Truly Independent: Demystifying the Indie Film Journey

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: I think
we should just start by saying

indie film showed up this year.

This is Truly Independent, a show that
demystifies the indie film journey by

documenting the process of releasing
independent films in theaters.

Each week, Garrett Batty and I,
Darren Smith, will update you

on our journey, bringing guests
to share their insights into the

process and answer your questions.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Garrett.

How's it going, man?

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
So good.

So good.

Darren, great to see you.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: You too.

It's good to be back doing
the podcast together.

Last week we missed that
one, but it worked out.

I think it worked out.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
Yeah, no.

Well, uh, I mean the episode has been,
uh, getting a lot of views and listens.

Uh, I apologize in advance here
and I'm kind of casual today.

I'm kind of in my.

We, we've had a busy week of
traveling and, uh, so I'm just

doing my hoodie and t-shirt and,
uh, thanks for putting up with me.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Oh man, I
didn't know there was a dress code.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
Oh, okay.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: I've definitely
done the hoodies and the sweatpants

many times 'cause people can't see
below, you know, mid waist on me in

this shot, so you don't even know if
I'm wearing clothes underneath anyway.

Uh, it's really good to be back though.

We had.

We had a busy week last week.

You were at NRBI was at the
Zions Indie Film Festival.

You joined the last two days, I think,
and then the Oscars were on Sunday.

So we got a lot to talk about.

Today we're really gonna do kind
of a recap of the two events

and the award ceremony, and
that's what we're in for today.

So do you wanna start with NRB or
you want me to start with Ziff?

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
Yeah, let's go in that order.

NRB Ziff.

Oscars.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: I love it.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
which is great.

Yeah.

So NRB, this was my first year there.

It's the National Religious Broadcasters
Convention and it was in Dallas,

uh, at the, uh, Gaylord Texan,
great big huge convention center.

um, it was just amazing.

It was an eyeopening, um, opportunity
or an eye-opening event to be

able to go and interact with so
many people who are focused on.

Uh, this was Christian and
faith-based broadcasting.

It kind of bled over into
film, uh, which was what, uh,

which was why I went out there.

I knew that there were several
distributors out there and several of

my, know, partners that I've worked
with before, uh, were attending.

And as you and I were releasing Faith
of Angels, um, Cameron Anette, who's,

very present in that industry or
in that market said, Hey, you need

to come to NRB and check this out.

Uh.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Oh, nice.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
and, uh, I'm so glad that he did.

Darren, it was, it was, uh, you know, a
lot of opportunities to meet and network

and interact and kind of put into practice
everything that you've been about as

far as, uh, you know, how to, how to
set up a pitch, um, and at what stage

we're gonna start pitching these ideas.

And then, uh, uh, let's see.

I guess there were two main events
that I wanted to participate in.

was a pitch Aon.

Where it was an opportunity to meet,
there were about 31 distributors.

Each had a table and you signed
up for the opportunity to

pitch different distributors.

Some were looking for finished films,
others were looking for, uh, scripts.

Um, but, uh, they were all
looking for opportunities to

network with upcoming filmmakers.

So I went to that.

I signed up for several.

Um.

Meetings with several distributors,
many of with whom I've worked before.

So in those meetings I was able
to kind of show them, Hey, these

are the titles that we've done.

Here's my QR code.

You can scan this, and then
talk about projects that I have,

that I have in development.

So here's, you know, of
series and a couple of feature

films that are in developing.

Um, again, it's only you get about
five minutes to interact with these.

With each table.

And then, you know, they, they
ring the bell and you go out

and the next batch comes in.

There were hundreds of filmmakers
distributing, which was also very

eye-opening because you say, look,
do I have to offer that, uh, one

of these distributors is going to
say, yeah, we want, we wanna work

with you on, you know, and there,
there were no shortage of projects.

No shortage of distributors.

So it immediately shifted from, Hey, I'm
gonna walk outta here with a film deal to,

Hey, I'm going to get as many contacts and
names as I can, and when it's not kind of

this feeding frenzy, reach out, follow up
with what I passed out to them, and then

find out more about what they're doing.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: So tell me
a little more about these distributors.

Are they theatrical distributors?

Are they broadcasters?

Like are they sales agents?

What?

Who are you talking to at that event?

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
Well, just a, a rough sampling

was, you know, angel Studios was
there, uh, looking for content.

So Jared Gey, the head of theatrical
distribution for Angel Studios was there.

I have already met Jared.

We've, we've interacted several
times and in fact they, angel has

just released Faith of Angels,

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
on their platform.

