S2 EP21 | From Dreams to Reality: Cameron Sawyer's Fable Haven Journey

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311:
what a treat to be able to hear the

story that he's been through the last
couple years because that is quite

the journey for this one project

This is Truly Independent, a show that
demystifies the indie film journey by

documenting the process of releasing
independent films in theaters.

Each week, Garrett Batty and I,
Darren Smith, will update you

on our journey, bringing guests
to share their insights into the

process and answer your questions.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Uh, welcome to another

week of Truly Independent.

We are, what is this episode?

A million.

it, it's good to be here.

I'm Garrett Batty, and with me as
always, my co-host Darren Smith.

Darren, how are you?

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714:
I'm so good.

I think we just freaked the audience
out though, because they went from

like, wait, there's a million more
episodes I haven't listened to.

Where am I gonna find the time?

I.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yeah, I'm, I'm sure that's

what they're thinking.

Uh, Darren, with us, I'm, I'm very
excited about, uh, today's episode.

Uh, as in the past, we bring in just top.

Quality, top tier, top talent guests.

And, uh, this week's episode is no
exception with this is Cameron Sawyer

a good friend that with that, uh,
we've worked together in the past.

And Cameron, thank you for being here.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Thank you guys for having me.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Um,
where, uh, I don't even know where you

are, are you, are you, uh, we know that
the, the podcast is recorded in Utah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yes, and I'm, I, I live in the

great state of Utah in, uh,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
are you now?

Okay.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
I'm here in Utah.

I'm in Sandy,

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: Nice.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
This is South Salt Lake.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Okay.

Well good.

Well thank, well it works out then
we're all in the same time zone.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Uh,
thank you again very much for being here.

Cameron, you've, uh, we, I reached
out to you, uh, and said, Hey, we

would love to talk about some of these
projects that you've been working on

because I've been following a little
bit, uh, just some of your public posts

about some very exciting projects.

Um.

And thought it would be just a perfect fit
for truly independent and our listeners.

And, and it's a little bit selfish
'cause I just wanna kind of pick

your brain, uh, to see how you're
doing all the stuff that you're

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Well, I wanna pick your

brain, so this will work out.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
This'll be great.

Yeah.

Forget about the audience.

We're just here to kind chat.

Well, good.

So just by way of introduction, can
you just give us a, a, an introduction

of kind of who you are and, and
what you've done and kind of what,

what's brought you to this point?

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Sure, sure.

Yeah.

I, um, I grew up in Utah.

Uh, no members of my
family were filmmakers.

Um,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
story so far.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
yeah.

Which, you know, so it was.

It was like, is this something I
could actually do for a living?

Um, you know, I had one cousin
uh, decided to go into film

and I thought, you lucky, man.

Uh, you're gonna starve.

But, um, you know, good luck.

I, I just, I was like, I, I
just wish I had the courage

that he had to go into film.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
it's not by chance.

His name is Cameron as well.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
It is Brandon, Brandon Sawyer.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Brandon Ryder.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yeah.

Yeah.

He was, he, uh, he's, he's amazing.

I love Brandon.

He was the showrunner
of Boss Baby on Netflix.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Oh, he did Boss baby.

He did penguins, right?

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
So it worked out for him.

It worked out for him.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
He's done.

All right.

Good

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
It, he's done all right.

But it was, it was a leap of
faith and, and I remember our

grandmother was so proud of him.

I just thought, man, I mean,
that's what I would wanna do

if I had my choice, you know?

Um,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: great.

That's so fun.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
so, uh, yeah, I've, I've always been

a huge fan of big budget movies,
big spectacle, uh, love Steven

Spielberg, um, David Fincher, you
know, some of those filmmakers.

And, um.

Yeah, I, I went to, I went to BYU as an
undergrad, studied broadcast journalism.

'cause I, it was sort of
entertainment adjacent, I guess,

um, allowed me to, safety net
allowed me to shoot and edit things.

But I thought, okay, well it's probably
a little bit more, um, uh, I can

probably make a living doing this.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

A

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yeah.

Hireable or whatever.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah,

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714: um.

Anyway, I worked in business for a
couple years after my undergrad and

I just felt like film was my calling.

I always felt that way
even when I was young.

You guys probably have
the same experience.

Um, yeah, same, same curse.

No, that's exactly right.

It's a curse.

Uh, and so I just thought, you know, I, it
finally what occurred to me, it was like.

I truly wouldn't mind living in a van
down by the river if I could make movies

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
and, and when I decided

that, I was like, I'm all in.

There's no backup plan.

I'm all in and I'm gonna do

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
it's a scary decision to

make, scary mindset to be in.

But you think, you know what, there's
a whole, whole, whole city, whole

southern California's full of those,

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
right.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
they're, they're somehow

they're making it work.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yeah, so, uh, so I applied to film

schools to be a director, I got
into pretty much the Harvard of film

schools for big budget filmmaking.

Um, it's called Chapman University.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yes.

Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Um, and they're really big on, um.

How do I explain this?

Just sort of like a, um, it's a
conservatory approach where have a core

group of directors, a core group of
cinematographers, editors, producers,

and you sort of focus on one thing.

And, uh, picked 19 directors
out of, I heard thousands of,

um, you know, applications

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714: uh,
at the time it was really on the rise.

And then, um, the duffer brothers.

who went to Chapman made Stranger
things, and now it's just

really on the map, you know?

Um, but I had an amazing experience there.

My thesis advisors were
top-notch filmmakers.

Um, Martha Coolidge
was one of my advisors.

I.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Oh, is that right?

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
David Ward who, uh, wrote and

directed all the major League movies.

Um, John Batam did war games, and, uh,
I had the best professors at Chapman.

