S2 EP20 | Independent Filmmaking: Balancing Indie Spirit with Studio Resources
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: if I
get up and push on these boulders,
eventually one of 'em is going to move.
or in your case, Darren start a
studio and get 'em all moving.
This is Truly Independent, a show that
demystifies the indie film journey by
documenting the process of releasing
independent films in theaters.
Each week, Garrett Batty and I,
Darren Smith, will update you
on our journey, bringing guests
to share their insights into the
process and answer your questions.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
Oh, Garrett.
Hello my friend.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205:
Hey, was that intro music?
Do we play intro music?
Uh, sounds great,
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: You
know, I always play intro music in my
head whenever I get on a show, it just
feels like it puts me in the right?
mood.
A lot of times it's just like a
little bit of, uh, of John Mayer, you
know, just some like guitar stuff.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: Obviously
I, I obviously our audience understands
editing and they probably know, they
know the intro music isn't even close
to, you know, we don't hear that while
we're recording, so that's, that's
funny that you played in your head.
I do the same thing.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: Yes.
Well, you were referencing something that
I should have picked up on and I didn't
until you said it, and so there we go.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: I always
think of like, okay, push play on
YouTube and now what are they here?
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: Uh,
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: Hello.
Hello.
Uh, thanks for being here.
How you doing, man?
Good to see you.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: Oh,
so good.
I, uh, I've, I, I decided
to go back to the gym.
Uh, I've been working out at home
since the pandemic, so five years
that I've been working out at home.
And, you know, I feel like I'm in decent
shape, but I go back to the gym yesterday.
Then I wake up tomorrow this morning to
go back again and I can't move my arms.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: Oh,
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: And
I'm just like, what am I supposed
to do if I can't bend my elbows?
It hurts so bad.
Um, so there's, there's
some life updates from my,
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: That's,
that's like our morning talk show that
the chipper hosts talking kind of about
like, things that don't really matter.
Yeah.
But that's good.
Good.
Uh, good work out.
Glad glad you're here and, uh,
hope you, hope you feel better.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: Yeah.
Thank you.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: Well, good.
Well, I've had a good week.
It's been a busy week.
Again, I, you know, we talked a
little bit offline about, hey,
what do we wanna talk about?
Or what are the updates?
And you just said same thing,
uh, which is so true, right?
I mean, for me it's the
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: Yeah.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205:
kind of pitching.
And I had this, uh, kind of metaphor
popped into my head the other day of.
We're just surrounded by
these giant boulders, right?
And we're just pushing on a boulder.
And then, uh, you know, when that gets
tiring, you turn around and there's
another one you're pushing on it.
And these are all different film projects,
obviously, in various stages, but they're
all in the very, very early stages.
And it's, it's sometimes
frustrating because I never
know, just like it never have.
Complete, um, faith in which
boulder to push on, like which one
is going to, give or to move or to
break or to really gain momentum.
And then so you kind of push on 'em all.
Push, push, push, push, push a little
bit and take a little bit and you're
developing three or four big things.
the, the challenge is once one does
take off, other boulders just sit there.
They just sit there and
almost become abandoned.
And so I've had to kind of warn
people that I'm working with on d
different projects, like, okay, yes,
we're meeting and we're writing the
pilot script, or we're meeting and
we're, we're developing a pitch deck
or whatever with different groups.
I have to say, I don't, I don't know
if this is gonna go or not, and if
it does, you know, or if another
one goes, sorry, like this guy,
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: Yeah.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: has
to get put on hold for a while.
How do you deal with that?
Is that, is that relatable at
all to you or anybody out there?
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
Uh, you build a studio and, and
you hire people and you, you have a
development department, and you have a
distribution department and a production
department and post-production.
Like that's why, that's why companies
exist, to be able to expand the
capacity of a single person.
So I.
That's whether or not that's something
that you desire as a business
owner, the, the owner and executive
producer of Three Coin Productions.
Like that's the answer though.
Like it's a simple answer.
Oh, you just hire people so they can
keep those, keep those things moving.
Um, because there's lots of, like you
said, there's all these little boulders
everywhere and if no one's pushing on
'em, then they stay stagnant and so, Yeah.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205:
Well, well, you, you, uh huh.
It's a good, it's a good
point and a good answer.
And once again, you, you solved it.
mean I have the resources to
be able to do that, but, uh,
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: Nope.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: but.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
It doesn't make it easy.
It's simple, but.
it doesn't make it easy.
I mean, everything that we
do, I think is fairly simple.
You know, the, how do you raise money?
You talk to a lot of investors.
You, and over time you hone your
pitch and you get better at talking
to people and reaching out to people,
and you put a system together that
makes it easier and repeatable.
At some point, the first investor
comes in and then the next
one's easier, and the next one's
easier, and the next one's easier.
If you are using that sort of a flywheel
system, um, it doesn't make it easy.
You know, you still have to rustle
with every day getting up and going.
I.
Why does anyone wanna talk to me about
this thing that I'm doing is, am I crazy?
Is this stupid?
What am I doing?
That person on LinkedIn said they hate me.
Like, you know, it, it's,
it's all a mental game.
The mental stuff is hard.
