 50 people that I've

talked to that is actually talking to me.

Um, but I think that there is value in
saying, look, goal is to make the movie,

not to talk about making the movie.

And so if we're just talking about it,
it's not, it's not an investor to get.

Uh, and that can, that comes from
honestly, personal experience this Project

that I've been pitching for a while.

I've been working with a
particular individual and

they've been very interested,
very supportive of the project.

And I'm very excited
about their involvement.

They've, they've done
projects with me in the past.

but I discovered that we were just talking
and talking and talking a lot about it.

And, uh, perhaps there was an interest
in their part of saying, Oh, I'm, I'm.

Needed.

And I think there was value in me saying.

We're going to move on, uh, to people
who are, who are ready at this time.

And we'll come to you for another
project, which is fine, but, but we

need to move on for this project.

And this last week they called
me like they pursued me and said,

okay, where are you on the project?

I'm interested in being a part of it.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040:
there you go.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040:
don't be afraid to move

forward with making your movie.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040: Yeah.

A lot of times we think that all of
the value lies in the hands of the

investors, cause they have the money
and that's the resource that we lack

right now, but no, the value lies in the
product, the project that you've created.

And so.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040:
one of those.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040: only
one of those you have the only one and

you kind of need to have that energy
as you're presenting and pitching and

sending out business plans of like,
this is the only one of these, if you

want this, you have to go through me.

I'm the one who has it.

Let's talk.

Right?

And so people need to feel that that's
part of the buying process for them

to finally make the decision of,
okay, the pull of this opportunity

is greater than my anxiety around
it greater than doing nothing.

I need to be a part of it.

And everyone's going to react differently.

Some people will show up pre sold.

They're like, Hey, I heard
you're doing a movie.

I want in.

I've had investors say
that to me about the fund.

You've had people say that to you
about movies where they go, I want to

invest in any films and you're making
the kind that I want to invest in.

Can I, can we do something together?

That's the best case scenario.

But most of the people are going
to be on the other end of the

spectrum of like, Oh, I've never
really thought about indie film.

Let me think about that.

Well, that moment is not the time to say,
are you in for a hundred thousand dollars?

No, they're just barely
starting to think about it.

So you've got to meet them where they are.

And that might be a pitch deck.

It might be a short conversation about.

What investing in movies
feels like, right?

So they can start thinking about
it, noodling on it, and thinking

about it on their ride to work.

And they maybe listen to our podcast,
or they read a blog post, or they

watch one of your old movies.

They're going to go through
this buying process.

And at some point, they're going to reach
that threshold of like, Okay, I need to

make a decision here because XYZ reasons.

And that's when they're going to
be asking for more information,

like a business plan or a pitch
deck, or have you done a teaser?

Can I watch it?

Can I, what is your last movie that
you did and how much did it make?

Like that's when they're asking those
questions and at some point, your

business plan and your pitch deck and
all your materials are, they exist to

give them enough information, enough
pull enough demand for them to go.

I want to make this choice
to invest in this thing.

And to cross that threshold.

So it also is really important to
understand where people are at in

that buying process and how these
different materials you're creating

are helping pull them through that
process to get to the point where

they can actually make a decision.

A

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040:
Hopefully you can get to that point, uh,

Darren, hopefully those conversations
continue and you find great partners to,

to invest that is not a nervous money.

That's not vanity money, excuse
me, vanity money, it's just,

um, money that is, that is.

in a trusted filmmaker and you've got
a good partnership and uh, I think

that's how good businesses form and
independent film can be part of that.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040:
hundred percent.

That's good stuff, man.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040:
points I have

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040:
That's awesome.

I'm excited.

Like we've created all these really
great resources for filmmakers to say,

can you talk to me about pitching?

Yeah, here's a, an hour episode.

Can you talk to me about raising money?

Yeah.

You talking to me about business plans?

Yeah.

Like we're creating a little MBA here for
filmmakers, which I'm very excited about.

Much here for, um, great stuff.

Let's talk about box office.

Cause this weekend was kind of
interesting because there was a Super

Bowl that happened on Sunday and
that kind of messes with box office.

Right.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040:
I guess I don't know you mean,

uh, 45 million box office in the
top 10 You mean that's not good.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040: Uh huh.

So yeah, top, uh, overall
gross was 53 million.

The lowest of the last, uh,
lowest of this year for sure.

Um, 85 million was last weekend.

So, you know, 36.