It was such a good experience.

I'm still in debt.

I'll be in debt for many more years,
uh, because of that experience.

But, um, I loved it.

And the best thing about going
to film school, and I know it's

not for everyone and it's not a.

not a necessary thing.

Uh, but for me the best thing was
to just sort of experiment with my

voice and have all that support.

'cause filmmaking's expensive,
you know, and it's time, and

you need, you need support.

Um, anyway, uh, my graduate thesis
film, uh, was I decided to do something

kind of personal did a, a film about.

My first relationship in the fifth
grade, uh, is called she's a Fox.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yes.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
And um,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Is
this where we get to credit you with

finding, uh, one of our, our major
national treasure talents right now?

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
yes, yes, I bring it up all the

time because, it's, it's one of the
things that sort of gave me, um,

confidence to keep moving forward.

But, uh, I cast then unknown Hailey
Steinfeld to be in, uh, to be the fox.

The fox in the movie.

And by the way, if your viewers
want to watch this, it's on Vimeo.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Okay.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Um, I can

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: a fox.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
She's a Fox.

Yeah.

Um, and, uh, anyway, that
movie did really, really

great on the festival circuit

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Sure.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
sort of gave me the.

The heat to raise money to do, uh,
my first feature film, which was,

uh, Tim Timmerman, hope of America.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: And
that's where we started interacting.

We, we kind of engaged in that.

I was on the marketing side of that.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yeah, you cut, you cut the trailer.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
You did a great job.

So thank you for that.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
such a fun movie.

Like if I remember watching it for the
first time, like, this is Ferris Bueller.

Uh, but yeah, done, done
in a very, very fun style.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yeah, you, you, uh, you picked up on

all the things that made that, that
movie, um, uh, interesting, I guess.

And we picked the right
person to do the trailer.

So thank you Garrett for that.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: okay,

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714: Uh,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
you put that with Angel.

You released that through
Angel at some point.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714: yes.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: help
Angel That was one of their first feature

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
That was their first release.

And it was actually, at
the time it was Vid Angel

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
and it was their first movie release.

And um, we had a great experience
getting to know them it's been

fun to see their trajectory and

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Right.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
get bigger as a distributor.

Uh, but yeah, that was a really
crucial relationship that was

developed is is through that movie and.

It was through that movie.

And by the way, I, I, I
gotta say this to you.

I, I've loved this mantra,
uh, that I wanna say to all

your filmmakers out there.

This is such a good mantra, and
you guys probably relate to this.

I once heard that those who produce,
produce, and I don't know if that,

does that make sense to you guys?

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Oh, a hundred percent.

We talk all the time about how if
you're a writer, you have to be writing.

If you're an actor, you need
to be acting like that is.

That's the gig, that's the deal.

That's what you do every day

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Mm-hmm.

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714:
and producing.

I think you have the most autonomy of
all those because it comes down to you

anyway, so might as well go make stuff.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yeah.

Especially now when it's so
inexpensive to make things,

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
it's, I, it's so easy to just sort

of like keep developing and keep
developing and not produce anything.

I.

I just, when I heard that it
really helped me as a filmmaker.

'cause I thought, you know, I,
I gotta, I gotta get things off.

I gotta make it happen.

Um, and, uh, I've lost my
train of thought now, but, um

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
and you're doing that, you,

you're, you're doing that, so it
seems like a variety of projects.

I mean, whether it's a short
film or a feature or whatever

else you're working on,

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714: Oh.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
you're producing,

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
You reminded me of, you reminded

me of where I was going with that.

So of the people that I met on Tim
Timmerman was Christian Bus Safe.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Oh.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yeah.

Uh, I cast him to play the security guard.

I had never met him.

I actually cast him off of the internet.

He was sort of an internet sensation.

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah,

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
He played the,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Rightfully so.

I mean, he is

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: ninja
and a whole bunch of other stuff.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: yeah,

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
yeah, the fruit ninja.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
fun to watch and

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
He's.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
a wonderful guy.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714: so
creative and he's such, he's so brilliant.

And especially with comedy.

And we became fast friends and he was the
one who came to me like a year later and

said, I think we need to do Fable Haven.

And uh,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
a small, that's not a small project.

It's not a small

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
that's not small.

No.

And I was like.

Tell me more.

And he said, he said, you
hadn't heard of the book.

And I, just to be really transparent,
at the time I had not heard of the book.

So he's like, you must read it tonight.

You know,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
went and read it feverishly.

I, I could not believe that that
book had not been produced yet

into a movie or a TV series.

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: Right.

My, my kids are still saying that
today because they are obsessed

with Fable Haven and telling him.

I told my oldest son who's the most
obsessed that we're chatting today,

and he was like, I hate you so much.

I can't believe you can't believe
you have this life where you get to

talk to cool people all the time.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
awesome.

anyway, I fell in love with it.

I immediately saw that it needed
to be made, like it had to be made.

Um, and, uh, and if I was lucky
enough to be a part of that, then

uh, I'd be a lucky man, you know?

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
So Cameron, how do you wrap

your brain around that from an
independent filmmaker point of view?

You know, you've made Tim to run,
uh, you've got, it seems like.

of these different puzzle
pieces, you know, maybe in to

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Mm-hmm.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: And
then you have this, this, this book

that reading through it, you know,
I've read through it and you go, Hey,

this is not an independent film budget.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714: No.

And, and Garrett.

No, that's a, it's a really
great point you bring up.

well, first of all, one of the
things that I learned by making

my first independent feature, and
by the way, I didn't, I didn't set

out to be an independent filmmaker.

I wanted to be part of the
club, wanted to join Hollywood,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah,

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
know, and, uh.

