S2 EP17 | Navigating the Indie Film Journey with Rally Caps Creators
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: And then
he brought me this mo, this one.
I said, I'm not gonna read the book.
And he said, it's baseball.
I said, okay.
It is kids.
Okay.
It's camp.
Okay, done.
I know how to market this.
This is Truly Independent, a show that
demystifies the indie film journey by
documenting the process of releasing
independent films in theaters.
Each week, Garrett Batty and I,
Darren Smith, will update you
on our journey, bringing guests
to share their insights into the
process and answer your questions.
daren-smith_1_03-18-2025_110754:
All right.
Welcome everyone.
Garrett, it's exciting to be here
with you and our guests Today.
We have Lee and Catherine who are
the writer, director, producer
team behind the movie Rally Caps.
Welcome you two.
It's so good to see you.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: Thank you.
Nice.
Have been here.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: It is
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754:
Garrett, great to be here.
Thanks for having us.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: good
to, good to connect with you, Darren.
Nice to see you again.
Hopefully you've had a good week.
Uh, we've had some good comments on, uh,
last week's episode, so thank you very
much to our listeners for continuing to
listen and support and share and comment.
We love hearing the feedback and we try
to address each question on each episode.
daren-smith_1_03-18-2025_110754:
That is very, very true.
Um, so today we're excited to have this
conversation because we just recently
saw your guys' film Rally caps at the
Zion's Indie Film Fest, and I saw it
and then came downstairs and instantly
wanted to meet you two to say, can
we please have you on our podcast?
'cause a, it's a great movie.
B, I'm sure there's a lot that went into
the story behind getting it developed and
financed and produced and distributed.
And so that's what we're
here to talk about today.
These are two filmmakers who have done
it, who have made a movie and it's
now available to watch to the masses.
So why don't we start with a little
bit of background on two, tell us
about your story and uh, you know,
this is what your fourth movie.
So maybe give us a little bit
of background before we get
into the story of rally caps.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah, rally
caps is my fourth, uh, feature directing.
I've produced and edited
a bunch of other films.
Kathy and I have collaborated on
several types of media content.
This is our second feature together,
and yeah, it's, it's spanned 15 years,
15 to 20 years of work in the industry,
and we've also, both of us, I'll let
Catherine speak for herself, but.
One of our biggest assets is that we've
lived, uh, we've worked on under a lot
of, we've worn a double, a bunch of
different hats, um, in the process.
Not just directing and producing, but
before that, pretty much everything
there is to do on a film set.
So that's like my first word of
advice for people is, you know, get
as much experience, um, living in
every position's, shoes, and that will
make you a better, a better leader.
daren-smith_1_03-18-2025_110754: Awesome.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: Um, I, I'm
Catherine and I started in a marketing,
actually, well, I started as a pa.
I went all the way to coordinating,
uh, then, uh, pm yeah.
UPM Unit production manager,
and then to producing.
When we moved to la I end up
in marketing for some reason.
So I started working as soon as
I learned marketing, I said, any
producer needs to learn marketing.
is like, for me, as soon as I got
into that world, I was like, be
able to see, uh, the film industry
in a completely different way.
And that was very, very helpful for me.
So then I start con uh, having
those hats of every time I produce.
I have that marketing hat
where I can actually, um, see
how can I sell this movie?
Um, and you can put, you can sell
it and you can put a heart as well.
And I think that Rally caps
is a good example of, uh, a
remarkable movie with a heart.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yes.
Yeah, absolutely.
Uh, and I mean, speaking of
marketing, I, I mentioned that I.
My first encounter with rally caps
was actually out at NRB, where
it was being marketed or promoted
or, or discussed, or talked about.
And then, uh, I was, I'm a, I'm a
judge for Zion Z Film Fest, and this
caps here pops up in my, in my, uh.
to judge, and I just thought,
oh, what a fun movie.
And, uh, so then when we finally
met at the festival, I already
felt like I had, uh, ex, you know,
uh, sort of connection to you all.
Uh, so yeah, it's exciting to talk to you.
I wanna ask real quick,
I wanna dial in on that.
Why, uh, Catherine does producer,
should every producer marketing or,
or have that, that, that immediately
caught my attention when he said that.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yes, it's, it's
just that you need to know your audience.
I mean, when you're reading, at the
end of the day, this is show business.
Is, uh, is a business and,
uh, a movie is a product.
we can have products that inspire,
we can have products that, um, can
give good messages, but at the end
of the day, as a producer, you need
to know how to sell your product.
Who's the audience?
Um, where can I take it?
Um, the, the beauty about is what,
what is happening nowadays is
that there's different audiences.
everything we have, like you can create
anything, but it has a way better idea.
how to market something.
When you take a script, for example,
Lee brought the script to me and
as soon as I took the script, put
my marketing, said, you know what?
I can mark, I can literally
market this movie.
I gave him notes based on marketing.
Like I said, you know what?
It would be better if I can put this
product here or like product placement.
I was thinking about product placement.
I was thinking about a sponsorship.
I was thinking about, um.
About, like for example, it's
like, okay, for example, we need
more diversity here because I can
sell it in different countries.
what is the United States,
for example, for distribution?
A lot of people says,
oh my God, this is just.
A United States movie
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: he is
like, you know, it's just baseball,
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754:
summertime, kids baseball.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754:
no, but it's a family movie.
It's a
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Wow.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: movie.
When you, like we got somebody from
Germany asking us about the movie, and
he's like, I know how to market this movie
in Germany because he's beyond baseball.
So those kind of things.
When you put your marketing
hat the script level and you
collaborate with the, the writer.
You can literally start seeing
without sacrificing his vision.
That's one of the beauties of working
with Lee because he's very open mind.
He's not that kind of writer or director
that's like, no, I'm not gonna my script.
I'm not gonna change anything.
No, he was actually really open and he
trusts me a lot in the marketing side.
So when he, when I was giving him notes,
he's like, oh, well that's a good idea.
And sometimes he would say.
No, you know what?
I don't want to change this.
So I would give him different
options to not sacrifice his vision.
And I think that is what is
important about knowing marketing.
As a producer, I.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754:
how do you.
How do you balance Lee that, um, you
know, desire that, yeah, let's pay
attention to the marketing or we, we
obviously want to sell, make the film
sellable, but also protecting that
creative vision or, you know, this is
the story I want to tell and it might
not involve, you know, product placement.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah, I, I think
the first thing is to get over yourself
as a creative and not take things to
not make, precious about your work.
It is your baby, but not too precious.
You, you don't want to be,
uh, a helicopter parent.
What's great about Kathy is that
she has a creative head as well.
Uh, she read, she started in LA
reading lots of scripts for Warner
Brothers and breaking them down so she
understands like the writer's pipe.
She understands stories.
So like
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Okay.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: great for
all facets to know the other side.
So working with people that understand
the other side, but also are just
really brilliant at what they do, um,
and sort of finding a happy medium.
Uh, I think as a creative, it's really.
Uh, and writers really know this.
