S2 EP26 | Demystifying Indie Film: Lessons from the Trenches
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537:
this was my first feature film.
And he looks and says, who
is gonna give you $3 million?
It hurt.
It was like a punch in the gut.
I think.
Well, don't you, didn't you hear me?
Didn't you hear the idea?
It's great.
Like, and The realization is
that nobody owes me anything
just because it's some good idea
This is Truly Independent, a show that
demystifies the indie film journey by
documenting the process of releasing
independent films in theaters.
Each week, Garrett Batty and I,
Darren Smith, will update you
on our journey, bringing guests
to share their insights into the
process and answer your questions.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: I am excited
for today's conversation because you
know, the more that you and I post
online and the more that we're trying
to market ourselves in this show, like
we get a lot more people asking us
questions, and so I've, I've noticed,
at least in my own dms and emails.
Th this kind of underlying question
that happens when people get frustrated
that their project hasn't happened
yet, or hasn't gotten funded yet,
or hasn't gotten distribution yet.
This question of like, why, why, why
isn't it Why, why isn't it working yet?
And I am intimately aware.
Of that question, I have asked that
question of myself for my entire career.
That question really never
goes away in my experience.
But what I thought would be fun today is
to kind of ping pong back and forth with
answers to that question, why it may not
be happening for your project right now.
And we're gonna share some
experiences and get vulnerable again.
And people love those episodes.
And so, yeah, I, how do
you feel about this topic?
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537:
I think it, I think it's a great
idea for a topic and a, and a great
I mean, it, it, it's an answer.
It's a question that.
It never goes away, to be quite frank,
at least for, for me and in my experience
and having made eight feature films,
but been pitching the last year, you
know, a couple of other projects,
and you just never know which one is
gonna pick up which one is take off.
But that question of why isn't this
happening now, or in the timetable or
under the, the business model that I'm
anticipating, why isn't it happening?
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537:
I love it.
I love it.
And there's, these are some great
topping talking points, and hopefully
this comes across as experiences
shared and not theoretical.
we've now made it and don't
deal with this problem.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah, I'm, I'm
thinking of sharing, you know, the lessons
learned and then how I learned them.
So
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537: you go.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: why
don't we dive into the first one.
This one is kind of a more current
answer over the last six months
or so, I read a book called.
Demand side sales 1 0 1, and it
basically flips the script from supply
side selling to demand side selling.
So we could probably put a link in
the, in the show notes for this a post
that I wrote and a link to the book.
But the, the lesson I learned
was that I, I built a supply
for a demand that doesn't exist.
And so what that looks
like in practice is.
Most filmmakers assume that the
marketplace is like waiting for
their story, and because they feel
so compelled and so strong and
passionate about this project, that
there has to be some demand out there.
They just have to write it,
they just have to pitch it well.
They just have to show up and and share
it with people, and all of a sudden,
all the yeses are gonna come flowing in.
But that's just, it's not, it has not
been my experience, unfortunately.
And so the, the lesson comes from
me pitching projects for years.
I mean, I've probably pitched
a dozen TV shows and not a
single one has been picked up.
I just, this week I got a no, an official
no from a no that I assumed was coming
six months ago when I pitched the project.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537:
Yeah, that's too long.
Just a side note, asterisk.
If you're listening and you're
supposed to give feedback on a
pitch, six months is too late, so
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: Is too late.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537: Okay.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yes, please.
Please give feedback in in
a more natural timeframe.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537:
probably a note for me too.
People have probably sent
me projects I need to.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: Oh yeah.
I cleared my inbox this week with like
three from January that had sent me
scripts that I requested and I was
like, I'm so sorry my, I got behind.
But the idea that just because
I think it's a good idea
doesn't mean the market agrees.
And the goal is not to become
better at convincing people,
meaning better at pitching, better
materials, any of that stuff.
That's not really the issue.
The issue is there's a
misalignment between the demand
existing in the marketplace and
whatever it is you're supplying.
So.
I don't, I don't know.
I can get into more personal stories,
but that's kind of the learned experience
over the last few years of pitching
stuff actively is that it's, it's
not about how well you pitch, it's
about is there already an alignment
with the demand that they have.