So, you know, in my few minutes with
Jared and uh, his team, I was able

to shake hands and follow up and let
them know what else I'm working on.

Um, but just out how they're doing.

Um, heartstrings Media was there.

We've had Kirk on our show, so Kirk
and Roger were there, and they had a

group of, uh, individuals that were
with them that may many were meeting

with heartstrings to pitch them ideas.

And Heartstring is looking for.

content that they can either
help fund or help distribute.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
certainly there's a lineup there.

Um, and then there were, there
were smaller broadcasters.

Uh, G Media was there, you know, and,
and I, uh, Glenn Wagner and we've,

I've interviewed Glenn and, and
had a great conversation with him.

I guess it was more than an interview.

It was more, it was a, I reached out and
said, Hey, this is what I'm trying to do.

I'm, can you, what advice do you have?

And this was the individual that,
uh, was instrumental in releasing

the passion of the Christ.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Oh wow.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
uh, you know, sitting with him for

five minutes, just first of all,
thanking him for everything that he's

done for independent film and for
faith-based film, uh, and then talking

about potential projects or things
that he might be interested in doing.

was invaluable.

It was, it was worth going out there for.

And then yes, during
there were smaller, um.

Distributors, people with, you know,
fast channels or a VO channels or

streaming, um, you know, networks where
they say, Hey, you know, we're in the

Florida or Western Florida, uh, and we
have a million, you know, viewers on

our, on our, uh, broadcast, our limited
broadcast, and we're looking for content.

And it, and so suddenly for me as
an independent filmmaker, I say,

well, boy, if I have a non-exclusive
deal with people, no reason I

wouldn't want to put my content on
all of these other little networks.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: Studios
has a million subscribers in their guild.

there's a million viewers in Florida,
uh, you know, why not, uh, make a

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
with them?

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Awesome.

So how was it pitching?

Did you do something different than
you've done in the past or like what

was kind of your approach or your
goal going into those pitch meetings?

'cause you've got two things going on.

You've got faith of angels that could get
distributed and placed places, and then

you've got all this development stuff.

What did you focus on and how
did you kind of balance that?

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
Before pitching each table,

you know, you sign up.

signed up weeks ago to pitch,
and then I went and researched

what they are looking for.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Hmm.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: so if
I'm sitting with Angel, if I, I wouldn't,

I wouldn't be pitching to Angel Studios if
I'm sitting with, um, who did I sit with?

Uh, Harmon.

Uh, who's the

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Lin.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: Yes.

So I'm sitting with Harman Castle.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Nice.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
a He puts films in theaters

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Mm-hmm.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: and
he's not looking to develop content.

He's looking for finished product.

At this point, faith of angels
already, you know, has those, has

has done its s the actual thing.

So with Harman, I'm just networking.

I'm just talking with him,
finding out what he's looking

for, what he's working on.

And he has since returned
from NRB, followed up with me.

Man, so great to reconnect with
you and let us know what you're

working on and anytime you have a
project, you know, send it our way.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: Um.

So, yeah, I, as you, as we've
discussed in previous episodes, you

try to tailor the pitch for, the
person with whom you're speaking.

And if it was a first time
meeting them, um, BMG was there.

BMG has distributed several of my films,

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Nice.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: some
of my earlier films, and so I sat with

them and talked about an upcoming project
that I'm working on and just kind of

planted the seed and say, look, I, I'll.

be reaching out once this film
is done or once these series

are, are in play or funded.

And I would love to see if it is, it's a
good fit for your, for your, uh, viewers.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Nice.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: I dunno
if that answered your question, Darren.

I just tried to tailor whatever it was.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945:
No, it's really awesome.

And the key with any of these events,
whether it's like an A FM or an NRB

where you're going with the intent
to meet lots of people in one.

Event or one week, the key is getting
in front of them early, right?

So sending a thing, I I used to send out
emails to people two, three weeks out

before a FM and say, I'm gonna be there.

I'm, I'm looking forward to swinging by.

If there's a good day and time that
works best for you, let me know.

But here's me and here's a little
bit about what I'm working on.

And then when I show up, Hey,
I'm Darren, they're, oh yeah,

I got your, your, uh, teaser.

Thanks for sending that over.

Right?

So they, you're already setting
yourself on a different.

Level by instead of waiting in line
and going, hi, my name's so and so,

and you've never heard of me before.

You kinda get ahead of it.

And then you also applied that thing
we talked about briefly before,

which is this demand side selling.

Like you wanna know what
they're looking for first and.

Then pitch them that instead of, here's
what I have, are you interested in this?

Now what's really nice it sounds like
about NRB, is that everybody there is

kind of interested in the same thing.