They're always trying to
hone in on a theme, right?
What is movie about?
What are you trying to
say with this movie?
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: it can
be about aliens, it could be
about kids playing baseball.
It could be about whatever,
two people talking in a room.
But what is it really trying to say?
Like, once you've centered
on that, there's a lot of
different, uh, iterations of.
The way that, that you can portray that
or tell that story and get that theme,
and so, so being open to like, hey, okay.
Um, for instance.
We had to move a location, but we could
still have the characters say the same
thing and, and, um, perform the same
function in, in the, in, in the story if
the, those pieces can be moved around,
um, without sacrificing the integrity.
Um, but you know, that's not always easy
when you're putting two different minds
together that, like, if someone wants
to grab a big sponsor and it's gonna,
you know, pull in a bunch of money, um.
But, and, and, or they need to
sell to a certain demographic,
but they need to change this.
That's where it gets tricky.
But you have, as a creative, you
really have to the bigger picture.
Um, but not sacrifice the integrity.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754:
Yeah, it's a, it's a delicate
balance and it's awesome.
What, what great in, in insight to say,
you know, to be able to work with somebody
that has that marketing intelligence,
but also knows the writer's plight.
Uh, what a, yeah.
daren-smith_1_03-18-2025_110754: When
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754:
that's super
daren-smith_1_03-18-2025_110754: and
from the very beginning too, right?
Not just at the end, once the movie's made
and going, how are we gonna market this?
Like the fact that you're doing
that from the script stage, from
the development stage is huge.
So maybe we start there.
Where did this story, how did
this story find you or how did
you find this story of rally caps?
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: So I just wanna
touch on a point you just made there, and
I think that's really, really important.
Uh, a big lesson that I learned, uh,
as an indie filmmaker, as a grassroots
filmmaker, whatever you wanna call it.
the entry point to any project.
Even at the idea stage, you should
start thinking about marketing.
Right?
And that's not to say like, oh, you
know, I have this great idea, but I'm
gonna sacrifice everything because
it's like, it's gotta fit into a genre.
No.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Right.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: an
indie, you know, uh, uh, you know,
obscure indie film idea, then
that's what you should lean into.
Like, Hey, I think this is something
that could possibly go to Sundance, or
whatever the, you know, the big goal
is, but like, it's, that's what it is.
And then you start marketing that.
Um, and it's such a big, that that
really can shape and mold your story,
the way you make the movie and all
of that stuff, but really getting
in on the entry at the idea level.
So just to just kind of
like reiterate that point.
That's, that's super important
because I think a lot of times people
try to pivot later when it's too
late and that's when things derail.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: Well, just
to answer the question is like, and and
following Lee is that when he actually,
he had an idea to write a script.
He brought me another book and
the book, he said, oh my God.
And he was super excited about this book.
I read the book and I said, Lee,
I don't know how to market this.
It's an amazing book.
Beautiful, but literally.
Screen I cannot market.
And he was so disappointed.
And then he's like, okay.
It's like, and then I, we play the,
that he has to give me a, um, if, if
he really likes the book, I will read
the book, but if not an elevator pitch.
And when he brought me a first
book, he's like, no, I, I
don't know how to market this.
And then he brought me this mo, this one.
I said, I'm not gonna read
the, not gonna read the book.
And he said, it's baseball.
I said, okay.
It is kids.
Okay.
It's camp.
Okay, done.
I know how to market this.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: the original
project that she's talking about was
kind of like a Goonies idea, was a book
that, um, I was trying to adapt and
like I was in love with it because of
like the kids and the story and like
the adventure, but like it actually
really wasn't marketable in its plot.
And so like there was a big.
You know, 'cause like the whole
plot is like, you can't reveal
what happens at the end, whatever.
Not to get too much into it, but,
uh, Kathy looked at it right away and
she's like, I'm glad you're having
fun with this, but you cannot market
something that, like, you can't
show some sort of, uh, creature in
the trailer or like, you have to,
what's the promise of the premise?
It's like, you know, you go to
watch, uh, Jurassic Park, like if you
didn't know it was about dinosaurs,
you wouldn't be going to see it.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: there.
Um, so yeah.
So circling back to rally caps.
I, I always wanted to work in that space.
Like I'm a huge fan of the Sandlot
Field of Dreams, those nineties
era you know, kids baseball films,
rookie of the year, all that stuff.
So I always wanted to work in that space.
I, it was 2020 when I started
the script and it was right,
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Covid.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: uh,
when the pandemic started
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Wow.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: and I
had a bunch of other projects that
had been developing for years.
I was writing.
Specs for my manager and for
years and years I couldn't get any
of these things off the ground.
But um, yeah, I was kind of writing
an assignment, all that stuff I.
And then the pandemic hit everything
closed down and it was like, okay,
we're gonna, and a lot of my colleagues
were like, okay, we're just gonna
kind of hunker down, figure out how
to make a movie about two people
in the cabin and go shoot that.
Right?
Like that was the big thing.
And you know, I was on sort of that
train, but I was like, I don't really
have any ideas, so maybe I'll just write
something that I would love to make.
Um, and that is not my quote
that is Jordan Peel's quote.
'cause I, I saw him speaking and
he said that like, you know, and
it's so simple but so profound.
Like, write what you would like to see.
And I realized at that point I
had never done that in my career.
I was always trying to
write what I thought.
Like the industry needed or what
would get sold or like, Hey, you
know, this great movie just happened.
I could write something like that and
like, it'll be the next version of that.
No, no, no.
Like you really like Yeah.
Right from your heart, but also like,
what would you really be excited to see?
And so Rally Caps was a book written
by a, a mother, uh, sorry, a father
daughter team, uh, Steven Cutler
and, and Jody Michelle Cutler,
based on their own experiences.
It's an amalgamation.
Of experiences.
Um, it, Steven is Jordy who goes
through the injury, that that's
what happened to him in real life.
And, uh, Jody, uh, based the character
of Lucas after her own son, um, who,
uh, wore a cochlear implant and was a
catcher and a baseball player you know,
so had this really dynamic relationship.
But the backdrop was kids camped,
baseball sandlot, and I'm like.
You know, um, Steven had sent me
the, the book years and years ago
when it was published in 2007.
We had stayed in touch.
He was very, very, um, um, motivated
to make it, to say the least.
But making a baseball kids
film is quite expensive.
And now we're talking about the pandemic.
So like, making it like
really wasn't on my mind.
It was just an excuse to write something
in a space that I wanted to, you know,
a sandbox that I wanted to play in.
And so I wrote, you know, we, we
started adapting it and I went through
a couple of different drafts, and this
is something that, like, I had talked
about making at some point, maybe
like, kind of a pipestream, I really,
um, just wanted to just to write it.
And it was for fun and I thought it
was just gonna go in my digital folder.
we don't, you know, have printed
out scripts anymore, right?
Like, but like, just the, the proverbial.
Sit in the, the drawer and
never be touched again.
And just a fun project.