I.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537:
So is there a, a solve for it?
I mean, I guess is there a summary solve.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: I think
so I, if you are a producer or a
writer or director, you probably
have multiple projects that
you're equally passionate about.
Most of us creative people have lots
of ideas in a folder or on our desk
or in a notebook or wherever it is.
And so rather than going
out and the fir like.
What happens to me is people just
cold pitch me ideas in dms or
emails, they find my email 'cause
it's online and they send a pitch.
And I've never met them.
I've never talked to them.
And I'm like, if you spent five
minutes on my website, you would
know that I'm not producing r-rated
horror, slasher filler thrillers.
Like that's just not an alignment with
the types of movies I'm gonna be doing.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537:
Why does it take so long?
Daren, why does it take
so long on your website?
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: Five minutes.
Okay.
30 seconds on my about page.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537: I.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: So I
think what we should do instead
is go out and ask questions.
If you meet an investor at a
networking event, tell me about the
last movie you saw that you loved.
They go, oh, it was this
really cool, blah, blah, blah.
You go, great.
I have one of those.
And that allows you, at least in the,
in the two minutes you've been talking
to, at least pitch something that
is in alignment with what they like.
Maybe it's not something they want to
invest in, but you at least know that it's
a type of genre that they, that they like.
And so asking questions, I
think is the solve for that.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537: Okay.
I like it.
Yeah, I think personal experience I
could share with that was kind of how
we got faith of angels off the ground.
I was pitching and pitching different
ideas to, living scriptures, and
which is, you know, they, they
do a lot of kind of faith-based
movies, a great, great distributor.
they kept saying, no, no, no.
And then finally I sat down with 'em.
I said, what do you want?
Like, what is the box?
What's the demand that you want?
And they gave me a couple of guidelines
that this is what we're looking for, these
types of stories, this type of budget.
This is our audience.
with that, was able to really parse
through a lot of the other ideas and
projects that I've been pitching.
And when one came across my desk
that was, here's a story of a boy
that's lost in an abandoned mine, I
thought, I think this could be one
that would fit within Faith Angels.
And when I summarized it and wrote it
up and spent my time writing a pitch
and sent it over to him, the response
was very positive, said, yes, that's it.
That's what we want.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah,
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537:
So yeah.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: I think
about your experience going to
NRB, and we talked about how you
put together a pitch page that had
four or five projects on there.
And so what you were able to do in
a very short period of time is go,
this is the kind of stuff I do.
If any of these resonate, we
should have a conversation.
It's a way to kind of.
Extrude the demand in the
marketplace and to say, look,
I'm gonna test the demand here.
You know, you're already in the right
building because it's NRB, national
Religious Broadcasters, right?
So you know that people are
aligned with faith-based and
the types of movies you make.
So you've already done the big
step, which is you're not at some
like Tony Robbins event trying
to find investors here at NRB.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: But then you
went and you said, here's what I do.
If any of this resonates,
let's have a conversation.
And then you had a lot of conversations
because the demand was already present.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah,
and I only met with people that I already
done the research on to say, look, this
is the type of, I'm not just showing up
with I ignorant to what they are looking
for and saying, here's what I do, saying,
oh, I get, I know what you're looking for.
I've seen your work or
your projects or whatever.
We have mutual.
and they've told me about you,
these are the things that I think
would align with your demand.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah.
Great.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537:
okay, great.
Daren.
So, okay, the next one we have the number
two, the market doesn't owe you a yes.
And that's what a what?
A what a good statement and a good lesson
to learn and is very humbling to do that.
But that is the hard truth, right?
That no one owes you funding
or distribution or attention.
already the market's oversaturated.
And so there's, yeah, you can come
up with a great script, a great idea,
and to just assume that, okay, because
here I am, the chosen one that's
been given this idea for this movie.
Everyone is gonna stop what they're
doing and work on my movie or
watch my movie or fund my movie.
That would be very presumptuous and,
and, and is not how things work.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah.
So the counterpoint to that, if, if
the market doesn't owe you a yes,
then you have to earn the yes and so.
You know, I, I sense your
next question coming.