They're looking for faith-based
and religious content and and

distribution for those projects.

So that part is kind of
taken care of, which is nice.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: It,
it, it became apparent during the, uh,

because I knew, I put myself in their
situation, you know, and they're sitting

in this room for an hour or two hours
and every five minutes somebody knew

is coming in to pitch them an idea.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: either
asking for money or asking for content,

and it didn't feel like that was the
right scenario to like pitch, you know,

a full, you know, here's my treatment.

Um.

That wasn't gonna be memorable.

So it felt like, yes, I had done the,
done the, the, uh, work beforehand to

introduce myself, um, to let them know who
I'm, and then it was just about me making

contact and making an impression on them

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
that in the future I can, I can

reach out, say, Hey, I had a great
conversation with you at NRB.

It was five minutes.

Um, we talked briefly about this.

I'd love to tell you more about this.

Then we got like a, you know, cards
of everybody who I met with and, um.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
And I'll, and now I'll spend the

week, this week following up.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah, exactly.

I mean, it's very similar
to speed dating, right?

You're not proposing on the first date,
like you're not, here's, here's the reason

why you should marry me in five minutes.

No, you're just saying, hi, dude.

This is who I am.

Tell me a little bit about you.

Let's feel each other out for five
minutes, and you usually, because.

We're humans and we've
done this our entire life.

You know, if there's
something there, right.

You know, if there's interest, you know,
if there's a connection, you know, if

there's attraction right of, of any very
variety of attraction, then okay, great.

Now let's follow up and have a Zoom
meeting or a coffee, or next time I'm in

LA or Nashville or Florida, let's meet up.

Right.

Those.

Those things.

It's the start of the relationship,
not the one shot in order

to like get the deal done.

So I It's cool that you had
such success, it sounds like.

Um, my guess is that a lot of people
were there and just like spilling their

Skittles in the, in the lobby, right.

Just like, here's everything
I could possibly tell you.

And then the time's up.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
It felt bad.

You know, you, you identify those people
and you think, okay, how can we help them?

But yes, where you come out and you
say, Hey, I have five minutes and I've

memorized something I'm gonna deliver it.

But, but you know, the distributor's
not connecting with you.

Or you memorize something and then you
freeze up and you come out in tears going.

I had five minutes with, uh, angel
and I, I choked, and that's all

they're gonna remember me for.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
And so it had to be very, very kind

of spontaneous and on your feet
and definitely have a lead behind.

I mean, I think that this
was very helpful because it

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Mm-hmm.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: point
of contact if the conversation started

to run dry, they, they would reflect
on this or say, okay, so what's this?

Or, oh, this looks interesting and

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
to pick up on that.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Well, and
that alone, like, I mean, you showed

it on the screen, but I mean, what do
you have on the front and the back?

You got like five movie posters
that have, or movies you've

already done on the front.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 movie, seven
movie posters you've already done.

And then on the back you've got a
number of projects in development.

So you're in, in two seconds
of looking front and back.

You're like, oh, this person
is working in the industry.

This is a director, writer,
producer, whatever it is that has

done projects and has more coming.

So if I wanna be aligned with
someone who's already doing

it, that's who this person is.

You're doing that much context in like a
leave behind, in a two second interaction.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: I, I
think in this industry it's about working

with people you enjoy working with.

So that, with that in mind, and I
want this to sound right, it became

a little bit more about pitching
myself pitching the project.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
Because I can, I feel like I can leave

an impression on somebody and then we
can develop the project or whatever it's

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: I were
going in with a finished film saying,

here's this, uh, and in some instances I
was, you know, I did a movie with Cameron

Arnet and John Michael Finley, and it's
on Angel Ewes right now, and we're looking

for other channels to release it on.

You know, that's something
we want to talk about.

if it was just kind of these
development deals or hey, getting

to know you for five minutes.

Pitch yourself as a filmmaker.

Like, tell me why I wanna work with you.

There's 31 other people here
might wanna work with you.

Tell me about you.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah.

Well, I think that's a key point to take
away as well is have a single outcome and

you can understand what that outcome is.

If you do the research like you
did ahead of time, like, oh, this

would be a great channel for me to
pitch a finished faith of Angels to.

Oh, these look like people.

That would be really great to know for the
next movie that I'm gonna put in theaters.

Right?

So it kind of narrows your focus.

So then you can go in with that single
focus and go, Hey, I'm really interested

in what you guys are doing theatrically.

Can you tell me a little bit about that?

Right.

Oh, well, very cool.

Here's why I asked.

