Truly Independent: Demystifying the Indie Film Journey

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
hi, my name is garrett batty And

I am pitching a PG Hallmark style
romantic comedy about a man in Hawaii

who is selling his paddle company and
a businesswoman who falls for him.

Boom.

Now we know what that is

This is Truly Independent, a show that
demystifies the indie film journey by

documenting the process of releasing
independent films in theaters.

Each week, Garrett Batty and I,
Darren Smith, will update you

on our journey, bringing guests
to share their insights into the

process and answer your questions.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: Garrett!

How's it going?

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
Good, Darren.

Good to see you.

Welcome to another episode.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556:
Yeah, you too.

I'm excited.

I'm gonna give a disclaimer at
the beginning of the thing that

I might be a little loopy today.

I'm a little underslept.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
Okay, running on low sleep.

Well,

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556:
Yeah, which as we are used

to as filmmakers, right?

Um, but it leads into what we're talking
about today, which is why I brought it up.

So last week, Uh,
there's a local festival.

It's probably the closest film festival
to my house, unless Provo High School

does a film festival, but the Utah
International Film Festival was last week,

and you and I got to participate on a
pitch panel on Saturday morning, but I was

also there Wednesday, I did a three hour
workshop for all the filmmakers there,

which went great, and Thursday night,
I was there late, uh, doing, uh, We had

a screening of Give Me Your Eyes, which
I'd never seen with an audience before.

I didn't even know it was in the festival,

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556: that

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556:
but it was there,

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556: this

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556:
and we watched it.

That was this year.

Um, so that was, that was fun.

I don't know if it won any awards
or anything like that, but it was

just like, oh, A movie I produced is
in this festival and nobody told me

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
That's great.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556:
as it happens, you know, so I was

there late Thursday night, Friday
was a long day, Saturday was a

long day, Sunday was a long day.

So I'm just like a little tired,
but I'm so excited to be here.

It's the thing I look forward to
most every week at this point.

So that's what we wanted
to talk about though.

We had this pitch fest and we've talked
about pitching in the past, but this is

like a very specific style of pitching.

And we got some good examples, some
not great examples, some like really

brave, awesome filmmakers that came
and pitched to a panel of five of

us, five producers and directors
and line producers and stuff.

So curious your takes or takeaways from
that, or, or if we want to go through

like some, maybe are there things that we
would recommend people do and don't do?

that's kind of our topic today.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556: Yeah.

Pitching or during the pitch
fest and what to expect.

Uh, it was good to see you down there.

I did not know, that, uh, your
movie was going to be screening.

So congratulations on that.

I didn't know you'd be on
this panel, uh, with me.

So it was, it was really fun.

Really neat to, uh, be invited
out to that and then show up and.

There you were one of the
five panelists, which is neat.

Um, I've been, I've been so buried
on deliverables for faith of angels.

We're getting, uh, ready
for our streaming release.

We're, we're, we're actually streaming
on, uh, living scriptures, which is a,

one of the smaller streaming services
and will be released on angel studios

to their guild, in the coming months.

And then great American family has picked
us up, but with each of these comes a.

Massive list of deliverables, you
know, not just the movie, but all the

audio tracks and all the support and
metadata and everything like that.

So that's been what I've been under
the rock, you know, just doing that.

Uh, and we should, we'll dedicate
an episode to that you should

prepare for as an independent
filmmaker for getting your film.

Into streaming and what you need
to do to deliver everything.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: Yeah.

Well, I look forward to that too, because
as we're talking this season about prep

and development and those things, a
lot of those deliverables are things

you should be planning on early, early,
early on before you get into production.

So that'll, that'll be a good episode.

Little teaser for your audience.

Little teaser.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
That's right.

I was impressed.

Uh, just, uh, you know, an overview.

Yes.

This was the Utah independent Utah
international film festival, which is,

uh, run by, uh, Warren and Donna Workman.

they have done an incredible job
of growing this festival, uh, from.

You know, something that, that was an
idea, you know, years ago to really

this multi day, I mean, there's a
really cool festival environment.

They have a great location I showed
up and there was a check in table

and name badges and just bustling.

This was at 10 AM on a
Saturday the place was packed.

and I was just so impressed.

So, you know, again, shout out to
Independent Film and Film Festivals.

If there is a festival local to you
in your area, get involved in that.

and, uh, there are a few here in
Utah that do, do a fantastic job of.

know, encouraging independent
film, everything from shorts to

features to pitches and screenplays
and everything like that.