I heard a great quote this
morning that I'm so glad that I
have an opportunity to share it.
Um, this was my friend Carl Richards
quoting someone named Sidney Banks, and
I'm not familiar with Sidney, but they say
we live in the feeling of our thinking.
Ooh, that's really good.
And it basically is saying that
like, perception is reality.
Like whatever we think is what we feel.
And the only way that I've been able
to overcome those, sometimes daily,
um, little obstacles of you're not
good enough to be doing this, is to
realize that I'm doing it to myself.
That is just a thought.
It's not reality.
And I want to be in a better mindset
in order to be able to talk to people.
And so it takes.
The, the practice of like getting out of
your thoughts and moving your body around
and getting, like, feeling better about
yourself and going, okay, I'm enough.
I'm, I'm good.
I can do this.
And then you do it and you just
repeat ad nauseum until you're
done, until you have what you want.
So that's all I've learned over
the years of doing this stuff
is like you just keep doing it.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205:
Yeah, just keep doing it.
That's a good thought,
motivational thought.
Uh, just the realization to me is
that every morning, like a filmmaker,
an independent filmmaker has to
have a ridiculous amount of hope.
You wake up every morning hopeful,
and you have to, and there's no
room for cynicism or negativity or
anything, but hope today is going
to warrant and be worth my effort.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: Yeah.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: yeah.
And so, uh, sometimes
it's, it feels, yeah.
Anyway, just, just stay hopeful.
Okay.
Uh.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
That's actually a good transition
into one of our topics today.
I think.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: Yes.
Okay.
Go ahead, lead us into that.
I'm excited.
I'm very excited to talk
about this with you.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
Yeah, me too.
We were talking beforehand and realized
that, you know, we, we know somebody that
had a massive success over the weekend.
We're talking about Jared Hess
and the movie Minecraft, which.
Uh, side note, this is not the main topic,
but like the pundits got it way wrong.
They, they were thinking it was
gonna do half the numbers that it
did, it did massive numbers over the
weekend, over 300 million worldwide
in three days, which is bonkers.
And Jared Hess, as you may or
may not know, is the guy behind.
Napoleon Dynamite, right?
Tiny little movie out of Idaho and Utah
that we, you know, that was, believe
it or not, was the first movie that I
watched after coming home from a two
year service mission for my church.
Um, and I did not get it.
Everybody was like, we've
watched it a dozen times.
It's the funniest movie ever.
And I'm like, I don't, I
don't get the comedy I do now.
I didn't then.
Um, but my goodness, Jared Hess,
who's, uh, you know, a contemporary
of yours, I'll put it that way.
Went from Indie filmmaker to now having
the biggest movie of the year so far,
the biggest release of the year so far.
And it's like now this Saving the Box
office, from its existential doom.
So I,
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: box office.
Uh, bigger
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: I know.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: than Barbie.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: Yeah.
Crazy.
So we wanna talk about that, that idea of.
Is it a good or bad thing to go from an
indie filmmaker to a studio filmmaker?
Are, are there upsides and downsides?
Are there trade-offs?
What are those trade-offs?
Because a lot of people are talking about
this right now, and I see kind of the,
the majority are leaning on the side of
like really disliking that the studio
system or Hollywood is taking all of our
indie auteur filmmakers and putting 'em
into the studio system, and that's bad.
I just, I don't know if I agree with that.
So I'm curious your thoughts and
then I'll kind of go with what,
whatever I come up with after that.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: Well, yeah.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
know how this podcast works, right?
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: Yeah.
This is a very casual conversation.
Uh, yeah.
Um.
And we'd love to get you guys'
comments and takes on it.
So those that are listening
and commenting, uh, yeah.
Talk to us about what are some of your
favorite indie directors that have crossed
border mainstream, and, uh, and what
are the, what are the risks of that?
and y you, you, you acknowledge that Jared
Hess is one of my contemporaries and, you
know, I'm gonna sit here and name drop.
Uh, but, uh, but yes, Jared
and I were in school together.
And, uh, working on, uh, similar
projects and some of the same projects.
And in fact, the two writers of, uh,
two credited writers on Minecraft,
uh, were some of my writing.
Uh, you know, I had the opportunity
to sit with them and learn from
them and work on projects with them.
Uh.
In the same, uh, film
school, film program.
uh, so congratulations.
I couldn't, could not be more happy,
uh, for their success over the weekend.
Um, you asked about what,
what's my take on that?
I, I love that.
I think that I.
Um, you know, ultimately
it's storytelling, right?
It is.
The studios want to find creative
voices that can tell creative stories,
and I think in the, in the right
collaboration, in the right alignment
of that experiment, a studio comes in
and, and, and invites an independent,
you know, an indie film or, or a, or.
expert storyteller to, uh, give a pitch
or a proposal on some recognized ip.
And I think as, as long as they allow
that creative voice to, to kind of ring
through from beginning to end, I think
you're gonna see some great results.
And, and that's been proven before with I.