Then now you are connected on something
where it's gonna benefit both of

you instead of, well, I've got this
and this and this and this and this,

and I'd love for you to finance my
movie and distribute my other one

and give me all the context you have.

And that's just not gonna happen,
especially in five minutes.

So well done, man.

I hope it turns out really well for you.

It sounds like you've got a week of
follow up ahead of you, but that's

part of the gig of pitching, like.

I've been told this by multiple people.

The fortune is in the follow-up.

I don't necessarily love the focus on
money, like I think the relationships

are really what matter, but if
you're trying to, you know, strike

it rich, so to speak, or hit the
jackpot, then it's in the follow-up.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: yeah.

And I, I mean, that doesn't even have
to mean necessarily money, but the,

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Right?

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
But yes, the.

Yeah.

Uh, I guess that's what
you were just saying.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
anyway, it that, I mean, I could talk

on and on for NRB, uh, about NRB.

It was, it was really great.

We got to see, uh, early episode,
uh, uh, I guess the latest episode

of the Chosen that's unreleased,
which was again, looks so powerful.

Um, I will point out one of these,
you know, everybody's passing out

cards and everything like that.

There was a woman there that passed
out a old chocolate candy bar with her.

And for her production, uh, accountants.

She's a production accountant now,
this woman, uh, and I apologize to her.

I do not remember her name and I
should, uh, because she reached out

beforehand and I think she reached
out to you too, Darren, on LinkedIn.

Uh,

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: I was gonna
say like Proco accounts, I think I just

heard from somebody like this week.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: Right.

And, and we need to, we need to
actually have her on the podcast.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Oh, nice.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
amazing things in pre-production

with accounting and, and kind of
planning out your, your budget.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Nice.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
a memorable, well, I mean, she is

the textbook example of, Hey, I'm
going to, um, reach out beforehand.

Say, Hey, I noticed you're going
to NRB or are you going to NRB?

I'd love to invite you to a, a dinner,
an event, uh, that I'm hosting.

and then, uh, when I was there,
you know, I could see her

scanning name tags and she goes,

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Mm-hmm.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
Garrett.

Oh, you're from, uh, truly independent.

here.

You know, I'd love to, love to

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Look at that.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
reconnect with you.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945:
Well, I love that.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
there wasn't a day, Darren, there

wasn't a day that went by that I
didn't get, uh, that, that the podcast

wasn't mentioned from listeners.

So it was so fun meeting
so many listeners.

And, uh, so thank you very much
for your, for, for reaching out.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945:
That is super cool.

Well, here's, uh, that's a good
transition into talking about Ziff

because the same thing happened at
Ziff, uh, and Ziff is the Zion's Indie

film Fest For those of you non-locals
here listening to the podcast.

But I was able to go Monday,
Tuesday, Friday, Saturday.

I ended up, uh, taking
a short trip to Anaheim.

And Disneyland with my wife on Wednesday.

'cause she had a, a conference
down there this last weekend.

So we went a day early so we could
just date each other at Disneyland,

which we'd never done before.

We'd always brought our kids
before, so it was really nice.

Um, but man, what a cool week.

There was some great projects.

I got to see TC Christensen's new movie,
raised in the bar on Monday night.

It was the opening
night, uh, feature film.

Really well done.

Um.

I saw a couple other movies.

I didn't see as many projects as
I wanted to, I should say, because

you know, I had a lot of dad duty.

Like I've got three boys at home and I
can't leave 'em at home nine, 10 hours

a day yet they're not quite there.

So I missed a few.

But like art, there were a lot of
really strong documentaries this

year, which I noticed like there
were some strong features, but.

Maybe years past had stronger.

Um, but, and that's just a very
biased, like, opinionated thing to say.

Um, it's not, uh, objective,
that's a subjective thing to say.

But I was really impressed by the
caliber of the documentaries and the

short films that were at the festival.

Like there were some really,
really good projects.

Um, and then we did our live show.

Well, I did our live show on
Friday morning and we had about.

Two dozen people in the audience.

It was an early morning time slot and
so a lot of people were recovering from

the night before and got there a little
late, but had some really great feedback.

Good questions.

So hopefully you'll check out that
last episode that we did live at Ziff.

Um, but yeah, it was a really good week.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: I,

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
I, I hear great things, uh,

Darren, that you did a great job.

And,

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: All good.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
those that haven't, that haven't

heard the episode yet, I was stuck
at NRB and had a flight, uh, miss.

know, mishap with my flight, and
so I didn't get back until after

you had recorded the live show.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah,

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: But

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: was
weird doing the show without you.

I don't like it, but we,
we made it work anyway.