How do you do that?
Well, I honestly think it comes down to
packaging, which is kind of a, a way to
create some leverage in a marketplace.
So I've been using this example,
I probably said it three or
four times in like consulting
calls over the last few weeks.
So imagine the exact same project.
So I have, I'm a producer, I found this
idea, I optioned the script, and it's
a thriller, like a business thriller.
I can shoot it for $2 million
and it's, it's gonna be great.
Will you invest in it?
It's like, well, okay, but you
haven't done business thrillers.
Nobody knows.
You as a producer of business
thrillers, you haven't had any success
in that genre or with that audience.
And so that's, that's a hard sell.
$2 million now.
Con contrast that to, I
have the exact same script.
I'm a producer.
I found this really great
thriller idea for a thriller.
I go and I partner with Aaron
Sorkin to write and direct the
movie and call my buddy Ryan Gosling
to be in the movie as the lead.
And we've, we've all worked this out
and we're like, guys, if we do this on
the cheap, if we do it for $2 million,
everybody just kind of comps their fee.
I'm gonna not take a fee Sorkin and.
And Gosling aren't gonna take a fee.
We're gonna do it for $2 million.
It's still gonna look amazing.
But how hard would it be to
go and get that thing funded?
Not hard at all.
People would be throwing $20 million
at you, and you'd have to work really
hard to say, no, no, no, no, no.
We really want to do it at this
lower budget for these reasons.
So it's not about the project and it's
not about your passion in the project.
It's about you earning
it by gaining leverage.
Through packaging, which
is like partnerships.
You're gonna package a talent, you're
gonna package a cinematographer, a
writer, a director, some cast, and
you're gonna go make partnerships
with brands that can do some sponsor
sponsorships, some sales agents, a
distributor, you know, people who can
help with the marketing of the movie.
Like if you bring that to the table,
it shows that you've done the work.
It's not just relying on the strength
of your idea and the the feeling of
entitlement, which is, well, I came up
with this and I put all that effort into
writing it so you guys do the next part.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537:
two questions.
One, can you, you don't have to
do it right now publicly, but can
you just email me Ryan's contact
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ryan Gosling at Gmail.
It's really easy, guys.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537:
what it's, is there
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537:
in that?
Okay.
I can't remember what my second question
is, but it brought, it brought the,
it brought a personal experience up
where wrote my, for my first feature,
my first theatrical feature, I wrote
the script and was so excited to
do it, and I started raising money.
I set.
Meetings up with people that
I had relationships with and
pitched to them the idea.
And the budget was set at $3 million.
a dear friend who I, he has become a dear
friend since, but I sat across from his
desk and he looked at me and listened
to the project and was very attentive.
this was my first feature film.
And he looks and says, who
is gonna give you $3 million?
It hurt.
It was like a punch in the gut.
I think.
Well, don't you, didn't you hear me?
Didn't you hear the idea?
It's great.
Like, and The realization is that
nobody owes me anything just because
it's some good idea or some script.
And so I went back and re reduced the
budget and went through and this perfect
project or perfect script, suddenly
its imperfections started to show.
And got it down to 125,000, which we then
made the movie, and it cer certainly well.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537:
Is that SRA approach.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: There you go.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537: But
the, but the, that was the realization
is like, yes, nobody that, that, the
true statement is nobody owes you
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah.
So if you really wanna test where you're
at with this go to a market like a FM or
can, and we did this in 2015, so 10 years
ago we, we raised a little bit of money.
To put together essentially a sizzle
or a teaser, like a five minute short
proof of concept for this project.
And I took it to a FM November, 2015, and
I did all the work of lining up meetings
and setting up, opportunities to chat
with sales agents and financiers and
distributors, and even producers There.
So I remember going to lunches.
I went to lunch with Cassie and Eliz.
I went to lunch with a couple of other
producers and I said, look, I'm not
necessarily looking for you to produce
this for me, like I want to produce this,
but how, like, how do I raise this money?
And their thing was like, look,
you're really passionate about it.
It's, it looks and sounds like a decent
project, but the way that you're.