And had the, I had the
background that, that made me

totally, hireable in Hollywood.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
and I got some offers to be

a writer on some TV shows.

And, but I really wanted to direct.

And so I, I went into independent
filmmaking, out of necessity.

'cause I knew that that
was my way into directing.

The way I could show that I can, can
direct, you know, but through that

experience, one of the things that I
learned is that it's so helpful to have

a property that people already recognize.

And that's why studios, do
remakes, they do, movies based

on books and things like that.

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yeah, they're always looking.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
I love, I love original content, um.

But I thought, you know, this
next one that I do, I wanna do

something that's recognizable
and I wanna do it with Hollywood.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah,

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714: I

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714:
So what, what time period is this?

Like when was this happening, when you
had the conversation with Christian and

said, we need to go pursue this, because
the book was already big and so how, how

did you start and when was this timeline.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yes.

Thank, good question, Darren.

The, the book had bounced
around Hollywood for.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
rights do it.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Rights for like 15 years.

And it was, it had, you know,
people would pick up the rights and

then it would go into development.

Hell, and then they'd drop
the rights and then somebody

else would pick up the rights.

And so, um, was 2018 and the rights
just happened to be available.

And, um, Christian knew
the author's sister.

So he said,

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: Nice.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
do you think that we could

set up a lunch meeting?

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Did Brandon, Brandon, Brandon Mo,

uh, did he own the rights or did

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714: did
Well, he, yes, he and, uh, and Desiree

book, which, well, shadow Mountain,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Mountain,

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
is a, um,

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: Wow.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
the umbrella of Desere book

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
and it, to date, it's like

their biggest book, um,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Oh

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: easily.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: yeah.

One of my first encounters with
Fable Haven was I was invited

to, uh, a book release event.

And, um, I don't know why I was there
because I was clearly the oldest

person in the room, was just packed.

I mean, this auditorium probably 700,
know, high school age students just,

you know, rabid for this next release.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yeah.

yeah.

Really, really big.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
so they own the

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
So they

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
the rides.

You're at lunch with the sister.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
we're at lunch with Brandon.

Uh, so she set up the lunch and um, I.

just pitched him really hard
on it and we have a vision for,

for how we want the movie to go.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
And, um,

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: So it's
you and Christian doing the pitching.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
this is Christian and me and um,

and Brandon really liked what he was
hearing, but he wanted to read a script.

So we wrote a script on spec.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Ooh.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Two months, two months to write a, it was

basically a rough draft of the script,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
and we gave it to Brandon and he said,

it's clear that you guys get this.

And, uh, kudos for him or
to him for recognizing that.

Um, and so he said, I, I will,
let's, let's start the process.

And it was not an easy process.

We had to work through his agent.

Um, at writer's house, we had to work
through Desere book, shadow Mountain.

we had to work through our lawyers
and, you know, it went back and forth.

It was probably a six month process of

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
And, and,

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714: I

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
you just incurring costs on this?

I mean,

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yeah,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: any
development money or you're just saying,

Hey, we believe in this project, we're
gonna kind of bootstrap this thing

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
we incur, well, so our attorney.

Worked on, um, I, I don't even know what
that's called, where, uh, he, he pro bono

basically, but knowing that if, if we did
a deal, uh, you know, at some point that

he would be paid his percentage, you know,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Okay.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
um, we did incur some costs.

I think it was, I can't remember.

I mean, we had to buy the option.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Okay.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
You know, so, um, we, I mean, quite

frankly, and I know this is gonna
make some of your, your, uh, listeners

kind of sick to their stomach if they
don't have sort of like a, propensity

to, uh, what's it called gamble?

Humble.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
just say it didn't mortgage your house.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
we, we took out a loan,

took out a really big loan.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
And bought the rights for 18 months.

And this is in 2000?

This is middle of 2018.

I think it might have been 2019.

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: Wow.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
what happened the next year?

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Okay, so

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Everybody was accepting pitches.

Come into our office and pitch
us with, with no masks on.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
yeah, exactly.

So, um, it was

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
wow, wow.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Covid hit.

We were just like, what now?

Because, because studio
stopped making movies

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
and um, you know what happened

though is streaming took off.

'cause people were stuck at home watching,

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yep.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
there was like an 80% jump in

streaming or something like that.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
It was all that nostalgia.

Fair.

Like anything nostalgic, anything.

Yeah, it was awesome.

This would've,

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
So it was really weird timing.

What happened was, is, um.

When you do an option deal in
the contract, it says that if

there's an act of God it extends
the length of the contract.

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: Nice.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Well, that was a pretty

big act of God if you know,

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Global Pandemic qualifies.

Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
An act of the Chinese or something.

But, uh, you know what?

Whatever you might, you might call
it, I think it qualifies a world

pandemic qualifies as an act of God

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
and it extended the, the, um, the rights.

And um, and then, and then what's
interesting is a lot of, um, streaming

services started reaching out to us.

Um, and I, I'll mention
some of these names.

Disney reached out.

Apple reached out.

I think Amazon.

So it, it really helped us to pitch it.

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: Okay,
so how, let's pause for one second

there, because everyone listening to this
is gonna go, but how did that happen?

So what, what were you doing to make those
kind of players aware of your project?

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Um, there were a couple

of things that happened.

Number one, um, uh, a professor
of mine at film school.

connected me to our
attorney, mark Von Arks.

Uh, and he's been a Hollywood attorney
for 30 years, so, um, so that really

helped us out, gave us some clout.

And then, um, uh, and then my movie,
Tim Timmerman, uh, was seen by an

internet celebrity um, uh, Scott dw.

Do you guys know?

You,

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
know Scott.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
He was working with, uh, a really

big Hollywood producer, and I, I
won't, I won't name names, um, but,

uh, but that producer, uh, I got
to know him through that project.