Certainly with Minecraft, uh, you
could see the DNA that Jared has DNA
in the movie rung, rung through, uh,
you know, Christopher Nolan doing
Dark Knight and, uh, Gerwig doing
Barbie and Ryan Kler doing, um,
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
black Panther.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: So these are.
excellent experiments and successful
experiments of filmmakers getting
a big budget from a big studio
and just doing what they do.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
I would add like Peter Jackson and
Lord of the Rings and um, Tika White
Teet with the Thor movies and the
other movies he's been involved in.
Like, I went years ago, I think it
was 2016 or somewhere around there
where I went to Sundance when he had
Hunt for the Wilder people there.
I
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: yeah.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
like, this is, this is amazing.
This is such a good movie.
It was like a $5 million budget movie
made in New Zealand, and then he
is off making the next Thor movie.
I was like, that's, that's quite a jump.
That's amazing.
And then you watch Thor and
you're like, man, that really
was served well by that decision.
And so I, I think it's too.
We talked about maybe being
lazy a little bit last week.
I think it's too lazy to say that studio
is bad and cold and lacks depth and
lacks artistry, and the people that
are running studios are not artistic.
They're only money driven,
et cetera, et cetera.
I think it's just lazy and
you look at things like.
The decision to hire Greta Gerwig
to do Barbie, which was in my mind,
a perfect person for, you know,
co-writing and directing that movie.
Um, I give that to Margot Robbie less,
less than I give it to, uh, or more
than I give it to Warner Brothers or
whoever I think they distribute, Right.
But.
The, the idea that one, it's black
and white, as soon as you cross a
line, you are no longer, you no longer
have the ability or the autonomy
to be creative or to have a voice.
No.
I think a lot of times history has
proven that studios can make really
good decisions by bringing people.
So to speak from the indie
world into the studio system and
can have great success there.
There's probably plenty of
counter arguments as well, but
I'm not interested in those.
I just wanna celebrate the
fact that like this dude, this
team made an awesome movie.
I took my boys to see it, they loved it.
It was a full theater cheering and people
hooting and hollering And quoting stuff.
And my son, who really is into Minecraft
is every five minutes going, this
is a thing, and blah, blah, blah.
That's not really in the movie,
but you know, I, just loved.
I loved it and so they nailed it
in my mind and, and the box office
supports that, um, statement.
So,
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: And
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: yeah.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: think that,
yeah, on the, on the, on the flip side
of that, um, to the studio like, uh, for.
I, I guess, giving indie filmmaker
the resources needed and the
studio has access to the market.
I don't wanna say, boy, if the studios
would only just tell, do everything that
any filmmakers want us to do that or
want them to do, boy, we'd all succeed.
That's not the case at all.
I mean, I think that there's a great
balance of collaboration between
the saying, look, we have this
ip, we have access to an audience,
uh, that is hungry for stories.
Um.
And you're a storyteller, let
us support you in this story.
But it's gotta align with our audience
and, and you know, these access points,
and I think you gotta kind of thread
the needle there, there are examples
of it working very successfully.
And then there are examples of perhaps
when that balance is off and you
can tell and you, you know, you read
about those, it's no secret that.
Uh, Colin Trevor and his Jurassic
World Project was, uh, not, uh, a,
a balanced collaboration or, you
know, you talk about the, like Phil
Lord and, uh, who's Phil and Chris
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
Chris Miller.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205:
the, the solo project,
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: Mm-hmm.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: just not
being, not being a balance, whether it's
them or the studio that's, you know,
each side is gonna say whatever it is,
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: Yeah.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: Yeah,
and maybe we don't need to get into
that, but the, the benefit of that
balanced collaboration is the result
of something like a Minecraft or
a Barbie or something like that.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: Yeah,
I'm still sad that I never got to watch
Edgar Wright's Antman movie 'cause
apparently it was the best script that
many people in in Hollywood had ever.
Red and we don't get it.
Like we will never see it, which is sad
'cause Edgar writes one of my favorites.
But yeah, I, I, I like it a lot and
we have to be a little bit more.
Um, judicious with the way that.
we talk about this stuff online.
I think I'm getting prescriptive
and I know you don't like when
I get prescriptive, so let me
change the way that I do that.
But to say like, it really saddens
me when there's this black and white
absolutist opinions that are thrown
about online because we should
be celebrating when it works and.
Also realize when it doesn't work.
You know, we had movies recently
that lost hundreds of millions
of dollars from the studios.
Well, guess what?
On the other side of that, they still
made a hundred million dollars, which
Indie filmmakers don't know how to do.
Like that's not something
that we can do consistently.
So there is something to be said
for, even though it lost money.
That's more of, uh, there's more
that goes into that than just
who wrote or who directed it.
And the fact that a filmmaker who
came from the indie side was able to
have exposure to millions and millions
of people to go see a movie, that's
not something that's available to
them outside of the studio system.
So I still think there's things to be
celebrated, even, even when the pundits in
the Hollywood ecosystem is, you know, just
lamenting how bad it did a movie, did I.
I don't know.
I think we should stop that.
I think we should stop talking about,
oh man, that movie lost so much money.
It's a bad movie that isn't.
That's, those two things are
not necessarily correlated.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205:
Yeah, I agree.
There's there.
That equation shouldn't
have an equal sign on it.
This lost money, therefore it's
a bad movie and I don't know if
that's the point you're making.