Right.
uh, I had, I was working with my manager
on several other things months later, and
I told him that like I was just, you know,
kind of messing around and play, you know,
writing this little script or whatever.
So he had other five other scripts that
was, he was reviewing and he is like,
all right, yeah, throw it in, whatever.
I wanna read everything
that you're, working on.
And about a week later he
comes back and he's like, Lee.
You gotta make rally caps, like, and he
had never had that like sort of enthusiasm
before as much as he supported my work.
But he was like, he's like, no rally
caps you got, I'm like, really?
anyway, so long story short, um, I know
I've said that a couple of times and
I'm making it longer, but the script,
just like for the first time really in
my life, like from the script point, it
was exciting people and everyone was.
Really feeling the vibe, the,
the retro vibe of, you know,
of, of the classic baseball kids
movie, but done in a modern way.
I, I, I like to pitch it as
an indie character driven
version of the, of the Sam
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: with a little
bit of field of Dreams, uh, mixed in and
definitely some other references, but
everyone was picking up on that vibe.
And over the course of
like six months, we.
We started to get investors,
uh, Curtis Pry who plays.
Uh, uh, he plays himself in the movie.
His children are Curtis, I'm
sorry, his children are, Lucas
and Nikki play those roles.
Um, you know, he was involved
with Major League Baseball.
He got them on board, so b
you know, brick by Brick.
It just came together, um, pretty
quickly and it, that had never
really happened before for me.
So like, obviously it wasn't easy,
but it just sort of was this.
Universal order that came into play
that just things started to, um, just,
just to come together and before we
knew what we were shooting this movie,
uh, in the pandemic with, when you're
supposed to have isolated locations
and know, one character, two characters
at most, we are going to a camp,
fully functioning camp with 15 kids.
And their parents and like baseball
scenes and all this, and all, all
on like a, basically a micro budget.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: I, I, you know,
I joke to people, I might as well have
just written in a talking dog at that
point just to really spice things up.
but yeah, it, it, it, it didn't
make sense, but wanted it
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754:
Well, you pulled it off.
You definitely, you
definitely pulled it off.
so congratulations on that.
What, how did the funding come together?
You said it was some, uh, different
independent investors, or were there
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: things?
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
So I'll let Kathy speak more a little
bit on maybe the business aspect and,
and how, um, because I want, you know,
I want to be informative for your, your
viewers on like pitfalls that we ran into.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754:
Whatever, whatever you're
willing to share too.
'cause we don't want,
uh, we certainly know the
daren-smith_1_03-18-2025_110754: Well,
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: was,
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: of.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754:
everything was legal.
daren-smith_1_03-18-2025_110754: yes.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: I promise.
daren-smith_1_03-18-2025_110754: But
like what the director, the director's
version of like, we, we got the green
light and everybody liked it and
then we were shooting and like the
producer's going, there was a lot of
work that went between those two steps.
So Catherine, ending it over to
you, how did that actually happen?
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: fair.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: Well,
number one, when, when we start
seeing number one, I was not
gonna be part of this project.
daren-smith_1_03-18-2025_110754: Hmm.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: when I
start seeing that he was a director,
writer, and then a producer, I
said, you can't do this by yourself.
then I saw him so motivated
and said, you know what, uh,
it would be nice to help him.
I came on board and the, the,
the moment that I actually got
on board was because of sag.
We needed.
we were supposed to be
just this indie film.
And as soon as we got Amy and
Jad Hir, Amy Smart and Jad Hir,
everything started being a snowball.
And it start, and then you,
we were supposed not to shoot
like, um, with Zach or anything.
It was very indie.
And as soon as they came
on board, became sac.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: So I just
want to like, you know, I'm gonna let
you finish Catherine, as you should,
but I just want to interrupt for a
second because that is a huge pitfall,
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yes.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: as a
director that's just gung ho about
like, putting the pieces together.
Oh my God.
Jug wants to be in your movie.
Judd Hearst wants to be in your movie.
Amy's smart.
These are great things, but like,
it's not as simple as just, I mean.
you're best friends with a name actor
and they wanna be in it and they
wanna produce the film and pull the
resources in, that's one scenario.
But just because an actor like says
yes to your script doesn't mean
like, oh, let's you know, schedule
the date and let's rock and roll.
You have to put money into escrow as a
producer, pay and play, all that stuff.
And I'm saying this because.
You know, we didn't go into this,
uh, with the budget that we,
uh, ultimately ended up having.
We were gonna make a micro project project
and we thought we could just, you know,
shoot our main stars and figure everything
else out, and didn't know really all
the logistics of working with unions.
And that's where things got
really, really stressful.
So for filmmakers that are
doing grassroots and are lucky
enough to get named talent.
They really need to understand screen
actors guild, all those things work.
Because before you know it, could
be spiraling downward, and we
almost got shut down several times.
And the stakes in that is not just like
everyone goes home and it doesn't happen.
It's that you've got investors'
money in the bank escrow that's
going to just dissipate and go
nowhere with nothing to show for it.
And so that's where really
the big stress comes in.
Sorry, Catherine, you can finish.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: as you can
hear, I came to the most stressful
times where he is like, literally, he's
like, he says, okay, we have some money.
And he is like, okay, some
money not to finish the movie.
So then, uh, one of the, the biggest
challenges we have is like, okay,
we did this escrow for Amy and John.
But the biggest challenge it was,
we didn't have the SAC paperwork.
Usually you have six weeks to, like
eight weeks to do SAC paperwork.
We literally were two weeks.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: like
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: we were like
two weeks, three weeks before we should,
and then we were rushing, thank God we
had a friend of, uh, of ours that, um,
she actually, uh, has worked with sex.
So she is an independent contractor.
I hire for her knowledge of how
to do paperwork really fast.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: And there
were so many times when she's like, guys,
if you do this, there's no way back.
And literally, uh, I remember, um,
Zach called me and said, you guys
are not gonna be able to shoot.
And Lee literally was with Amy.
Smart.
Planning how to shoot in three days.
I had no, like literally Zach telling
me, you guys are not gonna shoot.
it was super stressful.
And then finally I was
able to like literally, I.
Uh, I think that he was already in
la he was going to ready to shoot
and the day before is where Zach gave
me a green light before he shoot.
I was like, literally, it was horrible.
It was like 5:00 PM my time.
And then he's like, we're closing at five.
You have five minutes
to sign this paperwork.
And I had to run to one place,
to another one, sign it.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: doing a
full-time job, by the way, when
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
I mean,
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754:
sees that on, on producers.
Nobody sees the stress.
That is like, Lee, number one, my goal.
My main goal is to protect him from,
he doesn't need to know everything.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: needs to
keep his integrity of creativity.
The problems that we face as producers
is my problem, my challenge to deal with
personalities, to deal with contracts,
finances, not to give him any worry.
He knew that there was, was something
happening and then he was sweating it.
But then at the end I said,
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: knew,
like I didn't know everything,
but just what I knew was enough
to like give me a heart attack.
So good thing I didn't know
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: but
then at the end we were able to.