So I was hired by, I was brought on to a,
that project with Scott to help him write.

It was a high school comedy.

Uh, and once again, it, you
know, the feature film, Tim

Timmerman it, it helped me meet.

Scott DW, who helped me meet
this producer in Hollywood.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
that project, uh, fell apart, which

often happens with, um, productions.

And, uh, and then I, so I reached out
to this producer and I said, Hey, I have

some other projects, and I mentioned
Fable Haven, and he read the script.

took him a month to get to it.

Uh,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
but he read the script and he said,

this is the next Harry Potter.

And I had the chills for like a week,
you know, so he's like, we didn't

sign a contract with him, didn't sign,
sign a shopping agreement with him.

but he said, could, could I take it
out and see if I could can it set up

at a studio, uh, with you directing?

And I said, uh, twist my arm.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

Hey.

No, lemme think about that
for about four seconds.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
exactly.

So I was really excited about that.

But, um, you know, and I, I, I'll
be really transparent about this.

I think this might be helpful to your
listeners, but studios had a real

hard time with me being the director,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah,
just I would assume just lack of resume.

I.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
lack of resume in the Hollywood system,

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah, we,

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
like.

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714:
we had the same thing happen

when we were pitching.

We'd go down to a FM, we'd meet with
all the distributors and sales agents

and be like, look, we got this project.

And they'd say, great.

You should actually do it for
more money than you're saying.

But you can't, you can't
have your director.

We need someone who's proven.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yeah.

And you know, thankfully, so I
mentioned the, the duffer brothers

that, that went to my film school.

Thankfully I'd, I'd learned from
their experience Hollywood tried

to squeeze those guys out over
and over and over the studios.

And tried to change the story like, Hey,
I don't think it should be about kids.

I think it should
actually be about the cop.

You know, or I mean, their stories
very, if you can just Google it and you

can watch videos on YouTube about it.

But, um, all the studios tried to
squeeze them out, you know, and

it was Netflix that actually said,
we're gonna let you guys direct.

And how did that turn out for Netflix?

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Everybody.

Everybody did okay

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: I.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
All right.

So I thought to myself, uh, I'm
not gonna let them squeeze us out.

Um, there was one studio that we
got really excited about and, and

it, they allowed us to be, uh,
a real big part of, the process.

And it was weird.

We felt really good about it,
and we thought, you know what?

Uh, I know our dream is
to make this into a movie.

But I think it would be an okay TV show.

Let's, let's go ahead and just
see what they can do with it.

And so we did sell the rights to a big
studio and then it went into development.

Development.

Hell and, and hell is the key word.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Just gets

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Oh my gosh.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
suctioned.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
I, I, that happened, we, we all

regretted it, you know, a few months in.

We were just like, this isn't the
right direction for Fable Haven.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
are the, what are the signs?

Are they sending scripts?

Are they saying, okay, here's who we

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
They, they hired, they hired a

really big showrunner to, um, to
develop the project um, his, his

interpretation of the material.

You wouldn't even recognize
it was Fable Haven.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
The title was the only thing.

He was combining characters, totally
rewriting the story, which is like insane

us because the story is what made it.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
That's what people are.

That's what fills up the
auditoriums every time he

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
That's, that's why that book is

so brilliant is the story, right?

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: yeah.

Yeah.

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: So
at this point, Cameron, are you still

paying off the loan or like did you.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
We, we had sold, we had sold the

rights to this studio and, and we
actually had the foresight to say

that if they didn't produce the
show, we would get the rights back.

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: Nice.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
again,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
time, was there a time limit

there or is that what it was?

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
I'm trying to think, let me think.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
did they have to just pass?

They just eventually said,
no, we're not gonna do it.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
They had, they had a year and a half to

do it and then they could have re-upped,

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
but, um, but it was interesting.

It was sort of an act of fate, I think.

They had a huge hit with another show
and it made them switch their whole,

um, focus onto a different genre.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Gotcha.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
And, uh, and they called us immediately

and they said, you guys want this
back because we have to buy it back.

And so they wanted us to buy it back.

And, and in the, in the interim,
angel Studios had really taken off

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Okay.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
and I was like.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
With whom you had already worked?

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
With whom I'd already worked.

And we wanted to do this as a movie.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: what

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
always, always wanted

to do this as a movie.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
So I was like, the stars are aligning.

We have to buy this back and we
have to move forward with Angel.

Um, and that's what we did.

We bought the rights back.

We, we worked out a deal, a
distribution deal with Angel.

And, uh, our goal right now is to
release this movie, uh, end of 2026.

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: Holy cow.

So when did those rights re, when
did you buy those rights back?

23, 2 4.

Or was it before that?

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714: Six

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: wow.

Okay.

So they were, you were in this
kind of development health for

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Long time.

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714:
a long time.

So are there, I mean,
lessons from the battlefield?

You're talking 2019 to 2024

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yeah,

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714:
on this project.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
yeah.

I mean, don't know.

I guess the main lesson
that I've learned is that.

You guys know this.

If a movie's gonna get
made, it's gonna get made.

Like, like things will fall into
place have a good, and by the

way, we're not outta the woods.

We hope to have some, you
know, announcements soon, but

we're still raising money.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Are,
are we gonna break anything on this

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714: I,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Are we

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
I wish I could, I wish I could.

No, but we're,

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: done
it before with other guests, so we are

establishing ourselves as the go-to place.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
From now it'll be breaking.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Bring me back on if we have breaking

news, but um, no, I just kind of feel
like art in general, filmmaking, and

this is sort of like Ladi Dotty, you
know, like, how do I explain this?

Like, um, I just feel like things happen
the way they're supposed to happen.