Like the expectation that you would
produce, you and your partner would
write, your partner would direct,
and that there's no room to bring any
leverage into the project is the problem.
They're like you, you could actually
do this project at five or $7 million
and it would be easier if you had
a name director or some cast than
you guys trying to do it yourselves.
You haven't made a movie at
this budget before and expecting
that you're gonna do all of it.
So they're like, I can't even get
you 500 k, let alone 2 million.
It would be easier if you could let
me package a, you know, a different
writer, a different director, and we,
you know, I don't know if it was foolish
or not or if it was just earnest on our
part to say, well, no, we, the whole
point of this movie is for me to break
out as a producer and my b writing
partner to break out as a director.
And so we kind of stuck to our guns.
But what happened was we
never got the movie made.
So sticking to our guns is only good to
a point if it prevents you from getting.
The outcome you want that actually
isn't serving you in your career.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537: Okay.
So that's another point.
And I know this deviates from our five
bullet points or talking points, but.
The the thought that I would
have going back, looking back
and saying, look, do we make this
movie for $2 million or whatever?
Are there interest parties is, I
think one of the things that we often
do as independent filmmakers is we
overestimate the value of our idea
or the preciousness of the product.
And and we don't anticipate
that this will be one of
Movies that we hope to make
and and are involved to make.
So yes, in that situation similar
situation of trying to find leverage,
would 100% allow people, if there's
interest and somebody saying, well,
I'm interested in helping you get
this made, but we're gonna attach a
director, boom, great, let's do that.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537:
until you're literally on set,
I mean, as long as you hold the.
The, the pen to the contract, to the idea
or whatever it is, are credited accurately
for that, then I think you move forward
until it is completely Yeah, until,
until you've created that
leverage for yourself.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah, if, if
I have a regret for the nine years that I
spent as a co-owner of a video production
company trying to make feature films,
it's that I didn't say yes to the, what
we were, what we had available to us.
'cause we, I.
Maybe this is skipping forward to our
number four on the list, but that's okay.
Let's make that number three.
But this idea of like if you
have an opportunity to make
something, go make something.
'cause we did not make anything except
for some short films and some YouTube
videos over a nine year period.
And there's not a lot to show
for it other than I got a lot
of experience as a producer from
doing a lot of commercial work.
So I understood budgets and putting
crews together and scheduling and
all the skills I needed to then
jump over and be a line producer.
But man, we didn't have anything to show
for those nine years, and that's a, a
huge regret that I have because year one
we could have probably gone and raised.
30 or $50,000 from family and friends
made something a full length feature,
and then made the next thing and
the next thing and the next thing.
And so the, the number three thing on
our list is kind of to build backwards
from the constraints that you have.
If you can't raise 500 K or a
million, well what can you raise?
Can you get 10,000 or 50,000
or a hundred thousand?
Well then let that be your
creative constraint that.
Create something new and
something interesting.
And that's where people
really, you know, get involved.
Because you look at some of these
legendary films like Primer or
Clerks or Blair Witch Project, or
Paranormal Activity, or In Pelly
did like eight jobs on that movie.
Wrote directed, executive produced,
shot the thing, like he did it all.
And that was the constraint he had.
And the thing made 250
million in theaters, right?
So.
Yes, it's an outlier in the box
office success, but it's not an
outlier in this principle of well
work with the constraints that you
have and you can actually make stuff.
And when you make stuff that gives
you the momentum to get the next thing
and the next thing and the next thing,
sitting there hands crossed going, well,
I want $2 million for this movie and
I'm, I'm not gonna accept a dollar less.
You're gonna end up like me,
where it took me 12 years to
produce my first feature film.
12 years is too dang long.
It could have been two years if I had
built backwards from the constraints,
if I looked at what resources I had
and just decided to make something I.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah,
no, I think it's a valuable lesson.
I think you can also find leverage
in other things and say, you know.
Yes, we can lower the budget or
whatever, or what is the valuable asset.
We might not have Ryan gosling.com
or, or you know, the
committed to our project.
But you know, I have for my first
feature didn't go to theaters.
It was my first feature about Scout Camp.
The leverage I had was a relationship
with a a, a working scout camp.
