S2 EP33 | Is AI taking over film?
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
AI generating shows in real
time Based on user prompts.
This is Truly Independent, a show that
demystifies the indie film journey by
documenting the process of releasing
independent films in theaters.
Each week, Garrett Batty and I,
Darren Smith, will update you
on our journey, bringing guests
to share their insights into the
process and answer your questions.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Garrett.
Hey man.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
Hey Daren, how are you?
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
You're hiding the shirt.
You gotta, you gotta open that
up and make it full force.
Boom.
faith of angels.
How many placements can we get?
I got faith of angels back here.
You got it.
back there.
you got it on your shirt.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: It's
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: just,
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
never do too much to market your movie.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
we're just incepting the
audience every week on YouTube.
Go watch our movies.
I love it.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
We're obviously talking about
Faith of Angels, the movie that I
produced with Daren, last year and
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yeah,
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
and we love that people are watching
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
Do you realize that it's been two
years since we produced that movie,
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: Oh
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: now
that it's August of 2025 and we filmed
that what, September, October of 2023.
So it's crazy that it's
been that long ago.
if you told me that we were on set
six months ago, I'd be like, yeah,
That sounds right.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
I believe it.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Nope.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: Well,
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
Two years.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: I
get the email alerts every morning of,
that have sold and people that have
streamed, and, I'm very grateful that
people continue to watch and support
and, reach out because of that movie.
So thank you.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yeah.
We have a fun topic today.
this is something that I posted about on.
LinkedIn, there was this cool,
announcement, maybe not cool
depending on what you think.
this is gonna be our main topic today.
the headline is Amazon's Alexa
Fund invests in the quote unquote
Netflix of AI startup fable.
Which launches showrunner a
tool for user directed TV shows,
bu Garrett, I shared this with you.
Let's talk about what this is and what
it means for indie filmmakers today.
How's that sound?
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: That
sounds like a great topic and probably
something we all need to address and,
come to terms with and say, what does this
mean for me as an independent filmmaker?
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
yeah, it can be a scary topic
or one that's very exciting and
encouraging or a little bit of both.
hopefully we can talk about our opinions.
Daren, I haven't researched it, I don't
know much about what it is, My disclaimer
is that you're gonna get my opinion on
this in its current state, the biggest
fear is that this will age poorly and
in, three months from now we're all
using AI and, what I say is totally
irrelevant or makes me look foolish.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
Okay, well why don't we start
with what this thing is.
Fable is the company and
showrunner is the app.
essentially what it is, imagine
if, we'll put a link to this in
the show notes, but the screenshot,
courtesy of Fable looks like a.
Typical streaming platform
with shows that you can, scroll
across in different categories.
there's a most viewed episodes
trending today and trending shows.
essentially you can put in a prompt.
And tell the app what
you would like to watch.
I've been talking about this for
a year on shows where I think
this is coming, we see it now.
one thing to note is that pretty
much everything, there's one that
I can see on the screenshot, two
on the screenshot out of like 15
projects that look like live action.
The rest are animated.
what this is, is AI generating shows
in real time Based on user prompts.
if it's sucky today, it's as
bad as it's ever gonna be.
It's only gonna get better and
better in addition to streaming,
we're now gonna have AI directed.
TV shows competing for people's time and
attention adding to the noise of content
that is currently happening every single
day across social media, YouTube, Netflix,
streamers TV shows and movie theaters.
That doesn't mean everything is
noise, it just means that it's
gonna be harder to find the signal.
Because there's so much content
being produced this is just
gonna exponentially, add to that.
people are gonna be able
to hop on a platform.
And put in a prompt and they can
even, one interesting thing is they
can even remix stuff that's already
been generated by other users.
So if you come up with a show and
other people want to take that
show and create a new episode, you
would make some money off of that.
in theory.
So here's this new thing
that's coming, Garrett.
how does it make you feel
as a indie filmmaker?
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
Based on your description I think
the best word you've used is noise.