I'll give you an example.

I've been listening to Peter Jackson
in the making of Middle Earth.

Um, 'cause it's like a triumph.

It's like the greatest fantasy movie
ever or movie series ever made.

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
And it's so amazing to me how close

they came to not getting that made
new line cinema was their last ditch.

If it wasn't new line,
it wasn't getting made.

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
And then even after they did a

deal, like, you know, Peter Jackson.

getting all this pressure.

You know, they came this close to
hiring Sean Cony to play, uh, Gondal,

uh, Nicholas Cage was
apparently offered Aragon.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Okay.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714: I
mean, think about how, I mean, I think

Sean Connery would've done a decent
job, but I can't imagine Nicholas

Cage is Um, I, I'm, I'm trying to
think of all the things, but like.

They actually, they had cast
somebody else to play Aragon.

It was, um, was, uh,

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Were talking to Russell

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: didn't,

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714:
at one point.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Morson didn't come in until, you

know, just a couple weeks before

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
no, he came in after production started.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
yeah, yeah.

A couple weeks before he
was supposed to shoot.

Right.

He is like reading the book
on the plane down in New

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: I.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Stewart Townsend.

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: Oh yeah.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Okay.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
the, he went through all

of the rehearsals, and, um.

It's really tragic for him,
but they ca they fired him like

two days into the production.

'cause they just didn't feel like

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Wasn't

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
wasn't right.

Just wasn't right.

So, don't know.

I just think that setbacks happen.

Um, devastating things happen, but if
your heart's in the right place and you

have a vision you try to stick to it, uh,
I think really good things come about.

You know,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: So,

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
know.

I.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
without, uh, without announcing anything,

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Mm-hmm.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
you're, you're back with,

you're, you're with Angel.

You've got the support there,
there's a distribution deal set

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Mm-hmm.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
You and Christian are of

just gung-ho guns blazing.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Mm-hmm.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
moving things forward.

Is that,

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yes.

Yes.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
gotta a release date

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
We have a release date.

It, and it's, it's the same.

It's the problem that every
independent film has is money.

Right.

Not the problem, but it's the biggest, um.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Obstacle or.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
It's the biggest, yeah.

Step

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714:
I would actually say from our

experience, the audience, the
marketing is the hardest part.

The financing is secondary, but
you've already solved that problem

by saying this is a beloved thing.

It's been 20 years that
this book's been around.

I.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Mm-hmm.

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: And
there's already a massive fan base for it.

So just being able to announce
on some outlet Fable Haven movie

coming to theaters, you're,
you've already got millions of

people who are interested in that.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
What's exciting about it's the angel

has a really big reach in terms of
how many theaters they can get into.

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
They, I mean, they're killing

it right now with King of Kings

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Mm-hmm.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: uh,
certainly Faith of Angels is, is being

distributed there on their streaming

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Mm-hmm.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
um, I mean, we're at Maybe I, maybe

I'm not allowed to say those numbers,

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
So awesome.

No, it's so great.

They have over a million subscribers
now on their streaming service,

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714:
I wouldn't be surprised if

it's five by the end of this
year at the rate they're going.

It's pretty crazy.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
really doing great.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
a hockey stick right now.

It's just amazing.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yeah.

And, and our movie, um.

more movies more mainstream than
they've, they've done in the past.

They have done some mainstream
movies, uh, 'cause a lot of

what they do is faith-based.

but I think that they really, from
a strategic standpoint, I think

this is, this is important to them
because they wanna make family movies

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
and I think Fable Haven.

you know, it's certainly
not, um, it's a little scary.

It's a little scary in places, you
know, but, uh, it's good versus evil.

It's, um, it something.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
I, it's perfect.

I mean, you can clearly see why
the angel audience and a broad, you

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Mm-hmm.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
theatrical audience is gonna support this

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yeah.

You want, you wanna teach
your kids the consequences of.

Of evil and, and that evil's out there
and that there's good versus evil, right?

And I really believe in that.

And, um, and this movie really,
or this, sorry, this story really,

uh, sort of focuses on the theme of
making choices and how choices have

consequences and things like that.

And I think that's, that plays
right into um, uh, you know,

good family fair basically.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Cameron, what are you, uh,

you, you mentioned, um, f
funding is still the obstacle.

That will always be the obstacle.

I mean, you've got, you've got the,
the, the best picture winner that stands

up in his Oscar speech and says, you
know, please continue to fund these

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Mm-hmm.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
so, you know, independent or

Hollywood, we're always looking for.

To ways around that obstacle.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Um,
and, and so that's where you're at now

as an independent and, but you're also
doing this very independently saying,

Hey, we're gonna go outside the studio

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Mm-hmm.

' garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: cause
we're taking control of the content

and we're making a stand on what we

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Mm-hmm.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
theaters,

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
which is an amazing thing.

You've had some success
with crowdfunding, um,

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Mm-hmm.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Angel, is that right?

Do you

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Uh, let me think.

Um, no, we passed the
Guild with a torch video.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Okay.

That's what you do.

You pass the guilt.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yeah.

And the way Angel does.

their fund raisings?

They, they, they sort of leave
it to the filmmakers to raise

the funds for the production,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Right

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
and then once the movie's produced,

they'll do a, um, they will do a crowd
raise for, uh, marketing p and a,

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
which is awesome.

It's

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
which I just, I just invested in King of

Kings just to try it out, just to see.

How it's going.

And, uh, it looks like there'll
be a return on, on that.

Um, uh, that's how they do it.

They do a, um, they do sort of a last
minute push in crowdfunding and what it

does is it creates some excitement around,
um, the movie when you have multiple

investors, uh, investing in the p and a.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Oh yeah.