9 percent drop.

week over week.

Um, and you can see it
even in the top 10 films.

The number one film was 13 million.

So, you know, if you, if you take
an average, Ticket price of, I

think it's like 10 and 78 cents.

Now I just rounded 10 because easy
math about 50 million people went in

or not 50 million, 5 million people
went and saw a movie last weekend.

Whereas the week before that
it was eight and a half million

people that went and saw a movie.

That's a big difference.

And so when you're thinking about
strategically, when you're going

to release your movie, well,
don't release a football movie

the weekend of the super bowl.

Cause 150 million people
are going to watch that.

And 5 million people are going
to go to the movies that weekend.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040:
I like it.

That makes sense Um, yeah, it,
you want to pay attention to

when you're releasing your film.

And we've done an entire season on
that almost in our first season,

talking about selecting the right
date for releasing your movies,

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040: Yeah.

And just to highlight again, this,
this, uh, opinion we have around release

strategy, if it's a low number one movie,
but if the box office gross is low for the

number one film, like in this case, 13.

8 million gross this weekend for dog
man, the number 10 movie Moana two 1.

6, which is a high number.

Like our history of talking about box
office for like eight months, like 1.

6 is a high number for the top 10 spot.

There have been weeks that
are as low as 450, 000.

So this is like four times the amount
that you have to make to break the top 10.

And why does that matter?

Again, because if you can break
the top 10 as an independent,

you're going to get a ton of free.

Awareness about your movie, because
there are lots of outlets that will write

about the top 10 movies for the weekend.

And there are hundreds of thousands,
if not millions of people who

are going to see, here's the
top 10 for this last weekend.

And if your movie's in it and they've
never heard of it, guess what?

A percentage of them are going
to click on your thing, go to box

office, mojo, go to IMDb, go to
rotten tomatoes, wherever it is and

watch a trailer and go buy a ticket.

And so that's free.

That's free awareness that you
get by breaking the top 10.

If you can get a box office opening
weekend of half a million to 2

million, you can break the top 10
if you're doing it strategically.

So

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040:
case in point.

Look at, uh, the number seven
movie becoming led Zeppelin.

No, no distributor of note, you
know, it's not a major distributor.

I guess it's a sony pictures classics Um,
and uh, yeah, it's the number seven movie.

They put it on 369 screens so they
knew it was a very independent release

and it did almost seven thousand
dollars per screen and broke the top

ten So 369 screens broke the top 10.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040: yeah,

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040:
we've opened movies wider than

that on wider screens than that.

It's good strategy.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040:
it's a great strategy.

They actually like, that's, that's the
model that we were preaching when we were

talking about distribution theatrically.

And I mean, they did two and
a half million in a weekend on

a documentary on 369 screens.

Like that is really, really smart.

They did a great job as far as like.

You know, not super limited releases
on one or two or four screens.

They have the highest per screen
average, you know, 369 screens.

The next big one was 193 screens, 1,
800, you know, like 4X the per screen

average of Parasites re release.

Then you still have a couple of
movies that are in 3000 plus theaters.

You've got Dogman, Hard Eyes, and
Love Hurts, which are new releases,

wide releases, but they made between
1, 800 and 3, 500 per screen.

So it doubled those guys.

So, uh, it all comes down
to that per screen average.

They're going to be in
theaters for a while.

If they want to be, it's pretty awesome.

I love it.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040:
Darren, great conversation.

A great episode.

Thanks very much.

Uh, any, any final notes,
any plans this week?

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040: Uh, my
plan right now is to, to ask the audience

to go share this podcast with all their
friends and filmmaking acquaintances,

because this, these are conversations that
we're having, uh, with individuals and

then we're putting them on the podcast.

And so they're super valuable.

I think, and I'm excited again,
that we're building this kind

of library of, uh, experience.

I don't, I hesitate to say knowledge,
but experience that we have over our 20

years or whatever careers of in film.

So please share it with people, tell
them that this podcast exists, share

it on your socials, let people know
about this podcast, because it's

something we're really passionate about.

And the more people that we
can reach the better it gets.

So thanks man.

Love doing this with you.

garrett-batty_1_02-11-2025_102040: Yep.

Thanks.

Thanks for the great conversation.

Good luck.

And, uh, can't wait to
chat with you next week.

daren-smith_1_02-11-2025_102040: Same.

See you then.

Thank you for listening to this
episode of Truly Independent.

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