As an indie filmmaker, that has always
been the challenge cutting through
the noise or, theatrical competition.
it may be a second verse, a little bit
stronger, a little bit worse, but the
routine is still the same we get up.
implement the tool into what
we're creating or continue to give
our audience what they've, grown
accustomed to expecting from us.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yeah.
I'd love to take a three prong
approach to this discussion today.
I think it's probably a Tony Robbins
thing but in any moment You have
three choices What do you focus on?
What does it mean, and what
are you gonna do about it?
So maybe we take that as our
structure over the next, 10,
15 minutes starting with.
What are you gonna focus on?
I shared, a post on LinkedIn about
this very article, the variety
article that announced this
investment in this tool had been made.
And it was really interesting.
Some people just completely wrote it off.
Some people, thought it was
the end of everything and
most people were in between.
So if step one, what
should we focus on here?
we don't want to be prescriptive,
but if you share what you're focusing
on, and I share what I'm focusing on.
That gives people points of
reference a few weeks ago it was
Google VO three that was like.
Look at the output from this
generative AI tool that's doing
eight second video clips and they're
hard to distinguish from reality.
And it's like, okay, well
what are you gonna focus on?
Are you gonna focus on, this
is the end of my career.
Are you gonna focus on, this is a cool
tool and I want to, test it out and see
if I can use it and benefit from it.
So I think my answer is it's more, broad.
It's the fact that you can
choose what to focus on.
And another thing Tony Bins says is
what you focus on is what you feel.
And so if you're reading the news like
this every day and feeling really crappy
and demotivated to show up and work on
the next page of your screenplay, or go to
set, or to try and pitch the next project.
Then maybe you should
stop watching the news.
one of our favorite lines
from Faith of Angels.
Well, the news makes me sad.
It's like, well then turn it off.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yeah.
I didn't know that Amazon had made
this investment until you sent me the
article, I'm sure it's gonna be great.
this morning I put in, so We have
this sump pump in the basement.
and I spent the weekend, replacing
and troubleshooting this sump pump.
this leans to your analogy of, Hey,
this is as bad as it's going to be.
It's only going to get better from here.
I finally went to, our friends
over at Chad GPT and said,
okay, here's my situation.
I had the sump pump and it keeps
on flooding and for some reason
the sump pump keeps failing.
I described the entire situation and
it came back with a great, method
of troubleshooting what to do.
okay.
This is amazing.
Thank you so much.
can you give a diagram what this is?
The diagram, we'll have to
somehow post this or something.
The diagram that it sent
was, comical in its mistakes
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
Yeah, useless.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
not a plumber,
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
telling, it had labeled everything
wrong and, misspelled all the words.
it was very, entry level
stuff, that even I could see.
maybe that's not the problem.
we're not being replaced yet, and
at the end of the day, I'm the one
that gets to go to Home Depot and buy
all the materials and do the work.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: I.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
I love that.
the thing that I.
have been personally focusing on the
most is what we've talked about this
whole season of like development stuff
is how important it's to start building
relationships with an audience of people.
Because if you're just one of a million,
options on a Netflix type platform you're
lost in a sea of AI generated noise.
it's really hard to find and connect
with an audience if you're just
relying on a platform to do it for you.
And so what will happen though is if
you really forge a relationship with an
audience and they care about the type
of stuff that you make, the stories
you're gonna tell, the way that you
tell them, your type of filmmaking,
then those people will show up.
If you have a way to
tell 'em about it, right?
forming and building that
audience is essential.
with news like this, when it
pops up, it's like, oh, okay,
there's gonna be even more noise.
How am I gonna get my signal
to connect with the people?
it might be an email list, it
might be, I hope it's not, just a
Facebook page or an Instagram page.
'cause those things could
go away in any moment.
I hope you have a direct connection
to your audience to be able
to say, here's my next thing.
I hope you come and see it.
Here's a way to get tickets,
or, stream it, or watch it.
So I think that's what
I've been focusing on
It reinforces the importance of connecting
with and building that audience.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yeah.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Okay.
So what do you focus on as number one?
What does it mean?
It's similar but different,
and it's the next part of it.
Right?
So you're focusing on something.