Shoot with screen actors, like
they gave us a green light,
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: but then
we face, the other thing is that,
uh, we didn't know that we had
to put a, uh, deposit, a, a bond
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah, it's.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: in, in
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: them to
be, to protect the actors because
they, we didn't have the full budget.
And that is like, okay,
we have this budget.
We pay, we have an escrow for Amy and.
Now we have to pay this bond.
And
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754:
bond is something that you live
there until the movies end.
So it's like literally.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: of
people don't know that you have
to do this before you start.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah,
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754:
have to budget that in.
And so we didn't know.
so like that bond came out of the budget
that we thought we had, and suddenly
we were left with, um, I, I'm not
gonna give the specific number, but it,
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754:
it's a chunk.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: probably,
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754:
It's an amount.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: a joke.
It was, in our case, it was what
Kathy would say, like 30, 40%
of our budget, something like
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754:
would say 25% of the budget.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: money
back and put it back into the
budget within a week to shoot.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: So,
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: So
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: so
I mean, it seems like, headaches with
SAG or you or whatever are No, uh, you
know, that's not a rare occurrence.
That is a, you're making a
movie, embrace this headache.
Uh, so my question to you for,
for independent filmmakers,
is it, is it worth it?
I mean, you got Judd Hirsch and Amy
Smart in your movie, which is incredible.
were so good and so fun to watch.
And
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: I mean,
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: is it,
is that opening doors for distribution?
Like, is that, is it worth the headache?
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754:
Definitely it, it opens doors
and it definitely was worth it.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Okay.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: The thing
is that, what I would recommend
everybody is like literally do your,
like, do the paperwork in advance, like
prepare yourself when you are doing
like, um, when you're looking for.
Talent, uh, make sure that you have like
the budget, because honestly we would not
have them if we would not had a budget.
Uh, we already knew we would, we told
them that we had investors already.
And um, and there it is very like
the, the way we negotiate that was
like, we have this amount of money
we negotiated and they were in.
Um, one of the biggest challenges
we face is that our budgets
start going down, down, down.
And we shot.
The first, the first things was with
John and and Amy, then we had a month to
raise the rest of the money to continue
shooting because we had no money,
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: was the most
stressful month because literally you
have to like start thinking, how can
I get more money to finish this movie?
Because already investors.
Sure.
I mean the, as soon as Jot and her, like
when we were start trying to get more
money, yes, you can present what we were
shooting, like to do a little teaser to
present it, and then people got on board.
But that was very stressful.
And then, um, product placement,
you told them, and then that's where
product placement probably started.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: I would just
say, yeah, to, you know, Garrett, like
absolutely it's worth, we all know
that it's worth having name talent,
especially like very talented name actors
that can elevate the film creatively,
marketability, like all those things.
And then you add in an Academy Award
nominee like Judd Hirsch, who's just loved
in the industry, uh, that kind of thing.
And I, I, Amy Smart's
been in, in a bunch of.
Pretty, um, really, really
big movies over the years, and
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: popular
and also incredibly talented.
That's just a, you know, um, she, I
don't always thinks that she gets the
opportunities to showcase her skills.
Um,
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: but anyway,
yeah, it, you know, this is all more about
being prepared for what it takes to have.
them in your film.
Like we, like we were saying, we were not
entirely prepared to take on everything
and so it became really stressful.
So when you're attach talent,
know that, you know, it elevates
the film, but also there's a lot
of more pieces that come into
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yes.
And also I just wanted to let them
know that it is, like, if you get
a, an, an, a well-known actor, no
matter how big or A, B, or C, you
will have to deal with the agents.
have more in your budget food, they're
flying if you're flying them somewhere.
Uh, for marketing purposes, after
the movie, if you want to go to
a festival, you have to put some
kind, some something in the budget
that accounts like they're flying.
They're, they're
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: per diem.
Like there's so many things
that you would not think.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754:
memo to new filmmakers.
They're not your, like, you know, when
you put like your uncle in the film or
something, or your past friend in it.
Like just be, you know, if you're
lucky enough for them to like
the role enough and agree to it.
Like you can't expect them
to come and like, sleep in
a, a guest room of your house
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: do
whatever it takes to make the movie
like that is not professional.
But you'd be surprised
more often than not.
when that, you know, that happens
and people are surprised by
all of these variables that,
uh, are, are very expensive.
And not just that, but time consuming.
So there's a reason when you go and
see a Hollywood set, it's not like two
people in a camera and like shooting.
It's
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754:
a circus.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754:
honey wagons, like
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: lots are taken
up and all this stuff because you have
to build a comfort zone for people.
Um, so.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: is
an, it's such an interesting space to
be in too, because they want to work.
I mean, the actors, you know, j
Hirsch, uh, it sounds like, I mean,
when he shot your movie and then the
next day got on a plane, didn't you
tell me this, that next day he went
on a plane to shoot, uh, fable Man's.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: he shot the Fable
men's, uh, uh, I believe a week after
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: ours.
But what what did happen
was when I met Judd.
We, uh, started talking about the
script and I met him at his hotel
in the lobby, and then he was like,
um, can you just give me an hour?
I have to go talk to
Steven Spielberg on Zoom.
then afterwards, we can work
on the script a little bit.
Don't go anymore.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754:
You say, yeah, I'll come with you.
Let's go.
Let's go.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
I told, I told him no, forget
him, like we're working right now.
Like, no, I,
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: That.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: not,
I would never work again.
Um, no.
I, I, I was hoping he'd invite me to,
to come up with him and say hi, but,
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754:
That's right.
Yeah.
Why not?
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: I
would've gotten in the way.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754:
That, uh, I guess, yeah.
yes, they want to work
these professional actors.
Any actor wants to work and if you
obviously have an amazing story
or a, a fantastic script that
drew that caught their attention.
But yes, and I think that there
is, that you, you hire the
actor, you hire the circus, but
there is a need for that, right?
Because the actor then has to be protected
and it can't be Judd that is saying.
I don't wanna sleep in
your aunt's bedroom.
Like, like, you gotta take care of me.
daren-smith_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754:
the agent has to do.
They have to say, Judd will
do your movie and you will get
a hundred percent from Judd.
In order to do that though, let's
make sure that he's taken care of.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yep.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754:
And we saw the same thing with,
uh, with actors in our films.
And, as, as hard as a pill that
is to swallow sometimes as a
producer, it, it, it's worth it.
Like it's what you do
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yes.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754:
that now I.
Your movie turns people's heads.
They go, wow, this, this is a
legitimate with or movie with
Academy Award nominated actors in it.
It's pretty cool.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: you absolutely
have to, know, separate the show from the
business, as Kathy was saying earlier,
and you know, when you're, when know Amy
and Judd, like when I actually met them
and they were on set, it was, we were
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: I see.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: lucky,
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: to have
people that were just like, you
know, they're the opposite of.
Uh, prima donna's or needing any, like,
they didn't, weren't needy at all.
They actually hung out on set
more often than in their trailers.