So, Warren and Donna have done an
incredible job of putting this together.

yeah.

So.

I feel like I'm, I'm not trying to stall.

I just want to kind of paint the picture.

Uh, so we

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556:
Close what you thought.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556: Yeah.

Uh, And the way this was lined up, there
was a panel of, uh, five producers, uh,

you and me being two of those and, um, uh,
varying, uh, varying, you know, looking

for different projects with different kind
of ideal projects that we're looking for.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: Yeah,

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
then each.

Person that was pitching had signed
up previously and came prepared to

pitch to the panel and to the room.

There were what, maybe 40 people
listening in 40, 50 people.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556:
it was a packed house.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
it was, it was surprisingly packed.

And so, yeah, in, they got about
two or three minutes to pitch and

then the panelists had two or three
minutes to respond and give feedback

or request a script or whatever.

So.

we, it moved through, it lasted two
hours and we heard some incredible ideas.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556:
I was really impressed.

I didn't know what to expect.

I, I come, I had come to
this festival last year.

I really just went to like a
networking event one night and was

really impressed that who was there.

I was like, Oh, I should have
been planning on this all week.

And so here I am this week
being more involved and, and

participating, but yeah, it was great.

There was, um, another
like director producer.

And a line producer and other
producers that were on the panel.

And it was cool that they did a good
job kind of selecting a smattering

of different people for the panel,
because it was really the context of

it was pitch this panel of five people.

And one of them might be interested in.

A conversation or reading your script,
uh, it, they kind of set it up like

shark tank and I'm like, well, I don't
know that we're making offers in the

room, you know, or that we're not doing
that style of pitching, but definitely

the idea of, oh, I want to learn more
about that, or, oh, I want to meet you.

And, you know, to, to fast forward to
the end for a second, you know, I have

four scripts in my, uh, inbox that I'm
reading this week, uh, that I requested

from people who pitched at the pitch fest.

So it, it does work, you know?

, but yeah, there was, there
was some feedback that I

gave kind of more than once.

And those were the points
that I wanted to share.

So maybe we kind of piggyback or ping pong
back and forth between, what could you do

to find more success in a, in a situation
like this, or maybe some of your takeaways

or favorite pitches or things like that.

So I'll start with, a lot of people
came in, with the plan to pitch a short

film and it was interesting because the
feedback from a lot of the panelists

was we can't do anything with that.

Shorts don't make money.

So it's great for you as
the writer slash director.

It's great for the actors.

It's great for the crew because they're
all going to get paid, hopefully.

But how does an investor or how does a
producer who's, you know, subsidizing

the film with their time and effort.

How do they make money on this?

and so it shorts are a hard thing
to pitch, especially in a pitch,

uh, fest scenario like this, because
the context was, we have the ability

to raise money or green light films
because we have companies that do that.

And we produce movies, and it
doesn't really make sense for

us to invest in short films.

Unless there's some other, um, outcome
that we're optimizing for rather,

rather than the financial upside.

So I don't know, I don't remember you
saying anything positive or negative

about pitching shorts, but what do you
think about pitching a short project to

a panel of producers at a pitch fest?

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
Well, I mean, I think I feel the same

way that, uh, I guess it depends on
what the expectation of the pitches,

if that per individual is just
seeking practice pitching, and I'd

like to get in front of people and
hear my idea and how it resonates.

I'm happy to listen to that, but I agree
as a producer who makes a living as a

filmmaker, short films are not something
that, in my experience have been sellable

you know, if they're pitching because
it's such an, you know, easy barrier to

entry, here's a super low budget, uh,
short, then typically there's not enough,

money a producers needs, to even kind
of worry about being interested in that.

probably great practice and great exercise
for them, but I would not expect, I would

not pitch a short film expecting that a
producer on a panel is going to fund, or

really, you know, glom onto that project.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: Yeah,
as a, as a quick addition to this

topic though of short films and film
festivals, I will say there was a team

that produced a short film that played
at the Zion's Indie Film Fest last year.

A film called to air
and I, it blew me away.

I was just massively impressed at the
craft and the quality of the storytelling,

the acting, the cinematography, the sound,
the music, everything was so top notch.

And I ended up talking to the
filmmakers at Ziff last year when we

were in like the filmmakers lounge
and was just really impressed and.

Talked to them and gave them some
advice and said, you know, I think,

you know, their next thing they
wanted to do was another short.