What does it mean?
this may be a shorter segment,
but what does it mean for you?
You've maybe touched on this a little
bit, but if this is just more noise, what
does that mean for you as a filmmaker?
what does it mean?
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: I think
for an independent filmmaker, for me, I
read the article like, oh, that's great.
I got a million things I need to do
today, including follow up on the
phone calls that I've made and raise
the funds that I've been raising.
I've got a trip to Atlanta coming up
this week to do a, scout and research,
kind of a writing research trip.
what a fascinating article
and good luck to them.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yeah.
What it means for me is it's in
addition to, I don't see these
types of things like the AI tools or
the new platforms as replacements.
I don't see them as, oh, this is the
end of cinema, or streaming, or tv,
It's just in addition to, so we started
out with radio, and then we got.
Movies and then color movies and movies
with sound all these things just became
in addition to, we still have radio today.
We still have TV today.
We still have movies today.
And now we also have YouTube,
social media, and streaming.
Now we have AI generated content
and I can't imagine that it
will be anywhere near as good
as the same looking type show.
I can look at this screenshot.
And this one looks like
a family guy knockoff.
And this one looks like a
Rick and Morty knockoff.
And this one looks like a
Disney channel knockoff.
Like none of it's original.
And my goodness, the, the, the.
Industry for the last a hundred, 120 years
has gotten really good at identifying,
who's great at telling stories.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yeah.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: you
guess who's not on this platform?
Ryan Johnson.
Edgar Wright.
Christopher Nolan, Greta Gerwig.
Eva Duate.
None of them are on this platform.
You don't get those stories.
You get whatever this gen AI can
cobble together based on what
it has access to for its LLM.
That's what you're gonna get.
It's gonna be regurgitated slop that looks
like something that you asked it for.
Some people will be
very interested in that.
Some people will be very good at
prompting and they'll get really cool
shows that speak to them and no one else.
And a lot of people will probably
waste a lot of time on it.
It's not gonna be better than
anything that you get on a network
because the entire infrastructure
is built around surfacing and
investing in the best possible things.
So you're basically voting with
your time and attention that
I want something less good.
Then what I can get for
essentially free on Netflix or
streaming or TV or in theaters.
So that's what it means for me.
It's in addition to, it's gonna be less
good and I'm not really that interested
I'll probably play around with it just
to see where it's at and then I'll
go, well, that was a waste of time.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: Well, I
think the case could be made, you know, if
you're saying, Hey, we had radio and then
black, white film and everything, the case
could certainly be made and say, aren't
listening to the radio like they used
to Or back when there wasn't streaming.
TV shows we're getting 15, 20 million,
viewers tuning in, you know, and
there's three channels, 55 million
people are watching NBC only.
could say that.
And, and so we are seeing maybe
this audience segmentation and
all, okay, now we're dividing
and now there's now hundreds of
channels and the same size audience.
Therefore we're, filtering that
audience out or splitting that
audience between all those channels.
But I think to your point.
cream will rise to the top and you
say, Hey, there's these amazing
storytellers that understand
what an audience is looking for
that have built their audience.
And you know, what if, portion
of their audience goes to, exit
Valley or whatever this tv,
self-generated title is, that's okay.
it'll only motivate the Christopher Nolans
and, Greta Wigs to continue to tell better
stories and improve what they're doing.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yeah.
Meanwhile, Christopher Nolan this summer
announced Odys the Odyssey coming out a
year from now, and in the announcement
week, they sold out IMAX theaters that
had already pre-booked the time slots
that's possible because people really
need that in their life and to the point
where they're going to invest $20, $25
today in something that they're not even
gonna see until a year from now based
off of a name, a couple of actors that
are in it and five shots from the movie.
that's the flip side.
it makes the really good
stuff more valuable.
That's exciting.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
That is exciting.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
Okay, so the third,
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
I need to go get tickets right now.
I'll be right back.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
They don't have any at the
local imax, which is weird.
So I'm like, come on,
Megaplex, get with the program.
so we talked about what are
we focusing on with this?
What does it mean?
So what are we gonna do
about it as that third step?