Um, but yeah, there's just
so, there's such a passionate

community of indie filmmakers here.

Especially that kind of
flocked to Z every year.

And there were a lot of people I saw last
year who were asking about, you know, what

I'm working on and thanks for the show.

And you know, there's just so
many cool connections to be had.

Um, there was this great, I
wanted to call out this one.

There's this great experimental project.

It was basically like a radio show, uh,
Derek Rommel and this band, um, shoot,

I'm forgetting the name of the band, but
they basically did like a, a visual or a.

A long form audio album.

So they took like a five or six song
ep, um, by this band, Northwest Stories.

Thank you.

I was gonna say Northern Exposure
and I knew that was wrong.

Northwest Stories, the band is coming out
with a new album or has a new album out.

It's like a six song thing.

And they contracted and worked
with Derek and uh, Jordan.

Who was a composer and a
producer to basically put, weave

a story in between each song.

And they did just such a spectacular job.

The writing was so good, the voice acting,
uh, Dave Martinez and Mallory Everton

from uh, JK Studios just really nailed it.

I mean, when you just have a little bit
of sound design and two people talking.

Uh, you've got a, you've got a
lot to carry and they both did

an exquisite job and everything
about it was just really cool.

But you sat in the theater and they gave
you blindfolds beforehand so you could

experience it from the point of view of
one of these characters who is blind.

I.

You're just like, oh my gosh,
this is an experience that I

would not have anywhere else.

I doubt that they're gonna rent
theaters out and do a theatrical

release of a film with no visuals.

So they, they did it at this
film festival and it was probably

the coolest project I saw there.

It was just so cool and so well done.

And honestly, um, side note,
like I have a project that I've

been noodling on for like six or
seven years, and now I know that.

Derek and Jordan are good people to,
uh, to work with, to try to develop this

thing because they did that project.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: Cool.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: of overlap
music, music-wise with what this

project I've been thinking about
for years and have never cracked.

And so I'm, I'm gonna work with
Derek and Jordan, be like, Hey man,

here's, here's everything, every
note I have for the last six years.

Come up with something please.

'cause I don't know what this is.

Um, so anyway, that was a cool
thing that happened as well.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
What a great takeaway to say, look,

you know, this festival is, uh, I mean,
any festival or opportunity to meet

together as fellow filmmakers is to
help identify future projects and future

people that you wanna work with and,
um, to try something new like that.

I heard I heard very similar
things about, uh, about, uh,

that show, what is it called?

Eternities.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
and in fact the, uh, the

band Northwestern Stories.

played at the awards,
um, ceremony for Ziff

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
and just blew me away.

I mean, it's this kind of folk music
and really, really cool, um, vibe to it.

And I went and spoke to them
afterwards and just, I mean, they are

an example of an independent band.

It has like a billion
downloads on on Spotify.

It's just insane what they're doing.

And he's just, it's like two
independent guys that have an

incredible gift and talent.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945:
Yeah, well tell, say a little

more about the award ceremony.

I had to come home and be, had to,
I wanted to be home with my kids

instead of being at Z all day again.

So how did that go?

And were there any kind of standout awards
that, um, you were really impressed by?

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: yeah.

I mean, I'll echo your sentiment about,
uh, what a, what a great festival it was

and, and how neat it was to, to come.

Even, even, I just, I.

I showed up, uh, in the last two days.

Um, I had already had an opportunity
to watch the films, watch the features,

um, because I'm on the board and,
and, but was judging in that category.

Um, and so I was just so impressed
with the narrative features.

And there were some great ones.

You know, Spanky Ward had Princess for
a day, and, uh, Tom Durham had, uh, um.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945:
Recipe for love.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
Recipe for love.

You know, these, and these movies
will probably be picked up by,

um, BMG or another distributor.

Um, a uh,

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945:
Yeah, Purdy was there.

BMG was there.

I don't know if there were other
distributors, but I mean, we were

both at places where there were
people actively looking for projects

to pick up or to license or to
distribute, and so pretty cool.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
but I will say that the, uh, the

documentaries were a standout.

And I'm trying to find the card of
uh, people, the one that I saw that

was just amazing and it was a, um,
feature about, um, a motorcycle.

It's called What is, what
was the motorcycle one

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Paradise,

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
ride, ride in Paradise, uh, by Kent.

And, and, um.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: and uh,
so this, this is a husband and wife team

that came out from Georgia or Missouri
or wherever they are, Tennessee, and, uh,

submitted their film and they've got, um,
they have quite an amazing project and uh,

it was neat to be able to see them receive
the Zion's Indie Spirit Award, which

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Oh wow.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
won last year.