Well, yeah.

They become you.

Not only do they become
investors, but they become a

very grassroots marketing team.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yeah.

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: You
get free word of mouth in addition.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714: It's
part of the secret sauce of what they do.

Um, the Guild is a huge part, uh,
because guild members get free

tickets and, um, and, and, yeah.

Anyway.

Mm-hmm.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Uh, I'm so, and I think your

title is perfect for it.

It's so, it's so exciting

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
an outsider perspective to be

watching, kind of going, rooting for
it and saying, okay, man, this is,

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
prove the model right here.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
We're excited about it and we

feel like, um, we feel like the
timing is just really great.

It, it's, it's just a
great book, book series.

Uh, really great distributor with Angel.

and you know, the technology's come a long
way just in the last few years, uh, did

you guys watch, uh, house of David at all?

Have you watched any of that?

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: yeah.

That's Amazon Prime
from the Irwin Brothers.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Amazon Prime.

Yeah.

I actually, uh, I actually worked
on that show in Greece last summer.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
is that right?

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yeah.

And, um, I got to, I got to
hang out on the set and meet all

the actors and, all this stuff.

It was really great.

And um, but they used a lot
of AI technology in that show.

And,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Hmm.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
uh, some of the AI technology is.

Believable and I, I don't know
exactly how we'll utilize that maybe

in some, um, production design.

Um,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Oh yeah.

I think it's, I mean,
and it's so accessible.

It's, it's, uh, available to.

You know, in every stage
of production, I think,

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
yeah,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
AI is involved and not

necessarily to replace jobs, but

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714: no.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
enhance what we're doing.

um, yeah.

From, Darren and I have talked a little
bit about even in development, uh, you

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Mm-hmm.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
using AI to start building out your,

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Visualization and things like that.

Pre-vis,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yep.

Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
no, it's really great timing and

uh, it filmmaking's just so much
more accessible, and that's the

good news to independent filmmakers.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: I
was asked, I was, I gave a, I was at

a presentation this weekend speaking
to a group of, you know, a couple

hundred people and, uh, uh, of the
questions, and I'm gonna ask it to

you because I'm not sure I answered it

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Mm-hmm.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
but they stood up and said, you

know, with this proliferation of.

You know, everybody has cameras
in their pockets and, you know,

we can distribute via YouTube.

What does that do for
independent filmmakers?

Like what does it, how does that,
is that scary or helpful or what

do you, what are your, what's your
take on, on, on what you just said

about technology being accessible and

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Mm-hmm.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
being available to us?

How does that

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Yeah, that's a great question.

Um, I.

I don't know if this answers your
question, but I've thought a lot about

that and you know, I mentioned earlier
that film school was a good way to,

um, to, to, you know, experiment and
to, to try new things out and, and see

what your voice is like, you know, uh,
well, when I was in school, you made a

movie and you went to film festivals,
but now, now, and it was expensive.

I mean, my short film was
like $15,000, you know?

when.

When you are on the internet,
uh, you can shoot things on your

phone, you can edit on your phone.

It's very inexpensive and people are
more forgiving wouldn't you guys say?

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
As far as the quality.

and, and it's so, it's like you
have a test group right in front

of your right at your hands.

You can literally just try
things out and if they hit.

You can be like, oh, that works.

That's interesting.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
I should keep going in that direction.

So I think it's a good way
to inexpensively experiment.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Uh,
yeah, that, that makes a lot of sense.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Mm-hmm.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
and, and how great it is that

we all have that access to it.

And

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Mm-hmm.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
I encouraged him to say, look,

use this to improve your craft.

I think what it will

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Mm-hmm.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
is it'll separate, it'll improve

everybody from kind of who
wants to be interested in it.

I wanna try this out, improve it, or
sort 'em out and say, oh, that's tough.

I don't like to do that.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
well, I mentioned, I mentioned,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
people like you that are using it and

doing it to be able to rise to the top
and go, okay, now it's gonna improve our

theatrical experience, because Brandon,
who's producing all this stuff and now

is putting that skill into Fable Haven
is gonna really know how to bring it.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
yeah.

And I mentioned earlier,
uh, Scott dw right.

He, he's an internet sensation.

He, that's how he met that Hollywood
producer is making internet videos.

If you haven't seen his videos,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
They're just high energy and so

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
So fun, so good.

And, and Christian was,
was a internet celebrity.

um, it's really cool because it's
an avenue to break in, right?

Like, you know, with, with art, it's all
about, like, everyone wants to know what.

How do you break in?

Like, mean, if you wanna be a doctor,
there's a certain path, right?

You go to medical school for X
amount of, uh, years, and then

you go and do your rotations and
then, but there is no, there's

literally no playbook in filmmaking.

And it's scary.

It's scary, but there's
also a lot of opportunity.

You know, I mean, a lot of filmmakers
are broken in through standup comedy.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Now filmmakers are breaking in

through, uh, the internet, you
know, and it's just exciting.

It's, uh, I would just look at it as
another sort of tool that if you can get

really good at, at, at doing internet
videos, it can open up doors for you.

That's the way I would
look at it, you know,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
but it's not the only way.

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Um.

Man, I, I could just talk with you
forever because I, I, I want to

ask all, all sorts of questions.

You've been super generous
with your, your time.

Um, it, what's the, what's the,
what's the takeaway, Brandon?

I mean, as far as where you are now?

You know,

what, what's the takeaway
on what you've, what?

What these past five years of developing
Fable Haven have, have become, and then,

um, just like immediate next steps, what,

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714: Um.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
our listeners help or

watch for or help you do?

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Well, uh, I don't know.

The takeaway for me is that, uh, I think
that you guys would agree with this is

that if we can make movies, uh, we're
the luckiest people on the, on the earth.