And that to me is the most interesting.
What are you gonna double down on?
What's gonna be the moat that
sets you apart from the slop?
And within that same, answer.
I also think that there will
definitely be people who make
six, maybe even seven figures.
On this platform generating shows
and letting other people create
scenes or episodes and making, 40
cents a pop or whatever there's
gonna be people that do that.
So the question is, if that's how
you wanna make your money in film.
You better get really good at it
now and be investing in the platform
and talking to them and seeing
about how do I, get early access
to things and become a top creator
on this platform and go that route.
but for those of us that don't want to go
that way, myself included, I'm doubling
down on story and real human emotion
and unique stuff that only I can do.
Where I've got some leverage in the
project and I've got a way to get to
an audience for free or cheap, and
those are the things I'm looking at.
So marketing and innovation on
the story front, I don't think I'm
gonna be an innovator when it comes
to the platform or the production,
method or anything like that.
It's gonna be pretty straightforward
but I can innovate on story.
there's always opportunity
to innovate there.
What about you?
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
I agree.
I don't have any counterpoint to that.
I'll do the same and remind
me what are we addressing?
The third?
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
What are you gonna do about it?
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yeah.
I think I've already stated that I'm
gonna get on an airplane, Wednesday and
head to Atlanta and story research and
location scouting for my next feature.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Awesome.
Well, very cool.
the emotional right now is like,
okay, cool, It doesn't impact me.
I'm just gonna keep doing what I'm doing.
So there's our summary for that.
Just gonna keep doing what we're doing.
So that's a nice transition into,
what are we doing right now?
Garrett, what are you up to?
you kind of hinted at a
project, so what's up?
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: we
discussed this a little bit earlier
saying, look, it's time that we
wrap up season two of pitching and
fundraising, which is exciting for me
'cause that means that our next step
is development and pre-production.
I will be getting into development and
pre-production of, my next feature.
It's, current working title
is called Where the Dog Heals.
It's a true story.
faith-based film, about an
incredible, miracle that occurred
in, somebody's hunting dog.
it brought the dog's owner and many
people in this community closer to Christ.
And so we'll be telling that story and
it occurred to me, You know, we recording
this August, you know, and if our goal is,
hey, we're gonna shoot this year, that's.
only way that can happen is, is a miracle,
but it's looking, very positive that
things are moving in that direction.
for future episodes, we'll probably
announce or go over this in season
three episode, one what we're going
to do how this movie is being funded
and written we'll do a week by week.
Process on the pre-production,
of where the dog heals.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Amazing.
That sounds very cool.
I've seen the pitch deck, I've know
a little bit about the project.
It feels right up your alley.
And our friend Steven.
Who was our last guest in season one
recently shared a post about, if you
put a dog in your movie, that really
helps with connecting with audiences.
So good on you for being ahead of the
curve on that and putting a dog in your,
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
we'll be iterating the
format that's already proven.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
there you go.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
but we'll do it in a way
that has our unique voice,
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
I love it.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
very excited about.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
how about You, you are also
working on some things.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yeah.
Well, at the risk of like, I typically
don't like talking about projects
until they're a hundred percent
solid, But basically where we're at
is, you know, the last text thread.
Love the discussion.
Feeling good about working on this
proof of concept piece with you guys.
So discussing next steps.
So that's basically we're
moving forward with this.
I took a meeting with a
director friend, that we share.
I can't talk too much about the
project because I'm not supposed
to, but I can talk in generalities
of what we're doing here.
So I got called by a director friend and
said, Hey, I've got this project talking
with these guys, about a proof of concept.
the term torch is becoming mainstream
because Angel Studios has this
thing called a torch where you can
submit 5, 8, 10 minutes of your.
project as a proof of concept or
a scene from a thing that you've
made, and put it in front of their
guild to trigger the voting process.
if they like it, they'll produce or
distribute it or whatever it looks like.
And so they, we went in and talked
about what's the right path here?
Should we go straight to fundraising?
Should we do a proof of concept?
what would that benefit us?
What are the upsides, downsides,
costs, all those things.