In fact, they repeated
our exact pattern, so.

That documentary won, uh, audience
Choice, the Indie Spirit Award, and

it won third Place Judges Choice,
which is what, uh, faith of Angels did

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: I
think we got second for, uh,

audience, for judges' choice.

Third.

Third was the carpenter.

But yeah, we haven't, we haven't
convinced the judges yet, but we've

convinced the audience and the, the,
the people who run the festival.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
It's, yeah.

Uh, but it, it, it was a
standout and it was a great, uh,

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Awesome.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
Michelle and Marshall

always do such a good job.

Chairman was the, uh, mc and he's
just a brilliant, uh, IM, you know,

improver and, great, great talent,

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Nice.

Amazing.

Well, I think award show is our pivot
point into talking about the Oscars.

Look at that.

Two for two.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
the segue

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Let's go.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
amazing.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: All right, so
the 2025 Oscars was also this weekend.

So we were at NRB and
then we were at Ziff.

And then to cap it all off, an amazing
week of film discussions and conversations

and watching movies was the Oscars.

And my goodness, I think we
should just start by saying

indie film showed up this year.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
Yeah, you're not kidding.

I've got, uh, any films.

They led the nominations and wins, right?

Many, uh, these lower budget
movies, the unique storytelling

approaches, they secured the
majority of the top nominations.

I just love that this kind of proves that
this creativity and strong narratives

of continue to outshine these big budget
blockbusters at the Academy Awards.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah,

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: It,

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: let's, let
me just go down a quick list that I

compiled and I hope I'm not missing
any of them, but obviously everyone's

heard that an Nora just kind of swept
the night with five awards, including

four for Sean Baker, like writer,
director, producer, editor, um, conclave.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
Not to interrupt you,

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945:
Yeah, you're good.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
interrupt you because it's fascinating

because in filmmaking there's three
times that the story is told, right?

Writing.

Then it goes to the directing,
then it goes to the editing,

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
fascinating that the auteur model is

still very much alive, where you go, Hey,
the, the more that you can protect that.

space with like individual or at least the
the creator, the better, the better your

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
gonna turn out.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: So we
have a Nora and Sean Baker and we can

probably come back to that, uh, to just.

Talk more about that project and that
director, um, conclave, an indie that

won, uh, brutalist No Other Land,
which is a documentary that won and

Flow, which, uh, is historic because
it's the first independent, produced

or made best animated feature winner.

And so it beat out Wild Robot and
Inside Out too, like these massive

projects, um, project out of Latvia.

And you know, you saw it and lauded
it and I saw it with my son when

it was in theater still 'cause I
wanted to go see it in theatrically

and I was blown away by it too.

So really I've seen, um, 1, 2, 3,
out of the five I need to go see

Brutalist and I need to see no other
land, but I don't think no other

land even has distribution yet.

And yet it's the award
winner for best documentary.

So pretty crazy how that works.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
I think it was a, it was a triumph

for these indie studios, you know,
a 24 and Neon and other independent

studios a major role in the Oscars.

Um,

those, we have access to those
like those studios release.

Films on a similar model that, that, uh,
independent filmmakers can release films.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
so that, that was very encouraging

when, he stood up, Sean Baker stands
up, or the producer stands up at

the end and says, look, we made this
movie for $6 million in New York.

You know, he is just like,
well, that's, um, it's not out

of range for what we're doing.

I've, I've made a movie
before for that range.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah,

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: Um,

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945:
completely in our grasp.

Um,

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: um.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: talk about
a Nora and Sean Baker a little bit.

So this was, I think, Sean's seventh.

Project, seventh feature film.

And, um, I talked about this just
yesterday, um, because at the film Fest

during the, um, the live show, I was
talking a lot about this domino effect or

the domino theory, um, which essentially
just shows that like if you keep doing

projects and you keep the momentum from
one to the next, to the next, to the next,

they can keep growing in size and impact.

And I even charted out
like his trajectory.

So 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.

Feature film the first one in 2000.

So we're almost a 25 year career.

The first project, $80,000
second project, $3,000.

Third project, we don't know what the
budget was, but the fourth 1, 2 35.

The fifth one, a hundred thousand.

It wasn't till his sixth project that
he started getting into seven figure

budgets, so Florida project was 2 million.

Red rocket was 1.1,

and then an Nora for six.

So, but you can see like whether
it's budget or box office or a

number of awards, it just keeps
going up and up and up and up.

It's this crazy curve and to te to cap it
all off, like he personally essentially

won four Oscars, which hadn't been done
and since Walt Disney like decades ago.

And so can we talk about
Sean Baker for a minute?