And I'm like, why?

Like, you're ready.

You guys have proven that
you're ready for feature length.

You understand storytelling.

You understand the art of, of all of this.

And they kind of.

Took it to heart and started working on
some longer feature length scripts and

even produced a feature length project.

That'll be at Ziff this year.

And so we actually went to lunch on
Saturday after the pitch fest and

we sat for three hours talking about
their next project, what I'm doing

with the film fund, whether or not
we want to do something together.

And so short films are a really great
way to have like a calling card that

can get you opportunities, can get you
connections, can get you meetings, but

the idea of before producing one, like
going to a pitch fest and pitching a

short film to be, you know, financed by
a panel of producers may be harder sell.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556: Yeah.

It goes back to the kind of a principle
that has been a guiding principle on this,

which is to know your audience, right?

And so if your audience is, Hey,
I'm pitching my film professors and

we're going to, you know, I'll get
together and make a movie and I've

got to pitch my short film idea.

Awesome.

But if these are professional producers
that are looking for projects invest

in or to develop or to be involved
with, then a short film isn't typically

something that we're looking for.

Um, I'll tell you.

Okay.

So one of the things that really stood
out to me as a great thing is, uh,

there were several pitches that came
in and they started with a strong hook.

And I think that that is vital.

Your first, and I noticed this, the
five panelists were taking notes, right?

And so how that works is, is
somebody is coming up, you know,

they usually introduce themselves.

So I'm jotting down their name and
then they say, my story or my film

is da, da, da, da, da, da, da.

And I'm going to write down those two or
three keywords so I can remember this.

Now, if that, if, if, and then usually
my notes kind of stopped and I'd pay

attention to what was being said, that
first or three sentence, what that was

the log line or the hook and those pitches
that had rehearsed that, that knew what

they were going to say, that knew what
their story was and, came in with, You

know, here's the here's the brief concept.

Here's the genre and here's similar titles
or similar films those were easy to really

kind of accept and listen to and pay
attention to and I think those stood out

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: Yeah,
I want, I was, this was on my list of

things to talk about because it was
such a big differentiator between the

ones that I immediately got and the ones
that I was like, wait, what is this?

So definitely things that I recommend to
include at the beginning of your pitch in

this kind of a scenario, the rating, the
genre, the comps, the title, the hook,

the things that you just talked about.

They all give me an idea because
there were half a time where they

didn't say what the genre was
and I'm like, is this a horror?

Is it a thriller?

Is it a, is it a drama?

Because I don't know.

And they didn't really go into detail
on, yeah, and then they stab him

in the neck and blood spurts out.

So it's a horror, right?

It's like, okay, well, I don't
know what this is and I don't know

how to give you feedback because.

If it is a horror pitch,
you did a great job.

If it's a drama pitch, you probably
missed a couple of key elements to

make a drama really, really sell.

So setting the context up front
is really, really important.

I liked when people included comps.

Um, because it just gives me an instant
connection to a visual, a style, a tone.

And I can go, Oh, okay,
they, that's interesting.

If it's this plus this, I've
never heard that before.

How are they going to pull it off?

And then they do.

And you're like, Oh,
that was a great pitch.

Right?

So

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
yeah, it stood out.

You know, if you come in and you
say hi, my name is garrett batty And

I am pitching a PG Hallmark style
romantic comedy about a man in Hawaii

who is selling his paddle company and
a businesswoman who falls for him.

Boom.

Now we know what that is, you know, and
you can even get into the budget range

and I'm we'll talk about the budget range
because, uh, um, we had, we had various

opinions on that, but anyway, hook,
they know what they're listening to.

And now you tell the story.

And it'd be concise and, and,
but I, but I'm already intrigued.

I know immediately if this is
something that I can listen to, or

if I can help who I can help pass
them on to, if it's not for me.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: Awesome.

Well, you teed up my
next bullet point budget.

Do you, do you include the budget number
or the budget range in your pitch?

And I was a vehement vehement,
no, please don't do that.

So I think we probably
have differing opinions.

So don't just pause the podcast
and be like, okay, I got to

take it out of my pitch, but.

Let me, uh, state my case here.

So on the panel, we had people that
produce movies for 50, 60, 75, 000.

We had people that produce
movies for one, 2 million.

And we have people that have been on
projects that are multiple million

dollars from everything from TV to,
um, to features and documentaries.

And so we had a, we ran
the gamut and basically if.