So that was the first meeting we
had about two, three weeks ago.
and we all reconnected a day or
two ago like, oh, hey, we should
probably catch up 'cause we wanna
move forward with this thing.
So we're meeting again in two weeks,
Probably a low, six figure proof of
concept project that I will be producing
along with this director friend.
and who knows, we may need to go overseas
because we need a volume, I don't know
if there are volumes in the us I haven't
done the research yet 'cause I haven't
been paid to do the research yet.
But essentially it's
a nice little project.
It'll probably be a
three to five day shoot.
and it'll be a fun proof of concept
and who knows where it goes from there.
They already have a lot of
investor interests though.
And so my, what I shared with them was
your example of how you did a proof
of concept, for the carpenter, and
that convinced and helped the investor
You know, the full feature.
And so that's what we're looking
for let's put some money into this.
be strategic about it and maybe
even shoot some stuff that
could be used in the feature.
if we're getting some B roll skies or
some, you know, some sunrises, sunsets,
or you know, those kind of things.
like let's just shoot the heck out of it
while we're there and come back with some
great stuff that could be used later on.
But ultimately it's a proof of concept
to show this is what it'll look
like, this is what it'll feel like.
This is what we're trying to
make, and getting people really
excited to fund the full thing.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
Man, that's exciting.
Congratulations, and based on what you've
told me, sounds like an amazing team and,
a great project to be associated with.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
Yeah, it will be an amazing team.
'cause you know, the director and I
will get to build that team together.
So I'm excited for that part.
it's been, since 2023, since I was on set
for something I was producing, so that's
too long, but I'm really grateful that we
had the experience last year to put the
movies in theaters and be a part of that.
this year has been all about
raising the fund, which is making
progress we're looking to have
that raised by the end of the year.
And so this is a nice little like.
I'll use Pallet cleanser again of like,
okay, let me get out of fundraising mode
for a couple weeks and put this together.
Show people that I'm
still producing stuff.
I haven't left the industry.
hopefully that'll build some
momentum for the fund as well to be
like, yeah, this guy's doing stuff.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
Oh, very cool.
Well, the, chosen set out
in Texas has a volume,
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Oh, nice.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
happy to connect you with, if you
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
Is that Capernaum Studios?
Is that.
what they call?
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
Yeah, yeah.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Okay.
Look at that research
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
Impressive.
Facility and great people to work with,
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Awesome.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: which
is where we filmed the carpenter, sizzle.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: it'll
probably be a couple of sets and a
volume and we'll take it from there.
We'll see how it goes.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yeah.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: I don't
even know what the script looks like yet.
I just know what the project is
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
Oh, good.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: first
to get to, writing a five to 10 page.
and then saying, all right, how
are we gonna shoot this stuff?
So we'll be able to talk about a lot of
it, I'm sure, which is very exciting.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
Well, I look forward to following that.
Okay.
And then the last note on your agenda
for today was to review, some of these
summer movies, specifically Fantastic.
Four,
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Hmm.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: I
think we both had the chance to see.
Which I loved.
It was amazing.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yes.
loved it.
Did you see Superman?
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yes.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
Okay, so maybe we can talk about both
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
Are we ready for this to be our
most controversial episode yet?
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: I'm
not here to review it by any means.
I'm just gonna talk about my personal
reaction to, These two summer blockbuster
movies that probably had very similar
budgets, I think Fantastic Four had
bigger stars in it because Superman, you
know, we didn't really know the lead guy.
I couldn't even tell you
his name, David something.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
David Cor
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
There you go.
both of them have had
really big marketing pushes.
Both of 'em had big IMAX releases
and one of them really resonated.
And the other one I haven't
thought much about since I saw it.
I'm really curious.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
Which one?
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: I
think the audience can, so I'm really
curious your take within that context
Like, how does that happen, Garrett?
how do two studios with equal resources
money room and space in the release
windows screens same budget, same
size, same scope, same everything,
marketing and production wise.
And how does, and they're both making
about the same amount of money right now.
Fantastic.