What are your thoughts on
Sean Baker as a filmmaker?

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
Well, I probably have to, I, I

don't have an opinion, Darren,
'cause I haven't seen his work.

So that's the big disclaimer is I
have not seen an Nora or Tangerine

or, uh, the Florida project.

Did you do Tangerine as well?

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah.

Tangerine was the one that, uh,
was in Sundance a few years ago.

Shot for a hundred thousand
dollars on an iPhone five s with,

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: Yep.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: yeah.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
It's been amazing to see, you know,

I'm, he's, he's been on my radar as
far as like following independent

film and an independent filmmaker.

it's been interesting to see and
his story and his trajectory.

So I don't, I, I can't speak.

My experience with him is, is so minor
that I don't really have an opinion.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: No worries.

Um, I, I did not see, go ahead.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: I will
say this, the Academy often recognizes

films that I don't necessarily support or
that, know, that don't resonate with me.

And so, and I think that that's the
case with many of the films this.

So as we're talking about the wonderful
awards in the academy, um, I'm focusing

more on the independent nature of it
and less about the content of them.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Gotcha.

Yeah, I, I found it interesting
that, uh, an awards ceremony

meant to celebrate films.

There's actually been a lot of
controversy over the last few days that

I've seen pop up online, and there's a
lot of people who are really kind of.

Grossed out, for lack of a better
term, at the choices that were

kind of nominated and then awarded.

And I don't know that I
have an opinion on that.

I think film is film and you
should make what you wanna make.

And if you don't wanna see it,
then don't pay money to go see it.

Like no one's forcing these movies
into your homes or into your eyeballs.

And so I, I tend to take a little
less aggressive stance on some

of those, uh, topics, but I did
think it was interesting that.

Nora, which is a film about the
content that it's about like swept

the night, you know, five awards for
a single film, including best actress

for, uh, is it Mickey or Mikey?

I think it's Mikey Medicine.

Um, just amazing and I've seen the
film and it's well done, but it

wouldn't have been my choice for best.

Those things.

But again, subjective statements and
I think that's what's wonderful about

film, whether it's indie or not.

And what I, I appreciate about
the awards this year is that it's

very clear why indie film exists.

Because you look across the, the
nominations and the award winners

and you go, yeah, these are movies
that studios aren't gonna do.

So we would not have them unless it were
for the indie film ecosystem that exists.

Um, whether it's mid tier or super low
tier, whether it's, you know, a hundred

thousand dollars budgets or $6 million
budgets, doesn't really matter to me.

But these are projects that wouldn't
exist, if not for independently minded

filmmakers and companies that are
supporting and championing those films.

And that's what I'm celebrating,
you know, coming out of this

year's Oscar as this man.

Indie film's getting a lot of awareness
for free right now because it just

swept the awards and that means
there's gonna be more opportunities.

It's gonna be a growing market.

There's gonna be more companies coming
in and looking for original voices and

ambitious projects that can't be told
any other way than through indie films.

So I'm just excited.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
Yeah, I agree.

There's a lot to be excited about, and
I don't think that, um, I mean, we've

seen a variety of Oscar winners over the
years and many independent related films.

Uh, so again, I don't, I don't
know that the, the content is

dependent, uh, you know, is.

Oscar dependent.

I think certainly a good story
with, uh, a, a unique voice in

the very creative space is what
is, what is being celebrated.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah.

Yep.

And I mean the movie did that job of like
pulling you through to the very last scene

it did that it did that job really well.

Like he's a very talented filmmaker
as witnessed by winning four

awards for the four different
jobs that he did on that movie.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
Yeah, loved, I loved, I loved that in

his speech, baker expresses gratitude
for the academy for recognizing,

quote, a truly independent film.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Hmm.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
uh, I think that that was a neat,

obviously that made me excited.

But, um, you know, yeah, to be able to
say this is an independent film and there

is very much a market, uh, for these.

That's encouraging and exciting

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Nice.

Well, he just punched his ticket so
he can come on our show anytime just

because he threw that out there.

So.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
We'll see if we can, we'll see

if we can make room for him.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Awesome man.

Just,

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
Well fun.

Well,

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Such a good
week of indie film, like appreciation,

and anytime I can spend, you know, 20
plus hours in a week consuming and talking

about and interacting and circling around
indie film, that's a pretty good week.

So I just loved everything
we got to do last week.

I'm looking forward to the
follow up from both NRB and Ziff.

I think there's projects that
I'm looking at and there's

people that I met over the week.

Um.

Ooh, I did wanna drop one nice little
nugget that came from Ziff that I

forgot to mention earlier, so they
can put this back in that category,

or we can just talk about it now.