You

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
know, was the coolest thing

about going to film school.

And like I said, your listeners shouldn't
think that they have to go to film school.

It's not a necessary.

Step, you know, step to,
to breaking in or whatever.

But what was amazing is when I went to
school, I, all of a sudden, everyone

I was in school with believed that
filmmaking was one of the greatest

things that you can do on the planet.

It wasn't something that was looked down
on or like, wasn't taken seriously as

a career or whatever the case may be.

I just think we're really lucky if we
can be involved in filmmaking in any,

in any capacity because it's so special.

It's, um, there's a reason
why it's probably the most

popular art form in the world.

It's, uh, we need stories.

It's imp and it, it's funny to
me how society puts such a high

value on film art, but like.

But like then when their sons and
daughters want to go into filmmaking, it's

like, no, you can't, you can't do that.

My parents were so great by the way.

They were just like, we
will help you in any way.

Like, do it.

Go for it.

This is, you know, you have a propensity
for this, so go, go and do it.

But a lot of people's families
just aren't supportive.

Communities aren't supportive
and, um, I don't know.

I dunno if that makes sense.

That's the takeaways.

It just, we're just really lucky
if we're, if we can make films.

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
No, that's a 43 minutes

of this podcast and go.

God, what a journey.

Like five years working on
one story, what a journey.

And now in this last minute to hear you
say it's worth it, like this is the dream.

You know,

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
It is worth it unless it all falls

apart on this one, but then I'll just
go and do something, something else.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
just, just, can we just give up

and just go be a brain surgeon?

Like let's do something easy.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Well, if I, you know, if I was born

with that, with that love, then yeah.

But no, you're right.

Like there's a trade off.

You know, I mean, I don't
know how to explain this.

It's like you can go and do
that stuff and it's great.

Um, you know, uh, taking care of
your family is the most important

thing, I think, personally,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: For

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
but, but if you can do that and

make movies like that, oh my gosh.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

It's winning the lottery.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
That's winning the lottery.

Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714: So,

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: man.

Uh,

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Thank you.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714:
good to chat with you.

Good to catch up.

And, uh, thank you for, for sharing your
experience and we're just know that, uh,

know that we're just rooting for you.

We just can't.

So

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
well, I really appreciate that

and I'm rooting for you guys.

I've, I've loved watching you
guys progress and, and keep

making good movies and, uh,

daren-smith_1_04-29-2025_100714:
Thank you.

squadcaster-j6d0_1_04-29-2025_100714:
uh, it's, it's nice to know you.

garrett-batty_1_04-29-2025_100714: Yeah.

Thanks man.

Uh, appreciate you guys listening in.

Uh, we'll do a, we'll do
a little wrap up here.

We'll

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311:
Oh, awesome.

Awesome.

Cameron Sawyer, what a treat to be able
to hear the story that he's been through

the last couple years because that is
quite the journey for this one project I.

garrett-batty_2_04-29-2025_105311:
It really is.

And just to see his like positivity
and optimism and, and just relentless

effort is, it's motivating.

Honestly, it's inspiring.

Some people might look at that
and say, that's exhausting.

But you go, no.

That's how these things are done.

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311:
Yeah, they, I wonder how they feel

about it, but to me it seems like a,
a benefit to have this kind of forcing

function of an option agreement, right?

If you have 18 months to get into
production, that lights a fire under

your butt a little bit, and you
go, okay, well I gotta figure it

out, or else I don't get to do it.

And so I wonder if there's
some way that we could.

Um, do that to ourselves.

You know, give ourselves an 18 month
option agreement on an idea to say,

look, I'm gonna push hard on this
thing for 12 or 18 months, and if it

doesn't come together in that amount
of time, I'm gonna move to the next

project, or something like that.

I wonder if that would benefit
certain filmmakers who need

that sort of, um, extra element
to, to make progress every day.

But I, I wonder if that's
been helping helpful for them.

garrett-batty_2_04-29-2025_105311:
Yeah, it's a great, it could

be a great principle to kind
of stay motivated, right?

I always think, you know, I can on, on
a, on set, I'm shooting six to eight

pages a day, like, and we're getting
a hundred people to work together to

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311: Yeah.

garrett-batty_2_04-29-2025_105311: at
the end of the day, six to eight pages.

So why in the world can't I
sit down the morning and write

six to eight pages a day?

For as, as a writer, I'm the
only person there, and so, um,

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311:
It's because you don't have

craft services in your office.

That's why

garrett-batty_2_04-29-2025_105311: Okay.

Well let's make that happen then.

That seems like a pretty easy

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311: Simple

garrett-batty_2_04-29-2025_105311: if

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311:
solution have.

garrett-batty_2_04-29-2025_105311:
if at the end of four weeks, if you

have four weeks, I have a script done.

That's, that's worth having a
craft service in your office for

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311: Yeah,
well, having done that same thing just to,

'cause I think it's an interesting topic.

Like I've written scripts in six months
and I've written scripts in three weeks

because I had an executive producer say.

Gimme a script

garrett-batty_2_04-29-2025_105311: Yeah.

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311:
it was just like, oh, I'm gonna

get this as quickly as possible.

'cause they want to develop it together.

And it came together in three weeks.

And I don't think it was because
the idea was better or easier,

I think it was because they,
there was this external element.

So that may, may mean you need to look
at some of those external things first

to say, oh, I've got an interested
distributor, or an interested production

partner, or an interested financier
that's waiting on just the next step.

That'll certainly motivate you.

garrett-batty_2_04-29-2025_105311: Maybe
we just teased, uh, uh, another episode.

you know, let's have somebody on
here that, that can talk about,

uh, type of mindset and what it is
seems like a Darren Smith mindset.