Every time that someone said,
this is a low budget, 100, 000

or less, or a, this is a 250, 000
budget, or this is a micro budget.

I was like, I'm out.

Like before they even said the log line
or what it is, I'm like, I can't do that.

I don't do that.

Because in order for me, like you said
earlier, to get paid as a professional

producer, my quote, my rate for
someone to hire me is 50 grand.

To produce a movie, like
that's the bare minimum.

And it's really based off of a percentage
of the budget for, to calculate my fee.

So if you're paying me 2 percent of
your budget, you know, it's gotta

be like, whatever that is, a two
and a half million dollar budget.

And so if you tell me it's
250 K, I'm like, I can't help

you because I can't afford.

To give up the income I would have
elsewhere to come and work on your movie.

Um, and so I really got
not rubbed the wrong way.

I wasn't offended or anything.

I was just like, man, I'm going to
give this feedback because every

time someone said low budget or micro
budget or a hundred thousand, I was

like, I'm not, I can't help you.

Um, I did come back after asking
some questions of people of like, Um,

you know, send me the script anyway.

I'm curious because really, and the, the
reason behind that statement of don't tell

me what the budget is in your pitch is
that's my job, like I'm a line producer.

I'm a producer as you're pitching it.

I'm putting together.

Oh, is this, does this benefit from
having a five or 10 million budget

because it requires big name actors and
big stunts and big visual effects in

order to pull it off or a big marketing
budget, or, wow, is this a really small.

Movie that could be done for a million
or even just under a million because it's

contained and there's like three main
characters, but it's really compelling.

Like, let me figure that out and
kind of put it into a budget range.

And then we can have a
conversation that expands on that.

But.

Man, every time someone did it, I
was just like, well, not for me.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556: Yeah.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: what
are your thoughts on budget in a pitch

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
I think that, I think your point

was, was said, um, yes, let, let the
producer decide what the budget is.

think that in the pitch you can use,
you can, you can kind of codify What

your movie is and we can, parse out what
the budget should be as you're talking.

I don't think you should shoot yourself
in the foot and go, I'm looking for

a low budget indie film movie, right?

Cause four out of the five producers
on, on that panel were immediate

passes before even hearing your idea.

And they might say, Hey, I
think this is a million dollars.

Like, I think this is a 2.

5 million movie.

If we get the right names and
package it together, we could really

pour something into it, but that's
something you're not interested in.

So we, we shouldn't do that.

But I think if you stand up and
say, yes, I'm, uh, this is a story.

This is a Hallmark style
rom com set in Hawaii.

Now we, now we kind of,
okay, I can picture that.

That's a one to 2 million film.

you know, there was one that kind
of talked about, okay, my movie is,

he said, this is a low budget movie
and it's an action thriller and

it starts out in Europe and yeah,

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: 1960s?

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
that's not a low budget movie.

And, and it shows that
maybe this individual.

understand the concept of what he's
pitching or the amount of effort

that, that would go into making this.

And so probably something that,
uh, that I would stay away from.

so yeah, I think you can codify what
it is without saying what it is.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556:
A hundred percent.

And I think you're right.

Like it says that a, they don't really
know what they're talking about.

If they quote a budget and
they've never like done a budget

before as a line producer.

Second thing is it made me feel like
they don't believe in themselves.

Like, why are you limiting
the potential of this project?

Which could be a really
great 7 million indie.

If you get it into the right hands and
the right production companies and the

right people, there were two or three
projects that I was like, man, this would

be amazing as like a super small eight
24 or a, you know, You know, four or 5

million Blumhouse or something like that.

Like, why, why say it's a 50, 000 movie?

That's not a thing.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556: Yeah.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556:
who's making those movies?

I don't know, but it made me feel like
they didn't believe in themselves either.

Which kind of took me out of the pitch.

It's almost like when
someone gets up for a talk.

And says, Hey, so I, um, you know, I
found out that I was doing this yesterday

and I didn't have time to prepare
cause I was traveling all morning and

I woke up sick and I have a headache.

And so buckle in, we got
an hour long presentation.

And you're like, Oh dude,
why did you say that?

Now I'm out.

Like I want to leave.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
in that.

Correct.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: So,
so up front, don't shoot yourself in

the foot by a talking about things
that you don't have the experience of.

Or B, undercutting yourself by
saying, this is only worth A

50, 000 or 100, 000 investment.

That's, that's not a great
start to your pitch either.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
Now I will say this, there is, I mean,

I think there is that mindset of.