Uh.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: It
is, Yeah, It's part of it for sure.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: yeah, yeah.
Plenty of, plenty of, uh, great movies
don't do well at the box office.
Uh, yeah, I think that there's always,
I have a lot of empathy for that.
Um, during, uh, during Covid I was hired
to by a, I was hired by a, you know,
for independent terms, a studio, um, to.
To, direct a film.
And we went over, and this is the
biggest movie that I've ever done.
It's a dollar budget movie.
It was a story that I pitched to them
years ago, and I wanna be careful
because certainly the movie might
still come out and, and hope, you
know, I certainly hope it does.
Uh, but it was a taste of what I
thought was this an imbalance between.
The studio and the director and then
say, you've hired me to make this movie.
We went over and we shot this movie,
spent millions of dollars to make the
movie, um, the studio then, yeah, there
were differences, certainly differences.
And now whenever I read, um, you know,
so and so left a project because of
creative differences, I have so much
empathy and I think, oh, I get that.
I understand that.
And boy, I, I would love for that
to always work out and for the
studio to what their role is.
And it's to take, you know, to
take the product to their audience,
but not necessarily to, speak for
the, for the creative process.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: Yeah.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: for me
to understand the role of saying,
Hey, here's, this is the studio.
You've, I've, I've never had
access to this amount of money.
Or resources and I know how to and,
and now let me use those to tell
the story that you hired me to do.
When it doesn't work out, it can
be heartbreaking for both sides.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: Yeah.
I, I had this thought of what if we
treated it more like sports do, right?
I, I, I was up late last night.
Catching up on all the Premier
League soccer games that I missed
over spring break and was just
thinking of like that as a corollary.
We would celebrate if a team or if an
individual moved up a league, right?
If a, if a baseball player you
loved went from the minors to the
majors, that's not a bad thing.
You wouldn't be worried that their
style of play is gonna be hampered
by the system that they are now in.
You'd celebrate it going, wow.
They finally get recognized for all the
hard work and effort that they've put
in, and I kind of wish we would do that.
We could celebrate the fact that so and
so got a movie at a studio and now we
get to have a movie with their voice.
And yes, sometimes it doesn't work out.
Sometimes it doesn't happen.
And maybe that's something for the
studios to look at the same analogy and
go, oh, if we bring up someone from the
minors, so to speak, to use that language
from the minor league to the majors.
Well, the worst thing you can do is
to make them, like, force them into a
system that isn't, you know, adjusted
for their style of play to say, oh,
now that you're here, you're gonna play
like this when we brought you up because
you're so good because you do this,
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: Yes.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
don't do that.
Right?
So that's maybe something, a
lesson that the studios could
take away from this analogy.
But I do think it's apt.
I think it works in the sense of.
We like movies, so let's celebrate
movies and let's celebrate when
people, I I, I guess what I'm saying
is I don't see it as a bad thing.
I think when they have an opportunity,
when indie filmmakers get an
opportunity to go tell a story with a
bigger budget, bigger resources, and
reach a bigger audience, I think all
around that's a pretty awesome thing.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205:
I always liken it to this,
you know, you've got, uh.
Independent filmmaker or an independent
film like that is one of the most
competitive, like one of the most
difficult places to succeed, both
business and creative and like,
and unfortunately, maybe this is
a tangent within this tangent.
independent, the best
filmmakers are the best.
Independent filmmakers are not
always the people that get to make
independent films, which is unfortunate
just because even on an outside of
the studios, on a very independent.
Uh, level, the filmmaker has to have
the skills of raising money, putting
together the project, bringing in
the right cast, and all of this
that's maybe unrelated to directing.
and so those that are just excellent and
these all tour directors may not ever get
the opportunity to really showcase that
because of the lack of resources there.
That's, that's a little bit of a tangent.
My, but the original point I was trying
to make before my, uh, veered was that,
um, independent filmmakers, when we do
get that opportunity, we to recognize
that it is this opportunity to um, do
what we do, do what we've done, that has
gotten us noticed on an independent film.
And, and to duplicate that now on a
scale level to not be at that point, um.
Fearful or hesitant or, uh, dependent
on other people's creative visions.
Like we we're hired as a director
because of our unique ability to put a
creative fingerprint on this particular
script or product or IP or whatever.
It's, we need to do that confidently
knowing that we're the best, if the
studio would allow us to do that,
and if the independent filmmakers
step up and say, that's what you
hired me to do, I'm gonna do that.
I think that's when we
get a winning combination.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: I like
that confidence going into that and, and
with that relationship and understanding
the thing that they hired you for is
the thing that they hired you for.
So,
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: Right, right.
It's like you make an incredible, you
know how to cook this incredible meal.
Come on, do it for us and we're
gonna tell you how to do it.
That's not a good situation.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: no.
There's definitely a, a two side situation
here that's, this is awesome, and I,
I want to make sure that we touch on
another topic that's also very timely.
Um, and because I think it relates,
and so recently, just in the last week
as we're recording this, um, there's a
lot of buzz around a comment or a, an
interview that Ted Sarandos, one of the
co-CEOs of Netflix gave where he, he
really was comparing YouTube and Netflix.