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311:
You just said mindset.

I'm like, ding, ding.

If only we had a cohost talk all the,

garrett-batty_2_04-29-2025_105311: just
saw your aura, just kind of like expand,

like oh, mindset, processes, systems,

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311: let's,

garrett-batty_2_04-29-2025_105311:
LinkedIn.

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311: let's.

garrett-batty_2_04-29-2025_105311:
Um, cool man.

Well, great, great discussion.

Uh, anything else going on this week?

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311: No,
I'm just, I'm excited for, and just

grateful for all of the, the chatter
around Ryan Geller and Sinners.

I think there's a lot that benefits
just original films, not necessarily

independent films, but I mean, he wrote
that movie on spec and then took it

to the studios and said, who wants it?

And this is the deal.

If you want this movie,
you gotta do my deal.

And like that just speaks to what the
future holds, I think, for independent

filmmakers is you've gotta own.

The way that you want to do it,
you've gotta take more responsibility

for the entire process and doing so
there's, there's more upside there.

So I love that it's just taken off and
getting the, the attention it deserves.

I saw it in a big IMAX screen
format and loved every minute of it.

It's such a good movie.

I just hope that, um, everybody kind
of takes note and applies some of

those lessons that he graciously
is putting out in the world.

Like a, a lot of the marketing for
Sinners is Ryan Coogler, and he's

given us a masterclass in that as well.

garrett-batty_2_04-29-2025_105311:
Which is really interesting, even as

Cameron was talking about, you know,
hey, I needed an IP, or I needed

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311: I.

garrett-batty_2_04-29-2025_105311: that
would turn ahead, you know, he said, it's

either a book or an, you know, a sequel
or an existing property or a name actor.

And, uh, that popped in my mind is like,
oh, we're at that stage now where there,

there's a phase where the director, you
know, if the content is not, doesn't have

a proven audience, the director does.

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311: Yeah,

garrett-batty_2_04-29-2025_105311:
uh, Ryan.

There are a few that do that.

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311: yeah.

But Christopher Nolan or Edgar Wright,
or there's Gerwig, there's a number

of who cares what they make next.

I'm gonna go see it.

I know

garrett-batty_2_04-29-2025_105311: Yeah.

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311:
it'll be good.

Yeah,

garrett-batty_2_04-29-2025_105311:
Uh, then good stuff.

So that goes back to what we even started
this whole podcast, build your Audience.

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311:
yeah, exactly.

garrett-batty_2_04-29-2025_105311: I.

Hey man.

Well, good stuff.

I had a good week as well.

I got to shoot a commercial with
an old friend out in Wyoming,

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311: Oh, nice.

garrett-batty_2_04-29-2025_105311: nice
to just kind of be back on set and just,

it wasn't even a set, it was me going
out and hanging out for an afternoon

or for a day and, and filming for him.

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311: Yeah.

garrett-batty_2_04-29-2025_105311:
but it felt good.

And then I did a presentation
this weekend, uh, that I mentioned

during that conversation with
Cameron, and it was really.

neat.

Uh, I was talking about my past films
and just the different situations and

kinda lessons learned from these past
films and, uh, it was fun to be able

to share that with, with an audience.

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311: Yeah.

That's awesome.

garrett-batty_2_04-29-2025_105311:
another good week.

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311: Yeah,
I'm, I'm starting to feel the itch, uh,

more and more every day about trying
to get back on set, but I've, I've

kind of established myself as like,
I'm not taking work right now because

I'm raising money for projects that
I'm gonna produce through the fund.

So there's almost a
conflict of interest there.

But man, it'd be fun to just like, go
hang out on set one day with a friend

and just be like, okay, it's still here.

I we're, we're doing it, but so.

garrett-batty_2_04-29-2025_105311:
I'll tell you this.

I, I just sent a 15 page short script

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311: Hey,

garrett-batty_2_04-29-2025_105311: uh,
a distributor that has requested it.

And, uh, we'll find out this week
if that's gonna move forward, and

that would give us a day on set.

And

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311:
nice there.

garrett-batty_2_04-29-2025_105311:
same thing where I feel that itch

is like, I haven't done anything
narrative for a little bit.

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311: Yeah,

garrett-batty_2_04-29-2025_105311:
get going.

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311:
I've had three people in the last

month reach out about, uh, helping
produce a torch for Angel Studios.

And so that, that to me seems like,
oh, that, that could be a, a couple

of weeks, two or three days on set.

That could scratch the itch.

So we'll see.

We'll see if any of that comes together.

In the meantime, I'm just
hit knocking on doors.

I've got, I'm looking at my calendar and
I've got a dozen meetings lined up this

week, so I'm just feeling really grateful.

It goes back to what he was saying
about we're lucky to be in this.

Like I started raising money a few
months ago and now every week I've got

10 or 12 calls with people that are
interested in what I'm building with.

The producer fund, and at some point that
Flywheel's gonna make its first circle.

We'll get a big investor in and
that'll get the, it make it easier for

the next and the next and the next.

And then we're gonna be making
movies the next couple years.

So it'll happen.

Just we don't know when,
so you just keep going.

garrett-batty_2_04-29-2025_105311:
Just keep going.

Tune in and find out.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thanks for listening.

Uh, thanks for jumping in, Darren, and,
uh, and, uh, please share the episode.

Uh, let's, let's help get this, uh, out
there to the people that need to hear it.

daren-smith_2_04-29-2025_105311: Amazing.

Thanks everyone.

See you next week.

Thank you for listening to this
episode of Truly Independent.

To join us on the journey,
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S2 EP21 | From Dreams to Reality: Cameron Sawyer's Fable Haven Journey
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