As far as knowing your audience,
you know, that panel, we were

not investors, we're producers.

So your investor is clearly going to
want to understand your budget and know

that you have a budget and a breakdown
and something like that, but that's

what a producer will bring to them.

So, you know, maybe the, maybe the
intention there was saying, Hey, look,

I can make this movie for 50, 000.

I'm that's what I'm looking for.

They're not even looking for a producer.

Um, that may have been the
mindset or the intention.

some point you have to have that
conversation about budget in that

particular panel, though, we were.

It was less effective, I think, to
lead out with how much money you need.

little asterisk on that.

There was a pitch that stood out and I
think she was very, uh, organized and

had, she was rehearsed and had her pitch
and had already had some commitments.

And so she mentioned we've already
raised 25 percent of the budget, or

we have a commitment from England
for 25 percent of the budget.

And, pressed her on that a little
bit and said, what is that?

She said, well, it's 25%.

Okay.

What is the amount?

Uh, I was just kind of curious about that.

so.

There's an element there that
into consideration, okay, there's

already some producing happening.

Maybe we should, you
know, she needs a partner.

you know, and so that was a conversation.

We talked a little bit after

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: Yeah.

And within that same context, I think
it's okay to say if, if a producer

pushes you on it and says, Hey, well,
what budget were you thinking for this?

You're like, I don't really know.

I'm a writer.

Like I'm writing for the, I'm
writing for independent budgets.

Um, but it's totally fine.

I would rather have you say.

I genuinely don't know.

I'd love to hear what your
thoughts are and just put it back

on me rather than say 50, 000.

And I'd be like, Oh, well, okay, no.

Right.

So it, it may even be something
where you strategically avoid the

conversation and put it back on
the producer you're pitching to.

Cause you know, I was line producer on the
four movies that I've produced as well.

So I get that stuff.

And maybe that's what you're
pitching for is to find a partner.

Who can come in early, early, early,
help you put all of your documents

together, all your pitch materials
together, uh, love real line item budget.

That makes sense to someone in the
industry who can read it and go,

Oh, you've done your homework here.

This makes sense.

So yeah, it's, um, it was an
interesting thing because there were

like, I split the panel in half.

I think Chantel didn't really chime in on
that one, but like the other two people

were like, definitely tell me what it is.

So I know if it's for me or not.

And I was like, please don't do that.

You're hurting me here.

So it was an interesting
part of, uh, the afternoon.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556: Yeah.

So, I mean, yeah.

And it just goes to
show, I guess there's no.

Right way to do this.

These are all tips and discussion
points, and you might get in front of

a panel that that's what they want you
to lead with is what does this cost?

Um, but yeah.

Okay.

So one of the, one of the things that,
uh, that stood out is when people, and

this came from also an experience that
I was pitching, uh, the week prior,

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
The tip would be to highlight the why

now, like this story exists, or this
movie exists, but what is the urgency

or the relevance or the why now are
we, this particular story be made,

what are the stakes, both the stakes
of the story, which is great as you're

getting into it, and also the project.

the, you know, one stood out.

She had, had, did a fantastic job
about this, where she told, told

the, the story, mentioned that she
had the script done and that she was

working, you know, continuing to work.

And then she talked about a little
bit of the cause and, you know, why

this was an important, uh, social
issue right now and it was relevant.

kept the pitch interesting and gave us
a great, point to discuss afterwards.

And I just appreciated that there
was an awareness of, know, there's,

there's 35 movies being pitched here
or 30 movies or whatever it was.

you got to figure out why, why we're
going to select one, which one is urgent.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: And it
may be a combination of why now versus,

You know, what have you already done?

What's the momentum of the
context coming into this pitch?

Like you already mentioned, there were
people who had already committed some

money or have attached some people
or things like that, and you're like,

that helps us understand that like,
Oh, there's already some movement here.

You're not asking us to do
everything for you, which is

kind of the subtext sometimes.

So yeah, I think that's, both of
those are really important to include.

I don't really have anything else to
say other than, yeah, that's smart.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556: and
you hit it at the flip side of that

is if you don't do that, then you say,
you know, Hey, I've got this idea and

I'm thinking about making it a movie.

And I just think, okay, we're
not even, you're not even looking

for a producer or if you're like,
what would my involvement be?

I want to pay, raise money to, to
what, to help you develop the project.