I could say, look, let's do a story where,
you know, the location is essentially
primary character this may cost somebody
else a significant amount, but I feel
like with the two relationships or, or
contacts, I can have this leverage for my
project and it will enable me to be able
to make this I don't know if that's too
far of a tangent from that talking point.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537:
No, I think it's perfect.
It reminds me of Rebel Without a
Crew, which is Robert Rodriguez's
book about making El Mariachi.
That was a movie he made for $7,000
with a friend, a guitar, some
borrowed locations, borrowed costumes.
I re, I think they found a turtle on
the side of the road one day and they
decided to turn that into a shot.
In the movie, you're just like.
He made it and look where, look where he
is at now and what he's done in his career
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537:
he applied this principle.
Like he just made something with the
constraints that he had available
and the people who have that ability
to make something and have progress
and make, and get some momentum,
that's, those are the people that have
a trajectory that goes up into the
right, the people that sit and wait.
For the, for, for the perfect.
Yes.
It's like again, biggest regret.
It took me 12 years to
produce the first movie.
It could have taken, I could
have done it that weekend.
Like the, the weekend
we started our company.
I could've been, let's go make something.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah,
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537:
know how to produce it.
You don't know how to direct
it, but let's figure it out.
And we could've gone and done it, and
then we would've had that momentum
and it would've carried us forward.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537:
yeah, do it on the low budge and.
Grow from there.
Okay.
So the next talking point is
that ideas don't attract money.
Execution does.
And I mean, you've seg it, it segues
perfectly from what you just said, right?
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537:
I love this little summary.
It says, stop pitching what?
And start demonstrating how, you
know, rather than, Hey, here's an
idea I've got, or Here's this is it.
You know, here's this story
element that we have about.
it is, certain character
in certain location goes
through a certain experience.
say, you know, I, I've raised
money successfully on this August.
I'm traveling to X location to tell
the story, and we've cast, or we're
going to cast, or we've met with
this and there's momentum happening.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537: If
by July 1st we don't have this resource,
then we'll move on to a different person.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537: is
that something you're interested in?
and it's more of a how, how we're
doing this rather than here's,
here's what we're excited about.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah.
I got a, a buddy, I'll, I'll say
buddy, I consider him a buddy, but
Derek s Siver is a person that I
have, you know, followed his writing
and his trajectory of his career for
my whole career, and he has this.
It's now a chapter of a book, but he
wrote it as a blog post about how ideas
are just a multiplier of execution.
And so his, what he says in his post
is that a brilliant idea without
any execution or poorly executed
is worth $20 and a decent idea.
So, not a brilliant idea,
but just a decent idea.
Executed brilliantly can
be, can raise 2 million.
And so I literally got this
question this morning on LinkedIn.
I put a post up and someone asked
a question in the comments and
literally posted their idea.
I was like, this is amazing.
I can use this in the podcast later today.
And so she basically said
like, here's my idea.
Here's all the, the people
that are circling it.
I've got some commitments and I have
access to actors and blah, blah, blah.
I was like, great, well why
has no one given you money yet?
And my answer, you know, to her was like,
it's because you haven't done anything.
Like you have an idea and you
expect everything else to show up.
You need to take the the
responsibility and go.
Okay, I'm gonna attach this person.
Instead of saying, I could, I have
an avenue to talk to this person.
Go talk to 'em now.
Don't wait for the money.
Like go talk to the money and the, and the
people and the producers and the locations
and the distributors all at the same time.
And that's how you get your momentum.
You have to show the execution,
not just, I have this really great
idea because what it feels like
then, as from the producer side is.
I want you to do everything for me.
It's like, well, no, my execution
is worth more than your idea.
And so that's not a fair trade.
It's not a good pitch.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537:
Yeah, after we did our sarata, we
put in theaters and it did well.
It recouped very, very
quickly in theaters.
There was enough momentum that my next
movie, I did one called Freetown Letter.
We wanted to shoot in Africa,
I announced it very early,
said This is my next project.
I immediately reached, I actually reached
back out to the producer friend who
said, who's gonna give you $3 million?
said, Hey, you know, Sara
Todd is doing all right.