He has had this kind of real zero
sum, either or with us or against us.
Subtext to all of his comments,
he said that Netflix is in the
spending time business while YouTube
is in the killing time business.
And that creators, Uh, Netflix is
better for creators than YouTube.
So I think it's worth some commentary
from us as indie filmmakers who are
sitting here going, well, in, in one
way, it'd be great to work with Netflix,
but it's a closed ecosystem that, that
you can't just like show up and be like,
here's my movie, put it on Netflix.
It doesn't work that way.
And so YouTube is way more
open and accessible to any
filmmaker anywhere in the world.
They can upload a video today and
start monetizing it or charging for it.
Um, but the idea that I'm interested in
kind of getting your thoughts on is this
idea of why is it so important for, you
know, these CEOs to treat the industry?
Like it's a zero sum game, like there's
a fixed size pie, and if YouTube
takes more of it, that means there's
net less for Netflix and vice versa.
Do you agree with, you know, how
he's approaching this and how
he's looking at the industry,
or do you see it differently?
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205:
Uh, that's a good question.
And, uh, probably one I I would need
to process for a little bit to kind
of understand, it sounds like you,
you, you were made aware of these
comments, uh, earlier in the week.
Uh,
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: today.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: and I'm
just hearing that, uh, I gotta, I gotta,
I gotta step outta Minecraft a little
bit and, and, uh, pay attention to this.
Uh, no.
No, I think, I think based on what
you've just said and kind of what that
comment is, I started to kind of think
and question that, okay, do I make an
emotional connection to YouTube shorts?
You know, and aside from a, from a
laugh, you know, I might share it
with my, my, my son or something.
There's not a, uh, necessarily
an emotional, like a moving,
uh, behavior changing.
Type connection.
So I could see where that comment
is coming, whereas a Netflix
series might actually ins inspire
or initiate some sort of change.
Uh, so that, being said, I mean, I've
watched plenty of movies on YouTube, so as
a delivery mechanism, it's, it's A or B,
it doesn't, you know, it doesn't matter.
Um, but maybe as a platform
for developing stories.
It like they've got different goals.
I mean, to what I understand YouTube is,
doesn't have a development department,
that they're, they're purchasing, you
know, hiring to, to create content.
So it seems like a different,
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: Yeah.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205:
seems like a weird comparison.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: I agree.
There's two different things.
YouTube did have a program for a
few years where they were investing
into projects into, you know,
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: right.
The YouTube red, I guess
they came up with, uh,
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
but that's been, uh.
It's been discontinued for some reason.
I'm not sure why.
Um, but yeah, my, my thoughts on
this is it's hurtful to the business.
Like why can't, again, it goes
back to what we were talking about.
Why can't we just celebrate
all forms of storytelling?
Why does it have to be that Netflix
style is good and YouTube style is bad?
Um.
I think that the fact that YouTube
has democratized distribution
for people is a good thing.
It means we get more stories from more
creators, and I can think of plenty.
I mean half a dozen come to mind right
now of long form YouTube interviews or
videos that I've watched and this year.
That have dramatically impacted the way
I think, or the way I operate, or the
way I'm approaching my business because
I'm, I get access to people on, you know,
in different parts of the world that
I wouldn't have access to otherwise.
And they're, the, that content
would never be on Netflix, at least
in their current model and the way
that they're doing the programming.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: Right.
Yes.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: I
can also look at Netflix and go, man,
there's half a dozen movies that I've
watched on Netflix that I'm, wish
I could have those two hours back.
You know?
'cause they just didn't deliver.
So I just don't think, again, it's
not, it's this absolutist thinking
of this is good and this is bad, hard
line, you know, no questions asked.
And then this idea of
there's, there's a fixed pie.
I think it's important for filmmakers to
kind of wrap their head around this idea.
I.
Which is the, when you go out and create
something, you're expanding the pie.
That's, that's something
that did not exist.
By definition, right?
You come up with an idea for a movie,
you, you film it, you distribute
it, you put it out in the world.
That is monetary value.
That didn't exist like
before that movie existed.
Nobody could give you $20 to rent
it or $10 to go see in theaters.
So you're creating new monetary
value, but you're also creating new.
Story value, new entertainment, value,
whatever you want to call it, where if
you didn't do it, it wouldn't exist.
And so there is no fixed pie, there's no
limit to how many stories can be told.
And if someone, if you go tell that
story, that means I don't get to tell mine
that's not real, but that's kind of how
he's framing the conversation, that like,
if you choose YouTube, you, you're bad.
And if you choose Netflix,
good, uh, it's just so lazy and
it's so, I think wrong again.
So I want filmmakers to understand
that we're not competing with
each other like we should be, in
my mind, supporting each other.
And in my experience, it's way more fun to
support each other and to help each other
and to collaborate and to help and do
whatever we can to support each other than
to be upset that, oh, so and so got their
movie made and funded and distributed.
And so that makes me mad.
I, it's fortunate.
And so I think these two.