But, um, Alan Blomquist, who's a
longtime producer, has done like

40 projects with studios over the
years, like projects you've heard of.

I'm not gonna rattle them
all off right now, but.

He did kind of the, um, Saturdays
they do a, a really great sit down

where Marshall Moore, who's one of the
co-directors of the festival, sits down

with someone who's like, been in the
industry and has had a lot of impact.

Um.

So he sat down with Alan Blomquist and
he, he gave this really great succinct,

um, kind of description of the different
types of producers and I loved it and

I want to keep talking about it so
that I remember the, the three myself.

So he said that there are give money
producers, there are get money producers.

There are spend money producers.

I was like, man, that is so clean.

That is so perfect.

So spend money producers are like the
producer, the line producer, you know,

people that are spending the money.

The get money producer are
the people raising the money.

So that's a producer.

Sometimes a, you've got co-producers
or coex execs or people that are

doing lending or those kind of things.

And then you got the Give money, which
are kind of your executive producers,

the people that are financing and
lending against the film to make sure

that it can be made and distributed.

So.

So clean.

I loved it.

I was like, I'm gonna use that.

I'm gonna talk about it, I'm
gonna share it with other people.

I didn't wanna forget that one.

So there you go.

And I do think it's kind of a, if
you go in reverse, a lot of us start

as the spend money producers and
then we kind of graduate or progress

into the Get Money producers.

'cause we've done enough to where we can
go out and raise money for projects and

we kind of understand how it all works.

And so we're now having conversations
with the Get Money producers.

Or the give money producers.

And then if you're really, I shouldn't
say lucky, if you're really, um,

focused and you're focused on being
profitable and making money on every

movie, well you can turn around and
start being the give money producers.

And I look at like the DPL Brothers
as a good example of this, where they

started out doing indie films and then
they started raising money for any

films and now they're kind of self
financing all their projects because.

It's better for them to do it
that way than to wait and ask for

permission from the give money people
or producers to give them money.

So I love it.

Love it, love it.

Wanted to make sure I shared that.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: that,
does that mean they went full circle?

'cause now they're spend money producers

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah.

They're spending their own
money that they gave themselves.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
their own money.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: That is
a, that's, you know, that what, it's

just a perfect circle at that point.

It's, it's like a perpetual motion, right?

Like

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
Complete.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: just
keep doing the thing and now

you don't need anyone else.

You're completely self-contained.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: Yeah.

that, yeah, that what a great,
uh, great concept that is to

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
Um, I love it.

Darren, thank you very much.

It's a little bit shorter
episode, but thank, uh, so

great to do this together again.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Yeah, agreed.

We've got some good guest lined up.

I met one or two people at Ziff that
we are gonna have on in the coming

weeks and talk to some more indie
filmmakers who are in the same kind

of development process that we're in,
raising money, putting projects together.

So it's gonna be a ton of fun.

Looking forward to it.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: to,
I need to, I need to mention her name

is Margot, the production accountant.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945:
Yes, Margot, she's awesome.

Um, she was the one who,

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: Ransom.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: she's the
one who turned me on to, uh, NRB,

and I asked you, Hey, are you going?

There's this gal that's putting together
a, a meetup and she's talking to us about

being there, and then you booked your
ticket like the next day or the same day.

And I'm like, I don't even
know if I'm going, dude.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944: It
was a, it was a two witnesses model.

'cause Yeah, Cameron ETT had
said, Hey, you should go to this.

And then

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Oh, nice.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
you gonna NRB?

I'm like, okay, I better, I
better, if I wanna do this for a

career, I better take it seriously.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: I love.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
and I'm glad I did.

I also reconnected with, um, film Frog.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Hey, nice.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
um, helpful on, uh, marketing

faith of angels and the carpenter.

And so it was fun to have a little
sit down with Brandon and his wife.

And, um,

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Nice.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
uh, we'll reconnect and, uh, at,

uh, CinemaCon here next month.

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: Very cool.

All right, man.

Take it easy.

Another good episode.

Hey, if you listen and you like
today's episode, do us a favor

and share it with your friends.

Like, go leave us a review on wherever
you watch or listen to this and, uh,

tell your friends about the show.

It's growing slowly but surely, and
every time someone mentions it, a uh, a

filmmaker gets its wings, so, you know.

garrett-batty_1_03-04-2025_101944:
budget, gets craft services.

right,

daren_7_03-04-2025_101945: All right.

Thanks.

Thank you for listening to this
episode of Truly Independent.

To join us on the journey,
be notified of and ask us

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