They liked being around people,
like just whatever you needed.
Like they got what, you know,
once they were on the set, like
they understood where were.
Where, where we were at as a
production that we were flying by
the seat of our pants and they jumped
on and said, you know, let's go.
Uh, Judd was, uh, reciting King Lear
in between takes, like he was in a much
better, more jovial mood than I was.
Like, I was like so stressed out.
So he was like keeping everyone calm.
So it's not like all the business
aspects that they come with is not like.
Has nothing to do with them
as people and as artists.
It's just the professional
way of doing things.
And once again, I just reiterate like this
is, we're talking about people working
on a micro budget and all that stuff.
Like can't just throw them into your film.
Like it's, you know, all these things
have to come into place and is it worth
it without a doubt, but, you know,
daren-smith_1_03-18-2025_110754: Awesome.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754:
get your paperwork in order.
daren-smith_1_03-18-2025_110754: Um, very
cool story, how that all came together and
yeah, to see those two actors in the movie
was like, oh, you guys pulled it off.
That's awesome.
So, um, just for the sake of your guys'
time, I want to say let's maybe fast
forward a bit to your movie's done.
Now, what are you doing?
You're focusing on distribution, you're
focusing on marketing, you're focusing
on how are we gonna get this out into
the world, get our investors money back?
What does that kind of look like?
Catherine, speak to us about.
Your role throughout the whole thing.
You were thinking about marketing
from the beginning, so how did that
show up throughout the process?
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah, well,
it's, it's fascinating, uh, and I
continue learning every single day.
One of the, the biggest challenges,
um, looking for distribution
is some people said, Hey, you
don't have big actors enough.
I.
daren-smith_1_03-18-2025_110754: Hmm.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754:
distribute it was, it was shocking.
I was like, what?
Okay, well take a deep
breath and keep going.
then it is like, okay, somebody, this
movie, for some reason, as a producer,
it was always something happening that
we're like, we're gonna shut down.
And something happening like literally.
Miracles were happening.
Like Lee says, we were always
in the bottom of the ninth, like
literally something happened
to keep us moving forward.
So I was start trusting the universe
and say like, okay, well we are going
to find a home for distribution.
And we went to many people and,
and honestly, what I, my biggest
advice is, uh, talk to different
people, to different distributors.
Don't believe just one
person that is going to.
Um, open the door and like,
honey, your ears, like, there's
a lot of that is intel on it.
Like the, the way you have to
negotiate with distributors, uh, they
have to recu some marketing money.
So all that kind of negotiation, you need
to be aware of who does what in a better
way so you can pay your investors later.
of the biggest disappointments that
we have seen so far is marketing.
He is like, yeah, well we are
now distributing, like we have
distribution now, but okay, we're out
there and now nobody sees our movie.
And that is one of the things
that we are like right now facing
he is like everybody's dream
is to get into distribution.
Okay, amazing.
We got it.
But now what we're facing is there's
20,000 titles out there in the platform
and who is going to find your movie?
one of the biggest challenges
and the people don't understand
is the way distributors work is
like your movie's not a special.
They bring 20, 30, 50 movies as a
bulk to sell it to somebody else.
So you are just a product
and they sell it in bulk.
It's not that they're, you, your
movie is so special that they're
going to like literally take care
of you and, uh, and they're going
to do all this marketing for you.
No.
Um, so that is one of the things that,
how to navigate with how to overcome.
How to become like in the algorithm
or whatever we are to be the top and
people start seeing us and that is where
we are still learning how to do that.
One of the biggest challenges, and that is
one of the things that I be, I was telling
from the beginning, everybody, when you
work in teams, sometimes uh, they don't
listen to you, is put a marketing budget.
your budget, you have to have marketing,
dollars in there because that's
one of the challenges right now.
Yes, uh, the distributor is going to do
their best in some kind of budgeting of
budget, but it's not too much It would
be nice if we had our own dollars to
spend in also supporting that marketing,
budget to put it out there from social
media to like display, like any Google
ads and all that stuff to support that.
So your movie can be shown.
one of the biggest things that we had, um.
have an A product placement,
which was Phac, um, the
cochlear implant, uh, company.
they have millions and millions of
And you know, so marketing wise,
they were, we partnered with them
of like, okay, how can they help us?
To, um, be, to get aware, um,
to have some, some awareness.
Well, they did their part.
Uh, we actually put Amy Smart in
big, um, some big, um, in the View,
for example, she was in the View
and, uh, it was millions of viewers.
how you find rally caps in
the outdoor out there, uh.
Right now we're at Peacock, but um, that
probably will change in a couple of weeks.
it's like, it's like, and that
is the thing, it's a game.
Like, it's like, for example, some
distribution is like, okay, you have
exclusivity for four months in Peacock
right now, but now there's changing pea.
Somebody else is now
wanted the exclusivity.
So it's changing all the time.
I feel that.
The, the biggest thing is marketing
is how people can see my movie.
How are we, um, making people
be aware that we exist?
I.
We don't drown in all these
amount of titles in a platform.
So that's where we are
navigating right now.
And we are still, like, I came like to
the distributor I feel that this movie is
very grassroots, um, movie where literally
you can go to little leagues, you can,
that's where creativity in marketing
comes up, where you can literally partner
with little leagues, you can partner with
MLB, you can partner with different kind
of things to like make it more aware.
But it's very grassroots.
the challenge with that is, um,
the problem is that now I will
have to go on tour with a movie
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: like, that's
not happening because we continue
moving forward in other projects.
The other thing is word of mouth.
Word of mouth is the best marketing,
however, is like, how can we continue
the word of mouth of like, um.
With people.
It's like you have to have a community.
And that is one of the things that, um,
has been challenging because we all have,
as an independent, we have other jobs.
We have, um, we have other projects.
And once you finish the movie,
I, how can continue the marketing
when you have, you're so busy now.
In other parts of your life.
So that is the biggest challenge of
how to balance your life when the
project finishes and not just give
it to a distributor and that's it.
it is like, how can I
continue doing marketing?
That is where I'm navigating right now.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: Absolutely.
You, I think
a lot of filmmakers, they,
they, they go and get the golden
goose, which is to raise money.
I.
Or to get resources and just to get
their project off the, the ground,
and then production like, which.
Massive part of it, which is you're
just trying to make your day and
get it shot in the can and finished.
And so you go and get
the golden goose again.
And then it's like post-production.
Can we finish?
Like can we figure like raise more money?
We have, we raised, have we lost,
you know, resources and budget.
Now we have to like raise more
money, go and get the golden goose,
finish it, finish it, and then
like it's finished and it goes to a
festival and like, okay, that's it.
Right.
Like that's, I've gotten
like 10 golden gooses.
I sold my house.
We're good to go.
Give, we got distribution and
it's something No, no, no.
point, like that's really the start
of the work in the sense that you need
to be very involved with marketing
and not in a controlling way, not
when you're, you know, being precious
about your film and telling the
distributor how it needs to be marketed.