Four had a 66% drop from week
one to week two, which is big.
but they're both gonna make
about the same amount of money.
probably somewhere in the 500,
million to a billion dollar range.
Okay, but one resonates and one doesn't.
what's up with that?
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
Yeah, it's a great question and
again, I'm not a professional critic.
I'm appreciative of anybody's
work as far as film goes.
from just an audience, perspective,
Four resonated better with me because
I think there was human emotion.
there were human stakes, which I thought
was very, different than Superman.
one thing that was disappointing to me is.
as much as the movie is about
him, the human side of Clark or of
Superman, I just didn't resonate.
There wasn't there, there didn't feel
like there was any human stakes, at stake.
and so I think that the, that's why
fantastic force sticking with me more.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yeah,
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: One
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: I.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
Daren, the aesthetic.
Fantastic Four was so rich and
original, and fun to look at.
it was such a retro, futuristic
combination that was something
I hadn't seen before.
Superman felt like a lot more
of this, very destruction type.
the CGI, just insane amounts of
CGI, where there was very little
reality for me to grasp onto.
I thought, gosh, I just want
some sort of human connection.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: Okay.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: I think
part of that comes from the director.
a lot of it comes from the
director, we've got Matt.
Is it Shaman?
Matt Shaman who, I was just
looking at his history.
he comes from
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
Yeah, amazing.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
a lot of tv.
And, but you look at, he did Wanda
Visions, you know, which had a
very specific aesthetic to it.
He did Game of Thrones, the great,
it's always sunny in Philadelphia.
he's got this really broad
palette to paint from.
And that showed up.
he's done a lot of tv and you
look at everything that he's done.
There's, there's a lot
of different looks there.
American Gothic, game of Thrones,
billions, the Boys succession, the Great,
these are all very specific visual, shows.
I think he brought a lot
of that to the table,
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
to him because he is going into these
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Mm-hmm.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
these TV worlds which are built or which
have their team adapting or fitting in,
his director's touch in those worlds.
And so I think that there is
this respect for those worlds.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yeah, so
similar to you, I do think it's the human
emotion, and I want to add on a layer on
top of that, which is the relationships.
So you've got two similar stories,
like there are people that have to
prevent the world from ending, right?
Like, again, it's all
things considered on paper.
They're very similar movies, but you
look at the relationships, I think,
Superman did for me personally.
Superman did an okay job between Clark
and Lois, like giving us some human
emotion and some real relationship.
Dynamics there, but everyone else
in the movie, I didn't feel like
there were real relationships there.
They were just people on screen.
So the other people that worked in the
Daily Planet, is that what it's called?
The newspaper?
I didn't feel like there
were real relationships.
They were just kind of taking up space.
And the three, what
were those guys called?
The Green Lantern and Justice
Gang, They were just caricatures.
I know Eddie Gathe.
he did a great job, I
thought as that character.
Whose name?
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: Mr.
Terrific.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Mr.
Terrific.
I love, love, love Nathan Fillon.
And I thought it was kind of a weird role.
just like why does this character
exist other than to just maybe
set up future movies but also
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: Sure.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
take up space.
a lot of it was clunky for me.
Everything revolved around this
event where, the two lead characters
in Fantastic Force, Sue, like
what was, I forget their names.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: And,
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
this storm.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
whatever it
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
Reid Richards and Sue Storm.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yeah.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
they, not to spoil it for anybody,
but They discover they're pregnant
after trying for many years.
that central inciting
incident for the movie.
Everything else in the
movie revolved around that.
their brother or brother-in-law
and their best friend are part of
this, quartet that's at the core of
the movie, but even the villain is.
connected to that inciting incident.
you've got this really rich.
story that's revolving around these
relationships and the dynamics of,
okay, this is my nephew and this is my
sister, and this is my brother-in-law.
Or this is my best friend and
these are my two other friends.
And we had this shared
experience together.
And what happens if someone's
trying to come in and destroy that
central thing that's core to all the
relationships, like it was so layered.
Because of the relationship
dynamics that were at play.