Topics that we're talking about
are related for that reason
alone, if not other reasons.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: Yeah, it's,
it, um, maybe this metaphor applies or
it doesn't, but, uh, one of the, of the
vision that I often go back to when I'm
getting ready to distribute a movie,
distribute a a, an independent film, is
like this, this, uh, this realization,
a very, very humbling realization that.
first of all, film, know, by,
it's just nature is more like
dessert than meat, right?
It's not a necessity and don't,
don't cancel me right now.
But, uh, you know, it's,
it's certainly a luxury.
We're very, very grateful for it,
especially in times of, you know, uh,
I, I'm reminded of like times of Covid
where we're all kind of trapped inside.
And guess what?
Netflix and every, and cable
and everything subscriptions
shot through the roof.
Uh, 'cause everyone was like,
Hey, take our minds off of.
For a second.
Uh, but, but really are creating dessert.
We're creating dessert that some
people want and there should
be a whole variety of that.
So if I go into the,
the, the donut aisle, I.
There's a variety of different donuts.
I shouldn't care if donuts
exist down there that I don't
like, like a particular kind.
Great, good for them that they're,
that they're on the shelf and great.
You know what, when I turn
around, there's all the vegetables
and I don't see any donuts.
That's really what some people want.
So it's like already, you know,
I'm, I'm kind of losing the
metaphor, but the point is.
What we're creating as storytellers and
filmmakers, whether it's independent
films or giant, huge blockbusters are
just different varieties of dessert.
And some are gonna have certain tastes
and they'll, they'll attract a certain
audience and, uh, and others won't.
And that's okay.
There's, there's no, it, it, just because
one exists doesn't mean that mine can't,
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
Yeah, and life is so much
better because donuts exist.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: because what
I was going forward there and thank you.
He summed it up perfectly.
Um,
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: life
be boring if it weren't for donuts?
But, yeah.
Well said.
I think it actually is a really
good analogy of what we're trying
to talk about here because yeah, we,
we sometimes get really important.
We, we start feeling like it's really,
really important and essential and we
can take it really seriously when, when
it doesn't work out the way we want to.
And I think that's a good perspective too.
Put on top of all this stuff of
like, okay, well, does it matter
what Ted Sarandos said last week?
No, it won't matter tomorrow.
It won't matter a year from now.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: Twinkies.
He's just trying to sell Twinkies.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: And I
think that's, uh, if we kept, if we keep
going on this topic, it's like, yeah, we
gotta look at the incentives of the guy
that's saying the things He's saying.
Like, yeah, of course the guy who runs
Netflix is gonna poo poo on YouTube,
which is stealing attention from Netflix
and streaming, and he's gonna poo poo
on the movie theaters because that's,
uh, that's a competitor to his business.
So I get it.
Um, I think we all get it, but I think
it's fun, you know, not that we do, uh.
You know, news stories each week.
We rarely do this kind of thing,
but I think it just highlighted two,
two, uh, perspectives on life in
the industry that were important to
kind of talk about and work through.
So that was fun.
Thanks for, thanks for letting me do that.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: That was fun.
I'm gonna throw one curve ball to you,
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: Oh boy.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205:
One additional topic.
Again, it's not news, this is
not a news show 'cause we'll be
posting this three weeks after.
But, uh, this week was CinemaCon and,
uh, you know, we're going back to
the whole big blockbuster experience.
I wanna read a post from one of our
good friends, Brandon Purdy, who has
spent, he's the, uh, head of theatrical
distribution for Angel Studios.
He's down at CinemaCon, and if
you'll let, if you'll indulge me for
a second, Brandon's a dear friend.
He distributed my first movie
and it was his first movie that
Purdy distribution distributed.
The, the, the Brandon said,
yes, we wanna do this.
Uh, let's figure out how to
crack the theatrical, you
know, code and get in there.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: Yeah.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: over
20 years ago, this is Brandon Purdy.
When I first started attending
CinemaCon, then called Show
West, I made myself a promise.
I wrote down a goal that one day
I would be distributing films wide
enough, significant enough, and often
enough to stand on those stages.
He goes and he lists, uh, different
people that he admired there, and
he says, for the next two decades, I
return to CinemaCon every year with
that same fire, only grew stronger,
and then through preparation,
experience, and a little divine timing.
Which is kind of the perfect
description of how any movie gets made.
In my opinion, my path aligned
with Angel Studios in Symphony.
The opportunity paired, uh, appeared
and the dream became re real.
His, his post is lengthy.
His final paragraph says, uh, this past
week at CinemaCon, at 45 years old, I
felt that same magic, that same hope.
Um, that same beauty of being transported
just for a moment away from the
complexity and noise of the world.
I'll fight for the big screen
and the shared movie going
experience until the day I die.
I skipped over the part where Brandon
talks about he presented on stage.
I mean, he's
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: Yeah.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: he's
announcing angels slate on stage, and
I just love that I, I mean, I commented
him, I said, this is a, the definition
of making your dreams come true.
It's that determination of whether you're
an independent filmmaker or somebody
who's passionate about distribution
or whatever, it's like it's doable.
It's doable.
It's that naive hope that
you have to wake up with.
And I gotta find a better term.
'cause it's not naive, it's.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
It's faith.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: There you go.
Yeah, that's a good term.
It is.
It's that faith that if I get up and
push on these boulders, eventually
one of 'em is going to move.