No, they're, they're the brains of the
operation or whoever's doing marketing.
They're, that's their
per, you know, that's.
the brains of that operation.
But you need to be a big part of it.
Bring as many resources as
you can, it's partnership.
if you just leave it and set it and
forget it, and you think that the
distributor's going to have the bandwidth
to like focus on your film enough to
do everything, like that's just not
the world we're living in anymore.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: Unless
you're talking about the Big 10
pole films, but those are like, you
know, they have marketing budgets.
It's like, it's a whole different,
you're not working in that space.
And so I would say any mid-tier film
down, um, to micro budget and lower is
like, you need to be prepared to be.
To get, have a marketing head.
And again, this comes with
the, the strategy all the way.
Going back to the idea like how,
you know, but bringing resources.
We, we had sponsorships
that were very gungho about
marketing it in their own way.
Phonak was a great partner for us.
They provided the first, um,
the, the hearing aids for the,
the characters, uh, for Lucas.
And so it was integrated
really well into the story.
But they also were really big on
markets, so they did their whole
campaign by the, so all these things,
like, you've gotta be creative and, and
really, um, you know, it together and
be ready to work with the distributor.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754:
Well, and you guys have done that.
And I mean, it is, just from summarizing
the conversation, no small, there
is no easy way to make a film.
There's no easy film.
You say, I wanna get together
with my friends and make a movie.
That in and of itself is gonna
bring a a pile of challenges.
And, uh, you guys have gone beyond that.
You've successfully made a movie.
It's, uh, you know, I'm
hearing about it from different
avenues and so congratulations.
It's, you're at a hundred
percent on Rotten Tomatoes.
Academy Award nominated
actor in your film.
It's available on Peacock.
mean, that, that, do
you ever take a second?
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: sounds.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754:
Do you ever, yeah.
Do you ever step back and go, Hey, these
little hills we're climbing, that's
great, but we, we've already summited.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: And I just wanna
say, even with Judd Hurst and Amy Smart,
like getting film critics to review is
not something like they, it didn't just
go out and people started reviewing and we
just sat and watched the reviews come in.
Uh, it was.
Us really pushing, getting it out there.
And film critics have, you
know, a lot of integrity.
Integrity, just like anyone else,
uh, that does their, their job.
And it's kind of like, you know,
like Judd Hirsch might get their
attention, but it'll be on the back
burner and they'll, you know, they'll
say like, if we can get to it, great.
We can't, whatever.
And just kind of, hey, let you
know that like, if I review
it, like basically we're gonna,
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754:
I'm gonna be honest.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: rip it up.
Um, and so those, you know, those are
the chances that you take, but it, it
took a lot of persistence, sending your
film out there, researching the, the
critics like, you know, knowing, you know.
Their background knowing like when you
approach them respecting their craft and
everything like that, it's, it's work.
It's not just like,
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: you know,
it's not, uh, it's not a Marvel
movie that you just put out there
and like all of a sudden the, you
know, the, you know, the critics
were essentially chasing that film.
They're not chasing your film.
And like, again, like
we had two big stars.
Not really on the radar
on any of the radars.
They only, a lot of times I was
getting like, no, no thanks, or kind
of politely like, Hey look, you know,
like in their own words they were
like, we don't really wanna like
rip the movie up, you know, like we
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: the
labor of love, so, you know,
good luck with it and everything.
I'm like, Hey, just watch
the trailer or whatever.
And they would watch a few
minutes and they're like.
Actually, I actually,
we'll, we'll review this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's, that's kind of what happened.
But again, the, the point is like that
in, in of itself was a lot of work, part
of the, and we're the filmmakers that
went and got that, that was not, know,
some PR firm or anything like that.
That was us just hustling.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
Uh, it's, it, it's never ending.
And congratulations on,
on keeping to do it.
It's, it's amazing what all so that, uh,
me and my son can watch a 90 minute movie
together about baseball, which we loved.
So, so, congratulations.
daren-smith_1_03-18-2025_110754:
it's a great movie.
We, I don't know if we
said that at the beginning.
It is a great movie.
You guys did an amazing job.
So what's.
What's next for you guys?
We've got a few minutes with you still.
What?
What?
Do you have a next thing?
Are you just still recovering
from this experience?
Like where are you at now?
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: So the whole
like, oh, you know, like, what, what,
what's the next golden goose we gotta find
to return on the miracle we gotta pull.
Um, yeah, like, I guess Kathy,
we, you could speak on it.
just simply say this is.
I would say I'm sort of in
this transition period because
this took a lot of resources.
And it's crazy to think like, um, Garrett,
like you're saying, like all, everything
that goes into making a movie and people
just sit down for 90 minutes and that's,
they're seeing the final product.
But like, and they might look at
rally caps and say, oh, this is like.
Obviously an independent film or
a small movie or whatever, but all
the things that had to come together
just to make it happen, were, were
mini, were mini, um, mini miracles.
And so this more than anything, like I,
we basically pulled all of our resources
that we had, our family had, like, it
just, you know, we threw everything,
you know, all the kitchen sink at it.
And so I think I'm just in this
transition where I'm seeing where it goes.
The industry, and this is something
that you guys probably know very well.
And, but your viewers should know,
like, we're in a very, very tough time.
And, and that's, you'll hear that in
like any era, but like really right now,
distribution is, I couldn't even tell
you, um, any sort of real path to success.
There is success to be had, but
do you start with a blueprint?
You can't because we're
living in an era that's like.
Uh, you look in, in, you know, in, in a
span of two or three months, you can get
an idea, make a movie, put it online,
and everyone and their mother across
the, the, the globe can watch it in
with one click, which is amazing, right?
It's accessibility is never been better.
But it's really about attention, right?
So like winning a big festival
can get you on the radar.
Got good marketing campaign.
Like I've se I've seen a few really great
marketing campaigns like through Instagram
where like I went and watched the movie.
I had never heard of it.
I'm like, oh, I gotta see it.
And then I watched it and like,
eh, and maybe it was not all that,
but like, man, what a marketing
campaign like that is genius.
And so.
Um, that's not to say like, you know,
uh, like the content and the quality
is not important, but there's all
these other things that go into it
to really garner that attention.
So, back to your question,
like I, I need to see it's
specifically with feature films.
What is the new paradigm distribution
and how it works because.
Our father's films and our grandfather's
films was, it was different.
You went and you made a movie and if you
made a movie like it would get bought
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: that this is
not to it was hard, probably harder to
get a film off the ground back then,
and you needed like, you know, a film
camera and a crew and stuff like it.
It was a different sort of challenge.
their distribution model is
completely different than ours now.
And so how can you successfully circulate,
uh, money and, you know, get assets
and momentum to make your next film?
Like, really haven't figured that out.
And so to raise all these to, to put
all these resources together that we
had to do is just, it's not sustainable.
Right.
It's not sustainable.
And so I'm seeing how this plays out
and, and then going from there, like,
and again, I'm just talking about
really feature films in the marketplace.