So everything felt in service
to that and was reinforcing
that as opposed to, oh Yeah.
these two, have some witty banter
for a scene, but then we never
think about that relationship again.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: right.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
I'm curious, Daren, I'm curious,
if this is too skeptical of me,
but you've got so much writing
on both of these movies, right?
And you got James Gunn who is the new,
co-head of DC now, everything is riding
on his career to make Superman work.
Plus he is the head of DC which is
a major division of Warner Brothers.
I think he has amazing access to tools.
as far as promotions and publicity,
I've been very skeptical at some of the
promotions of publicity about how great
is and is doing and everything like that.
And a lot of it has felt in service
to James Gunn, the new head of dc.
We want to make sure that this
guy is happy for future work and
Projects it's hard to find a
marketing piece about Superman
without James gun's face on it.
Like every article, everything
that James Gun's, we get it.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Hmm.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
And I think that there's a lot of
service to him saying, we are just
gonna force this to be a success
because so much is riding on that.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
I don't know if that's,
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
Fantastic Four.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
I don't know if that's cynical.
I do think a lot of the draw of this
movie was James Gunn, and a lot of
people are coming over from his work
he's the biggest name in the movie.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: Well,
no, I think that the problem is that
Superman is the biggest name of the movie.
I think that they've deflated that and
they go, oh, we're gonna make this about
James Gunn and this is our campaign.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: I see.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
a dog in real life.
And these are true stories
about James Gunn and his dog.
every time I watched the movie, I just
imagine James Gunn and his dog and him
going, oh, this will be so fun, the movie.
We're gonna put this in the movie
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
Interesting.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: there's
so much bigger, like Superman is bigger
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: I know,
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: Gunn.
You have to admit that.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: I know.
and I think everything supports
what you're saying Yes.
a lot of the clunkiness I felt was like,
why is Superman being rescued by a dog?
It's Superman
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: again
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: and,
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: and
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
and basically the best
known superhero ever, right?
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yeah.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Everyone
knows who Superman is, and yet it's
not gonna make as much as Spider-Man
has in the last couple of movies.
It's making about as much as some Batman
movies have in the last 10 or 20 years, it
made more than the last round of Superman
movies, opening weekends at least.
in all ways, it seems like it's
successful, but where I judge
success in my life, like I've got
three movie posters behind my.
Head, and these are movies I've
watched dozens of times each,
it's the Corno trilogy from Edgar
Wright, and it's not because.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
it was carpenter, faith of angels
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
Those are the big ones behind me.
But the trilogy that I try to remember
and I'm, surrounding my head with on
screen is like, I want stories that
resonate for long, long periods to this
day, hot Fuzz is my favorite movie.
I watched it for the first time in
2007, so we're going on 20 years
back to the Future is up there.
and, yes, the Dark Night is up there.
And yes, I've got a lot of
movies that I love, but.
There's one that I will
watch anytime it's on.
Anytime someone suggests it.
anytime I've heard that someone has not
seen it, I schedule a movie night at
our house to say, you're coming over.
I'm gonna make good food.
And have fun drinks like soda you're
gonna come over, we're gonna watch this
and I'm gonna get the joy of watching
you watch this movie for the first time.
I've done that.
Many times, like more than half a dozen
times with friends where I've introduced
them to the Corn Trilogy through Hot Buzz.
to me, that's the high bar
and the Superman, James Gunn
Superman did not clear that high
bar because it didn't resonate.
It's not a movie that
I care to go see again.
I'm not gonna rent it.
I'm not gonna watch it again.
It's not something where I can't
wait to see that movie again.
I would go see Fantastic
Four again this weekend.
You said, let's plan it.
It's like, Yeah.
let's go.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yeah.
I agree.
it's, been fun to watch the
battle and part of me just
loves the cultural impact of.
Movies,
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Mm-hmm.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: to
see Superman succeed or to be told of
Superman's success, is fun to watch
and go, okay, how are they doing this?
as far as what it means to me as
an independent filmmaker, there's
probably some great notes to
take from elements and marketing
How do we push a movie out to an audience
in a more genuine, authentic way.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
All right.
You ready for me to pull this full circle?