Uh, you know, or in your case, Darren
start a studio and get 'em all moving.
on these boulders, eventually
one of 'em is going to move.
Uh, you know, or in your case, Darren
start a studio and get 'em all moving.
Um, but through that we can, you know,
we can, we can our, make, make the
movies we've been wanting to make.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: Yeah.
I, I saw him post that on LinkedIn
as well, and I was just like, man,
I can't celebrate this enough.
It's, it's exactly the same
experience just from a distributor
rather than a filmmaker.
I mean, we're all filmmakers, right?
But he's coming at it from a different
part of the industry and has the same
experience that we've been through, you
know, the struggle of the early years
and having this big dream that we're
pursuing for so long, and not knowing
how it's gonna work out, but having
that faith that we just keep going.
It will, I mean, I've said this multiple
times on multiple, uh, podcasts.
Like it took me 12 years
to produce my first movie.
That's a long time, but I attribute
80% of my success to the fact
that I just stuck it out and
kept going rather than giving up.
Um, it's not that I'm special or extra
good, it's just I, I didn't go away, so,
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205:
Well it turn, yeah.
It turns into a starvation game,
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: yeah.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205:
can starve for the longest?
Uh, that, yeah.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: That's
really cool that you shared that.
And Yeah, it's congrats to Brandon.
He's a friend and I need to go to lunch.
We need to go to lunch with him.
I love that dude.
Um, congrats to them.
And Angel Slate.
You know, they had a, a big week
at CinemaCon, so very cool to see.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: Yeah,
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: it.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: was great
and it sounds like it turned out, and
there was just this energy for all,
all studios who were really just really
committed to the theatrical experience,
which is great for independent filmmakers.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
Yeah, so, so cool.
I'm glad you threw that curve ball.
I.
don't have much more
to say than like, yay.
Go Brandon.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it, I, yeah, it just comes full
circle on like, hey, from independent
to big screen, whether you're on
the filmmaking side of it or the
distribution side of it, whatever it is.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: I.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: Good, good.
Celebrate.
Let's celebrate, uh, any, any successes.
Uh, one, a little celebration,
a little shout out.
Uh.
I didn't realize this, but the carpenter,
Darren, a movie you and I produced and
I wrote and directed is, was released
last weekend on, on a streaming platform.
Uh, which is, which is
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: What,
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: on that.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
this is how I hear.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205:
I was at a, uh, where was I?
I was at a meeting, kind of a, a
meeting where I was pitching an idea
pitching a story to a group of, um.
It was a group of, uh,
people from that area.
It was a story set in Germany and there
were a, a group of people that served
missions in, in, uh, Germany, at any rate.
And somebody said, Hey, did you
know that the, the carpenter is
on, uh, this streaming platform?
Uh, it opens tonight.
I, and I didn't deny it 'cause, you know,
they seemed like they had conviction in,
but I hadn't heard one thing about it.
uh, so I said, oh, that's great.
I, I thought maybe they
were totally mistaken.
I had no idea what they're talking about.
I was like, oh yeah, that's, that's nice.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: Oh man.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: then I come
home tonight that night and look it up.
And there it is.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
Well what's the platform?
We gotta tell everybody
where it's streaming.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205:
it's called living Scriptures
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: Oh, nice.
They made a deal with
living scriptures also.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: subscribe,
uh, to living scriptures, I think for
nine bucks a month or something like that
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
There you go.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: the
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
You can try it free.
Yeah,
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205:
of my other movies,
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
there you go.
I just loaded it.
and Faith of Angels is right there in
the the homepage banner, which is fun.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: yeah,
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
Well, cool.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205:
You see Carpenter on there?
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
I'm looking not yet.
Maybe they haven't updated it yet.
When was this?
The year,
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205:
Oh, it's on there.
Uh, but at any rate, and they,
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: so cool.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205:
are distributing the, uh,
not the director's cut.
So it's the, uh, more of the,
um, the studio cut, I guess we'd
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
Theatrical cut.
Yeah.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: Yeah.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
Well, awesome.
That's, that makes me happy
that people can watch it.
'cause I get asked every week,
where can I watch Carpenter?
I'm like, I continue a screener.
I don't know other than that, like,
uh, you could, you could call the
guys that own it and ask for a
copy, but that's really exciting.
That makes me happy that
they, they did a deal there.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: Okay.
Other things that are progressing,
we're making good progress with
Faith of Angels on, uh, on BitMax.
I had a great conversation with them.
In fact, we probably need to have
a representation representative
of BitMax on the show 'cause
their model is pretty slick.
And it seemed like an, uh, a, a great,
um, solution for any filmmakers that want
to do indie distribution on their own.
Um, so that's moving along.
We're looking at a
release date on May 6th.
Uh, the DVD and the Blu-ray are
being authored and getting ready for
replication, which is great because
we've already got some orders.
This is something again, we posted
on our website and on Amazon.
I had to take it down on Amazon
because people were ordering it,
I was worried that it would get
like negative reviews because it.
Um, 'cause I need to ship them.
But on our website, when people order
it, I know that that's a destination
site that they've come looking for it.