Would you like to be a part of this one?
And he said, the first thing we needed
to do is get on a plane and go to
Africa and start a location scouting.
This was before we had raised the money.
I think we'd been given a little
bit of development money, but he has
that concept down of start executing.
Like the idea is there, but the execution
is what people are gonna invest in.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah.
Well, and you bring up an
idea that's interesting.
I, I think producers and really
filmmakers, if you're a director
or a writer, like having
your own development fund, I.
Gives you the ability to create some
leverage, create some momentum, right?
If you, one version of that is
you're gonna write the script
on your own, on spec, right?
So you don't, it doesn't require any money
or expense, but you can take the time,
which is a form of capital and say, I'm
gonna invest my time into this script.
And if you're telling people about it,
I got this idea, I've got good feedback
on it, I'm gonna turn into the script.
Follow along, you know, get on my
email list or follow me on social
media so you can see updates and stuff.
You're showing the momentum
that the project has.
Well, if you, at the same time
are having conversations with
producers and actors and doing a
table read and getting feedback, all
of that momentum starts to build.
But I'm thinking as a producer.
You know, I've benefited in the
past from having a little stockpile
of money to say, I wanna hire a
writer to create a treatment for
this story that I, that I found.
Right.
I, I remember a, an example of finding
a, a is a western that was written
by a guy named Brett Hart, the 1840s.
So it's public domain.
They, there's a version of
the movie that was made in the
sixties, but it's not very good.
And so I hired a writer and
said, can you, can you do this?
We've got 2,500 bucks.
Can you do a treatment for me?
And she wrote an amazing 15 page
treatment, which was an adaptation of
the story, very true to the story, but
with modern elements at least modern.
I.
Principles and ideas that were
integrated so cleanly into it.
I was just like, this is amazing.
I wouldn't have been able to do
that if I needed to go raise $2,500
from an investor to pay for a rider.
So there's some benefit there to, you
know, have a have a five or $10,000 thing.
I know that maybe sounds to
some people like impossible.
I can't even raise $500, let alone that.
But if you're doing this, if you've
been at it for a while and you want
to create some momentum and leverage.
Have a little stockpile of money for
development and then you own the projects.
'cause you develop them.
And if you are actively talking about
the things that you're working on,
then that's gonna attract people
who are also interested in that.
'cause the thing is, investors and
crew people and distributors, they're
attracted to and drawn to this momentum.
Like if it's a moving train, they
have that feel, that tension, that
pull of like, I better get on that.
That one's leaving the station.
These other.
10 trains over here are just parked.
There's no conductor.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537: ideas.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: anywhere.
Those are ideas.
This one even if the train is a little
rickety and maybe isn't the, the most
glorious ride that they're expecting
in their entire career, it's moving.
I want to get on that because at
least I'm gonna get somewhere.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah.
Yeah.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: All right.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537: agree.
I agree, Daren.
Okay.
Our fifth, our
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537:
We have one more.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537:
is that you.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: I like it.
Yeah.
Okay.
This is a great reframe that
I think is required for.
If you, you have to be resilient
and resourceful and have a
lot of faith in this industry.
Someone asked me the other
day too, like, can you talk?
It was on a live call and I, I, one of
the members of the community I'm putting
together basically said, you know, tell me
about how faith applies in this industry.
I was like, oh, it's in everything you do.
And so this reframe has really helped.
It's that you're not failing,
you're still in development.
Okay.
That's a big reframe because
we can take every no as either
a rejection or a lesson.
We can, we can take it as, oh, I failed.
I'm not good enough.
This was never gonna happen.
Why isn't it happening for me?
It's so frustrating.
Or we can say, that's information
that I didn't have before.
Oh, you know, I, I did a whole week where
I talked to five different law firms.
Because I was like, oh, they, they
work with producers and investors
and they put deals together.
I wonder if they have access that
I don't have put deals together.
I won these lawyers.
It became very clear that they don't help.
Great.
I have three more of
these, but instead of taking
it as a defeat or a a failure
that I was barking up the wrong
tree, I just decided to learn.
So I was like, Hey, great.
I know that you guys can't
help with fundraising, but.