'cause people are probably going, why are
you guys talking about summer blockbusters
and AI stuff in the same episode?
I'm ready for this.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
I'm ready.
This is it.
This is the season finale.
Let's hear it.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
I think it's the same, discussion
in that you can't innovate on plot
anymore, these two movies if you
compared them to any other Marvel or
DC movie over the last 15, 20 years.
It's the same plot.
Something bad from outer space
is coming to destroy the world.
And this group of people
or this individual is the
one who can take them on.
And the new Tron Aries that I saw
trailer for, it's the same plot and
the new whatever, whatever, whatever.
Like big blockbuster
movies have the same plot.
They have the same budget, the
same studio, the same marketing.
It's the same.
So you can't innovate on that.
You can't give us more spectacle
because we've already seen it.
Every Transformers movie is just as much
spectacle as every Avengers movie, which
is just as much spectacle as what we've
seen in Superman and Fantastic Four.
So the only place to iterate is in.
what's the difference
between story and plot?
it really comes down to what's going
on in the lives of these characters and
how does it impact them individually.
if you avoid that part to serve the plot
or the spectacle, you're missing the
thing that resonates with the audiences.
I think that's what's gonna happen
with the AI platforms like the one we
talked about earlier there's gonna be
a lot of visual similarity and it's
just gonna feel like more of the same.
the only stuff that's gonna rise
to the top is the stuff that
resonates with audiences to go,
oh wow, I feel that same way.
And I like how this helped me
reframe that into something
different and it changed my emotion.
we go to the movies for a release
or to feel good, to laugh, to cry
or to be scared, if the stuff lacks
the emotional content, which I
would put Superman in that realm.
It lacked emotional content.
I didn't feel for this characters I
just watched stuff happen on screen.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yeah.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: watched
a plot movie, not a story movie, but
Fantastic Four for me was a story
movie, like it was an intimate real
story movie with real talent in the
actors there, like from the top down.
everybody understood the story they
were telling, not just the plot point
they were filming at that moment, and it
stands out For me, the full circle moment
is you have to really focus on story.
Not just, how it's produced or how it's
made, not just how much money there
is, not just who's attached to it.
Story, story, story.
That's the thing that resonates with
audiences and that's what's gonna
get your audience to keep coming
back 'cause you told a great story.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
I love it.
I think that's where those moments are
earned, those moments of humanness,
whether you get Superman saying, I'm human
That differentiates that one, that moment,
is almost an unearned tantrum a, fantastic
four saying, no, the cost is too great.
You're going, okay.
I can relate and connect to that
because it's an earned moment.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
Very nice, Daren.
wonderful episode.
what are we on episode 32 of this season
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: 32, 33.
Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
to, again, building, seeing what's
next as far as development and
pre-production on our future projects.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
thank you.
Thanks for going on this journey.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Same man.
It's been fun.
we made it to the end of season two.
I'm sure people are like, is
this gonna be 50 episode season?
But we did it.
I'm very excited as well.
Thanks for this podcast.
I look forward to it every week the
thing I love the most, Garrett, and I.
know you love it too, is people.
Messaging us And saying, no one else
is talking about the actual day-to-day
of the industry in the same way.
if this has benefited you as a
listener, we'd love for you to share it.
We'd love you to tell people about it.
I think the more people it can
reach, the more impact we can have
on this industry that we love,
but is also struggling right now.
So help us out with a share and a comment
and a review, and thanks for listening.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635: and
keep doing it because this next season
we will be talking about in detail almost
creating publicly, saying, okay, we're
writing the script, let's talk to writers.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_08-04-2025_100635:
this is my process.
In fact, next episode, we'll go
through this 90 beat breakdown of
how we tell a story in 90 beats.
And, How it really, streamlines
the script writing process.
I'm very excited about it.
daren-smith_1_08-04-2025_100635:
So that's so awesome.
All right, here we go.
Thank you for listening to this
episode of Truly Independent.
To join us on the journey,
be notified of and ask us
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Head over to 3coinpro.
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Thanks for
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And we'll see you next week.
Our intro and outro music is
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