Like we're still involved as content
creators and all that telling stories,
but the medium of doing that, um, doing
that art form, that medium is going
to, might be different moving forward.
Like how we tell those stories.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: definitely
for me is as a producer and everything
that I have learned and, and for most,
like everything was confirming for
me in this, in this making this movie
about marketing For me, it's like, for
example, the the new way to raise money.
Honestly, from a sponsorship to
product placement would be my two.
Go first as an independent
filmmaking, yes.
There's a lot of things happening in that
world that is not knocking somebody's
and say, Hey, can you sponsor my movie?
No, it has a, it is a process, that
would be, as an independent, I feel
that that is something that I, moving
forward in any project that I would
do, uh, I would think about it first.
Number two, adding
marketing from the script.
Uh, and number three, I think
the way I do and the way I relate
with people, producers, we need
to understand this is business.
But at the same time, how you build
your, your team is extremely important
because the way you build your team
is this can be a horror movie or
this can be an amazing experience.
one of the things is producers.
We always are literally invisible
when everything is happening,
when everything is going well,
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: we are the
bad cops when everything is going wrong.
And for me it is like
building a good team.
Building from the script marketing.
I will continue thinking that way for
next projects definitely mental health.
Nobody talks about mental health
in producers and that is one of the
things that I encourage people to, like
literally, Hey, take care of yourself.
Because yes, we are the ones
that actually take, take care of
this movie, and it's a lot on us.
Nobody turns around and say,
how's the producer doing today?
No.
Or it's like, are you okay?
And we're like, ah.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: you know,
it's like, it's like I feel that
marketing, um, marketing and mental
health in producers and building
teams is the most important thing
for me moving forward in any project.
and joining who I work with.
Definitely, um, and definitely see
that there's, there's an opportunity.
I feel that I'm with Lee in a lot of
things that he says, but at the same
time, I have that marketing side where
it's like it is possible to do it.
Just you have to be creative
as a producer how to do it.
There's comes from.
People think that.
producers are not creative.
No.
We have to be creative on solving issues
and solving how can we make something
happen nobody sees it and we can see it.
So I think that right now we are
just reading projects and, and
trying to find a good match for us.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: is why
she's, I'm just gonna say this
is why she's my better half, like
significantly better half because like.
Two prongs of, of an answer
of the same question.
I did like a dramatic soliloquy
with no real solutions, and half
of the time she answered the
question and gave several solutions.
So I'm yourself and
Catherine as a partner.
That's what I would
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754:
Yeah, you guys are a good match.
It's fun.
It's, uh, you could see the,
definitely the director side and
the producer side coming out of
each of you, so that's so great.
You've been so, uh, so insightful and
generous with your time and your, your,
your knowledge and your experience.
And, uh, boy, I hope that those
that are listening and those that
continue to work to make movies can
really appreciate what you've done.
And I hope that you take a second
to step back and go, we did it,
like, yes, we're in the middle of
trying to get people to see it.
secondary.
I mean, making the movie and getting
it out there, you guys have done it.
It's so cool to see, and
congratulations on, on its
success at the various festivals.
It's been awesome.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: Thank you so.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: it a
few times yourself, Garrett?
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754:
Uh, yeah, that's what I was, I was
setting myself up for, you know, to, to.
No, it's, it's, it's fun to see.
It's, we're all doing this
together, so, uh, congratulations.
Okay.
And, and we wanna put, uh, we'll put
a link to the movie or, uh, to your
information in our show notes so that,
uh, you know, if you're listening and you
want to check out the movie, please do.
It's, it's well worth it.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah, no,
thank you so much for inviting us
for the opportunity to even market
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754:
Yeah, right.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: helping,
you know, it's like, this is
marketing, believe it or not.
Uh, but it's like, but also, uh,
we would, we would like to help.
I mean, uh, if I can.
help somebody to learn and be open because
is the, unfortunately there is not a.
Manual like it's d it's,
it's different for everybody.
But if I can help to somebody that
don't go with the struggles that I went
through, I'm more than happy to help.
daren-smith_1_03-18-2025_110754: Amazing.
Thank you both so much.
Great to chat with you.
Congrats on the movie.
Hopefully we'll uh, see you again
soon sometime, maybe in the future.
It'd be great to.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754:
episode for, for, uh, your next big deal.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: Let us know.
What are you doing tomorrow?
No, it is funny.
I was just thinking, I actually
had a character in one of my
scripts that never got produced,
but his name was Darren Garrett.
So,
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Oh
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: I just, yeah,
I just wanted to throw that out there
that maybe there was some sort of.
daren-smith_1_03-18-2025_110754:
It's a sign.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: yeah.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: like connection
here, but um, no, seriously, thank
you for having us for, would love
to do this anytime and really just.
You know, what you were saying
about it being an accomplishment,
me and Kathy definitely feel like
there was a dream come true here.
And dreams are not always picture perfect.
They're not always fairytales, they're
not always movies like what happens in
the movies where like everything is great.
It's like there was a lot of
suffering, a lot of growing.
Um, but we definitely at are at a place
where, you know, being able to kind of
climb the mountain back a small mountain.
it's, you know, it made us reflect
more and to look at what, what is
the greater purpose with all of this?
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754: Yeah.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: And so that
should drive you because at the end
of the day, it's really about reaching
people, reaching audiences, and changing
our, and changing people's lives.
This is what creatives do.
This is what our
contribution to the world is.
So don't stop.
daren-smith_1_03-18-2025_110754:
Well said.
garrett-batty_1_03-18-2025_110754:
I love it.
Alright, love it.
Thank you very much for being here.
kathy_1_03-18-2025_110754: No thank you.
I.
lee_1_03-18-2025_110754: you.
daren-smith_2_03-18-2025_121041:
Oh, those two are awesome, man.
It was so
garrett-batty_2_03-18-2025_121041: a,
daren-smith_2_03-18-2025_121041:
that they were sharing that.
garrett-batty_2_03-18-2025_121041:
what a conversation.
I mean, Lee and Catherine, thank
you for coming on the show.
They just shared one of the things
I love about this podcast when
people ask like, what is it about?
Or, you know, oh, another film, podcast.
When we get in these like modes to like
market a movie or talk about a movie,
you go on these radio programs or news
programs and you have about a five
minute section segment and they ask
you all the same questions and you say
good things about your movie and the
experience and the actors of, of course,
I mean that's the promoting the movie.
And then they, and then they go cut.
You know, great job.
Oh, thanks for coming on.
So tell us what really happened.
that stuff never gets out there.
And this podcast, I feel like.
Picks up where those
interviews leave off and cut.
And we just saw that with, with Lee and
Catherine, uh, who came and obviously
have a great love for their film and,
and shared great insights about it.
we get insights as to how hard it is and
every little challenge along the way.
And, uh, that's what we wanna
do for independent filmmakers.
We want to demystify that process.
Like, hard, it's challenging,
but it's fulfilling and worth it.
daren-smith_2_03-18-2025_121041:
You said it, man.