Here's what I'm working on.
What advice do you have for me?
And I learned a lot in
those five conversations.
So the part that a lot of people
leave out is that these overnight
success stories that you hear all
the time of a movie getting funded
or a deal coming together, or someone
getting a big role, they leave
out the decade of refinement and.
You know, learning and
reworking and repositioning
and just constantly improving.
And you know, that's why I vocally
talk about how it took 12 years to do
my first movie because I want people
to realize I'm not special here.
Like, just 'cause I'm raising a fund, just
'cause I produced your last two movies.
I, it's not because.
Out of nowhere I became a good producer.
It took 12 years, guys, like
it took a long freaking time.
And so if you can look at your current
project as training round, what can I
learn from this experience along the
way until the yes comes, whether it's
on this project or a different one?
It's not failure, it's
learning it's lessons.
And so that is a big reframe that's
gonna help people to keep moving and
keep progressing and keep the faith.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537:
I, I love that.
And it's almost as if you know it,
and I think that that applies to.
Throughout anybody's career, you know,
to say, look, you know, Christopher Nolan
when he's making tenant, you know, of a
inception was in develop was, you know,
influenced or could be applied to what he
then did for Tenet or something like that.
You know, any, any filmmaker is gonna
say, yes I've, I've learned from my
previous films and I'm going to do things.
Differently, or each film is gonna benefit
from what I've learned in the past.
So even on a microcosm scale as far
as raising money or pitching the idea,
well, I've learned from these other
pitches that resulted in this way.
So now what can I do to continue those
results or pivot and change those results?
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537:
That, that's a complicated way of saying
probably what we already all know.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah, well,
you know, there's a lot of things I
know and have known for 20 years, and
I still have to be reminded of them.
And sometimes it's on the seventh
or 10th time that I go, oh.
Oh, I've known this for a long time,
but I haven't done anything about it.
Now, I, that knowledge is gonna
turn to wisdom because I'm
actually putting it into practice.
So, you know, reading all the books,
listening to all the podcasts, doing
all that stuff, yeah, it's important
to learn, but you, you don't master
your craft by listening to podcasts.
You do it by doing it.
And so that's another, maybe that's a
bonus, but like that's a big part of
this creative space that we operate in
is that you, you know, for a long time
I thought if I just read the next book
or talked to the right person, that it
would unlock everything in my career.
And it, the only thing that got me the
next project was the current project
and talking about it and learning
from it and being vocal about it.
And so.
That's a big part.
Maybe that's, that's an other idea.
An an additional idea is just if you do
it all in silence in your, in your room,
you're writing the script and you're
bemoaning the fact that no one knows
about you and no one has said yes to you.
Well, what if you, what if you
got a little more public about it?
What if you shared photos from set?
What if you shared.
Your, your chapters or your pages
on Wattpad or online on Medium or on
your blog or whatever it might be.
You know, my personal experience
here is I've, the last two books
I've written, I wrote them in public.
What does that mean?
Well, there's this idea called Building
in Public that's very common in like SaaS
or tech or startups where individual.
Coders, developers, entrepreneurs
are building in public.
They're basically creating their
company or their app or their thing.
In public, online, they're sharing
everyday updates about the thing.
It's like, well, I think you could
apply that to film, and I think
you could apply that to writing.
So I took the challenge and I said,
I'm gonna write my next book in public.
I'm gonna publish each
chapter as a blog post.
It's the first draft, but I'm
gonna use that as a vehicle to
grow an audience and get awareness.
And when the book comes out, I
won't have 20 people to tell.
I'll have 2000 people to tell.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: worked.
I went from like 500 people on
my email list to over 2000 in
about a six, eight month period.
Well, it was probably a year period.
And when I released the book,
I sold a hundred copies the
first week, which was amazing.
I wouldn't have been able to do
that with an audience of 500 people.
And so.
Building in public.
I've, I've shared this
story too many times.
Like the way that you and I started
working together is, 'cause I was
posting pictures from set from a
different movie every single day.
And when you called me, we'd
never worked together before.
Your first words were, Hey, you've
been doing a lot of producing lately.