So I just shoot them a quick email
saying, Hey, you've, found out our secret,
uh, you know, this release is May 6th.
We're hoping to get early copies out.
Uh, thank you for your order.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: Yeah.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: have been
very positive and very responsive to that.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
That's awesome.
It the, there was an update
that I wanted to share as well
because you and I both have like.
Products that we're
putting into the world.
You have the DVD and and people are just
buying them and you haven't told anybody
except on this podcast that it exists yet.
And I similarly, I've, you know,
I released a book last month
and people are gonna hear that.
and go, wait, what?
He wrote a book?
Well, Yeah, because I did not launch it.
I didn't do like a big month
long promotion marketing thing.
I was just like, what if I just.
Had it out and it, it existed.
And if people were in the course
of navigating my website, saw that
it's available, liked it enough
to wanna buy it, that's great.
Well, I sell one or two copies a week.
Like, Well, more than that it's
probably four or five copies a week.
I was gonna say a day,
but that was accurate.
But a couple, you know, let's
call it three or four a week,
let's say that that's the number.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205:
seen people plugging it.
I've seen
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: Yeah.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: that are
plugging it, that have purchased it and,
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: It's
crazy, you know, people are, they're
not necessarily searching it out, but
the people that are, you know, following
along and are, are just getting in the
stream of what I'm putting out there.
It naturally guides them over
to, Hey, there's a book that if
you're into this kind of thing,
it'll help you get those outcomes.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: Where
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: I
sell help, just, I'm self-distributing.
So the same thing,
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: So they
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: um.
On my own site.
Yeah.
So if you go to Craftsman
Films, there's a link there.
If you go to craftsman creative.co,
there's a link there.
Um, it's, I sell it through Shopify
and then the books are printed
on demand by the company Lulu.
Uh, they're a print on demand company
that I've, uh, I met and actually
sponsored the writing of the book.
So I actually got paid a five
figure sum to write and talk about
the book as I was writing it.
And so it's kind of contractually
obligated, but I'm happy to do it also
that I mention Lulu every time I talk
about the book, but I mean, as a, as
someone who is really trying to crack.
Independent self-distribution
for movies, it really helps that.
I'm also trying to crack it with the books
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: Yeah.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
it's working.
You know, it's really small scale.
I haven't sold a million
copies, but I don't need to.
Right.
And the reason that I think it's so
smart that you're selling it through
your website is that you get the
email address of all the buyers.
If you sell it on Amazon, you get
the email address of all the buyers.
If I sell a book, I get
their email address, and that
relationship is so important.
That I'm willing to trade some
sort of publishing deal or.
some sort of distribution through
bookstores or Amazon or whatever.
You can't buy my new book on Amazon
because I don't want random people
who I don't know buying my book.
I want them, I wanna know them.
I wanna know who they are.
So we're getting on another
soapbox, which I'm happy to get
on anytime, but just the idea of.
Owning your distribution channels,
you become a little mini studio.
Right.
I'm a little mini, mini publishing house.
My book was published by
DS Media, which is me.
Right.
Your, your book is, your movie
is now being distributed by
three Coin Productions because
you're distributing it.
You're doing the work of distribution.
I think it's smart.
It's awesome.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: well
it might be a way to, way to keep
going, keep making titles right?
Because of, what do you say?
Like, uh, something equals permission.
Profits equals permission.
now we're not at profits point.
Uh, 'cause every dime that comes in
goes back to the investors to pay off
p and a and, and then negative cost.
If we build a list of, you know,
10,000 people that have purchased A
DVD, what's the likelihood of them
paying attention to our next one?
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: Yeah,
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: it.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: exactly.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: that's the
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
And you don't, you don't need.
250 million subscribers to be profitable
as an independent artist, filmmaker,
studio, whatever you want it to be
author, you need a couple thousand.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: Yeah.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
like, that's it.
And So I think that's the mindset
we gotta take into the work.
We're gonna go, you know, after
this call and in the weeks ahead
of like, that's, that's the goal,
is to get profitably independent and be
able to greenlight our own stuff because.
Then you can do whatever you want.
You don't need a studio to call you up in
order to make the movie you wanna make.
How's that for wrapping it up with a bow?
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205:
Oh yeah, you came full circle.
But if they do wanna call, uh, my
number will be in the show notes.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
There you go.
I'm available.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205: Just
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205: Awesome.
Nice.
garrett_1_04-08-2025_141205:
Hey, great to see you.
Great checking in.
good luck this week.
Wake up hopeful.
daren-smith_2_04-08-2025_141205:
I love it.
Thanks man, and thanks to the audience.
We, we love hearing the messages that
you guys are listening, that you're
getting value from the podcast.
You can do us a favor, go leave a review
and tell one person about this show.
Then if everybody did that, it would
double the number of listeners we have.
Which would be very impactful.
So go ahead and do that.
Send us a message.
Let us know you're listening,
and thanks for being here.
If you have questions, shoot 'em over.
Go to three coin pro.com/podcast.
You can put questions there and
they go directly to Garrett and
we can answer them on the show.
Thanks for listening
Thank you for listening to this
episode of Truly Independent.
To join us on the journey,
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Our intro and outro music is
election time by Kjartan Abel.