Like I love that we're not just
a, a place for people to vent,
but we're saying Yeah, it's hard.
Yes, sometimes it breaks you, but
it's worth it and here's why as well.
So you got that nice balance of
like, yeah, we made something
that will will be around forever.
Like their movie will be around forever.
Our movies will be around forever.
Forever.
So like how cool is that?
Like I'm thinking about my kids
telling their kids, telling their
kids about, this is a movie.
Great.
Grandpapa made like that.
That's something like, what else
could I do besides maybe writing
that, that has that sort of legacy,
that has that sort of longevity,
that has that sort of impact and
influence on the culture and on people.
Like it's so cool.
Anyway, enough about how awesome
we are and how great our podcast
is, but, but you're right.
Like I love these conversations.
Um.
garrett-batty_2_03-18-2025_121041:
like the conversation.
Yeah.
Regardless, pod this podcast
or somebody else's podcast.
It's nice to hear like real experiences
of people, what they're going through.
daren-smith_2_03-18-2025_121041:
Yeah, when it takes a long form
podcast to get into that, 'cause
you cannot do it in three to five
minute segments on TV or radio.
So
garrett-batty_2_03-18-2025_121041: Okay,
so Darren, what are we, uh, let's see,
what are we working on, uh, this week?
Uh, I'll start.
daren-smith_2_03-18-2025_121041: yeah.
garrett-batty_2_03-18-2025_121041:
How was that for a segue?
No, I'm excited this week.
We are so, faith of Angels
is on, uh, angel Studios.
Right now we're on week five,
we've crossed over 200,000 views.
On their platform, which is
amazing because they just crossed
over 1 million subscribers.
Um, so 20% their subscribers
have, have viewed faith of
angels, which is really fun.
They've invited us, uh, some of the casts
to show up and record a live stream.
daren-smith_2_03-18-2025_121041: Oh wow,
garrett-batty_2_03-18-2025_121041:
get, we'll see if we can get, put that
live stream on our channels as well.
daren-smith_2_03-18-2025_121041:
that'd be awesome.
garrett-batty_2_03-18-2025_121041: yeah.
daren-smith_2_03-18-2025_121041:
That's super cool.
I.
garrett-batty_2_03-18-2025_121041:
continuing to promote that
and pitch other projects.
Um, I had a meeting last night
with somebody about a series that,
uh, that I'm working on that have
been pitching for a while and,
uh, we're very excited about that.
They, the meeting went well,
and so, I mean, that's kind
of the day to day activities.
How about you?
daren-smith_2_03-18-2025_121041:
That's awesome, man.
I've been thinking a lot about the, let's
call it a flywheel for raising money and
a flywheel in very, in very short terms,
a flywheel is something that every step
of the process naturally leads to the
next one and ultimately circles back on
itself so that every time it rotates, it
gets easier and easier and picks up speed.
Meaning that it starts giving off more
of the outcome that you're looking for.
It's a very short overview of what a
flywheel is, and I've been a systems
thinker for as long as I can remember.
So the idea here is instead of
just doing scattershot activities
that may or may not lead to people.
Investing in my film fund,
let's build a flywheel.
And it's hard because initially it's
really hard to get a flywheel going.
Like it's kinda like a J curve.
It's like you're going in reverse almost.
You're going down below this
equilibrium of like success or whatever.
So it's like not success,
not success, not success.
And then it starts to uptick and
you're still below like where
you started, but at some point.
Exponentially starts growing
or at least picking up speed
and it gets easier and easier.
And so.
What I'm doing is really analyzing
over the last couple of weeks
what's going on with the flywheel.
Am I actually picking up speed
sp like spin after spin, or
am I doing scattershot stuff?
And I actually just in the analyzing
of all that was like, okay, I.
The activities I'm doing aren't
actually leading to the next thing,
the next thing, the next thing.
So I really had to kind of pivot
and go, okay, I'm gonna hone
in on who I'm actually reaching
out to and who I'm talking to.
I'm gonna get more focused on the aspect
of the flywheel that generates leads on
autopilot, so to speak, like using inbound
strategies like content and writing.
And so it's just in the last like week
and a half really, that it's like, oh.
My calendar next week is full
of five meetings with investors
that I've never talked to before.
That's interesting.
Right?
So it took three and a half months
of constant every single day, every
single week, every single month going.
I.
Is this picking up speed?
Is this getting easier?
Is it generating more of
the outcome that I want?
And yes, the outcome is not more meetings,
the outcome is more meetings with people
who will ultimately invest in the fund.
So I found that I was doing a lot
of work to get investors that either
didn't, weren't in a position to
write checks, or were kind of like
angel level checks 10 to $50,000.
And like if you're trying to raise.
$10 million from $10,000 checks,
that's gonna take a while.
That's a thousand checks.
Like no one has time for that.
So just, you know, it was almost
like I started pushing this flywheel,
this big behemoth of a thing.
I got one or two rotations in and
was like, oh, if that picks up
speed, it's still not gonna work.
Getting me the outcome that I'm after.
So I kind of had to stop
pushing on that one, build a
new one and start on that one.
And that's been the last like two weeks.
And so all that to say,
it's a lot of work.
It takes time.
But if you build flywheels instead of
just do scattershot activities, then
the things naturally lead to the next
thing, the next thing, the next thing.
And so every investor tells me about
a different investor I should talk to.
And every day that I post content, it's
another person that's finding about
what I'm up to and what I'm working on.
And so it's working slowly but
surely we're gonna get there.
And so, uh, that's what I'm working on.
That's a long answer, sorry.
garrett-batty_2_03-18-2025_121041:
It's fine.
That's a great answer.
And, and, uh, definitely you're, you're
in the middle of it, which is exciting.
And hopefully those results next
week, um, show you that it's working.
That's cool.
daren-smith_2_03-18-2025_121041:
Yeah, it's pretty fun.
garrett-batty_2_03-18-2025_121041:
Well, good.
Well, it's an, uh, we've, we've hit our
limit as far as, uh, length of episode.
I think we, I think this one's
a record, but it was worth it.
It was a great, great
discussion, great interview.
Thank you again to all the listeners
who continue to, and, and viewers on,
on YouTube channel, uh, who continue to
watch and share and like, and subscribe
and whatever else the kids say these days.
daren-smith_2_03-18-2025_121041: Yeah.
Well, and that's the, that's the
next flywheel that I'm thinking of
is like, what's the growth flywheel
look like for truly independent?
And I think the thing that makes it
go around faster is, if you liked
this episode, think of a friend.
Share it with them, send 'em a
text, send 'em a link, put it
on social media, whatever, and
say, I really like this episode.
I think you will too.
And that's gonna help this thing grow and
have more impact and reach more people.
So thanks for watching, like Garrett
said, but please share the show as well.
garrett-batty_2_03-18-2025_121041: Okay,
Darren, we'll talk with you next week.
daren-smith_2_03-18-2025_121041: Okay.
Thanks man.
See you then.
Thank you for listening to this
episode of Truly Independent.
To join us on the journey,
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