I said, yes, I have.
That's what happens when you get
public about it, is opportunities
start coming to you because again.
People like momentum.
They like being involved with people
and projects that have momentum.
So you can create that.
You can even manufacture that by being
public about what you're working on.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah,
no, I love that idea and it makes me
think, you know, okay, if I'm in this.
stage right now.
I've got several pitches, you know,
how much do I need to be sharing
those projects are and, and, getting
those pitch decks out there in a way
that more people can look at them.
Certainly therefore, an intended
audience, an intended, you know,
curious to invest audience.
But in order to find those
individuals, I, I need to get
the word out there to do that.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah, well
here's, here's me teeing up and teasing
pot potential, a potential future episode.
I wonder if you and I both pitch what
we're currently pitching on the podcast.
So I pitch you the fund, you pitch me
one or two of your projects so people
can see how we're pitching stuff.
That's pretty vulnerable to put that
stuff out there, but I think that might
be a cool way for people to, to learn,
you know, off of our experience of
having pitching stuff for 10 years plus.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah.
Oh, I love it.
I love it.
No guarantees.
Listener.
You're gonna have to keep listening
for a while and see, but that's fun.
Hey, I'll as, as we wrap up, I want
to share just a cool experience.
Which is kind of good reminder for
me of why we're all doing this.
So this, Africa documentary kind of
still going on, but I left early for,
for, health issues order to get home.
I had a layover, a one day layover
in where I filmed 15 11 years ago,
a feature film called Freetown.
I thought, I, I, when I made the.
The arrangements.
I thought, oh, okay, I'm just gonna
kind of hole up in a hotel and get
some editing and emails done and, and
you know, just in and out in the day.
And, and, and then I
thought, no, wait a second.
I made a movie here.
I've got film family here.
I need to reach out.
So I put the, you know,
resurrected the old WhatsApp
conversations from 11 years ago.
Said, Hey, I'm in town.
I got a day stop by the
hotel if you wanna see that.
And it was just so thrilling
throughout the day.
I had, you know, different cast and
crew that made an effort to come out,
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: Wow.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537: in,
we chatted, you know, 15, 20 minute
visits and just got up to date on, you
know, their wellbeing and their families.
And it was great, great to
recontact, re reconnect with them.
And I think that, you know, as a, as
an first time independent filmmaker.
We always say there's a default answer
of I wanna make movies that, that,
you know, change people's lives.
I wanna make movies that
impact people, right?
You, you remember sitting in a movie
theater and watching a movie and
going, being impacted by that and say,
oh, I wanna make that type of movie.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: Yeah.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537:
audiences watch it,
they're impacted by it.
And I think important to remember
and realize that as independent
filmmakers, impact starts with you.
It starts with that initial idea.
It starts on set.
And the person whose has to
be impacted first is your own.
And that was a powerful reminder
that yes, movies can change
people's lives, including your own.
So let them do that.
And so I was grateful for that day
in, in Ghana to remember that lesson.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: Awesome.
That's an inspiring lesson that I think
is a great way to wrap up the episode.
I'd love to know for the audience,
if you're listening which one of
these today was kind of the most
eye-opening or impactful for you?
Let us know in the comments or leave
a review or come find us online.
I'm on LinkedIn.
You're, I don't, where do you
spend most of your online time?
Are you online at all?
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537:
Just Ryan dot gosling gmail.
Send it, send.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537:
Ryan Gosling at gmail com.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537: No.
Yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't, I
don't have a big online presence.
LinkedIn is fine.
daren_2_06-05-2025_111537: Oh man.
But yeah, let us know which
one was most impactful.
If you would consider sharing this episode
with someone you think would benefit
from it, that helps the audience grow
and helps us reach and help more people.
So thanks for listening.
Thanks for sharing, Garrett.
We'll see you next week.
garrett-batty_2_06-05-2025_111537:
Great chat.
Thanks, Daren.
Thank you for listening to this
episode of Truly Independent.
To join us on the journey,
be notified of and ask us
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Head over to 3coinpro.
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Thanks for listening.
And we'll see you next week.
Our intro and outro music is
election time by Kjartan Abel.