And that might not be, you know, what, you
might not be ready to pitch at that point,

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: If
we're going back to the shark tank

comparison, when people come on the shark
tank and they go, we have a purchase

order from Walmart for a thousand or
a million units, and we need money to

fill the order that's urgent, right?

They're saying we've already
been given the stamp of approval

by one of the biggest realty
retailers in the United States.

And that's a lot easier for an investor
to put their money in because they know

that it's already got product market fit.

There's already distribution.

There's already a demand
for whatever it is.

So that's the same kind of thing you're
thinking about here is going, Hmm, do,

is there any amount, is there anything
that's happened or will, will happen

if I can get some fundraising that
can add some urgency to the pitch?

It doesn't have to be
socially relevant necessarily.

That's one version of it, but.

You know, the, there's, there's a
presidential election that's happening

and we need to do this documentary now
because we're going to document the

six months leading up to the thing.

Okay.

Well, that's really urgent because
if you don't get the money right now

or in the next month, it's too late.

So anything that you can do to add
a sense of urgency and a sense of

there's demand, there's momentum.

Those are good things to add to the pitch.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556: Yeah.

And I think there were several that
did have that and they did a great

job of pointing out, you know, I
did a short film on that and it won

this award at this festival and now
there's interest in the feature.

Okay.

That's a good,

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556: that's

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: good.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
now it's not a social

issue, but there's momentum.

So as a producer, I'm like, okay,
I'd like to participate in that.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: Yeah,
when it also has a different weight

to it where you're like I've been
I've been hustling on this thing for A

year, you know, as opposed to sometimes
there were, there was one or two, uh,

people that pitched multiple projects.

And I was like, that's
a different feeling.

It wasn't bad necessarily, but it's,
it's kind of like, I got a whole bunch.

Do you want any of them?

You know, take your pick as opposed
to, this is a story that I made

as a short, it won some awards.

It's in the festival this week.

I'm looking for people to help me
turn it into the feature because

it's won these awards and it's proven
that there's demand for the story.

That just has a different feel to it.

Neither is right or wrong,
just different feel.

So what feel are you trying to create?

What emotion are you trying
to create with your pitch?

In order to get people to
take the next step with you.

Okay.

Awesome one.

I got a big one and this
was like ubiquitous almost

anytime someone didn't do this.

Someone on the panel was
like, uh, I have a question.

So this one is tell us the end
of the story in your pitch.

Um, there were so many, maybe six.

60, 70 percent of the pitches that gave
us the trailer version of it, where

it was like the setup and act one and
act two, and here's where they are.

And then they're like,
and that's my story.

And we're like, no, it's not.

What happens at the end?

What happens to the character?

Do does this happen?

Does, does it resolve?

How does it resolve?

Like every time someone left it hanging.

So the first question from the panel
was, okay, well, what happens at the end?

And my comment there was like,
look, we need to know that you

know how to resolve a story.

And you've done this really great
setup of the hook and the genre

and the log line and the premise.

And you've kind of set up some
really great, compelling characters

and some great plot and some
stuff they have to go through.

Did you do it?

Did you pay it off?

Because if you didn't.

Hmm.

That sucks.

Right.

And maybe that's why they're not sharing
it sometimes, but it was like, there

was one pitch and I forget who it
was, but, oh, I think I know, I don't

remember her name, but I think I know
who it was, but she pitched us the

first, you know, two acts of the story.

And we were like, Okay.

Well, how does it resolve?

And then she told us the
third act and the resolution.

We're like, that's your pitch.

That was way more compelling
than the first half that you

shared in your actual pitch.

She's like, Oh, okay, well, I'll
definitely include it from now on.

So I strongly urge you
to tell the whole story.

We're there to, to not be
teased, but to be, to understand.

So if we understand the full breadth of
here's how it starts, here's the middle

and here's the end, then we know a, you
know how to string a good story together.

That's compelling.

That pulls us to want
to know what the end is.

And then we know that you've,
you've done it, right?

Otherwise we're going,
why did you stop there?

That's weird.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
I get that mentality because

you want us to lean in.

You want us to say,
wait, what happens next?

Um, and that's, that's
great for storytelling.

That's great for an audience.

Uh, but for somebody that you
want to partner with or you're

seeking producer, we've got to
know what we're getting into there.

There were a couple that
did a great job of that.

They told the story very concisely.

And, um, I think that, It gave lots
of room for questions about the

project, like, you know, again, we
could get into the why now and what

do you need and that type of thing.

The others that left us hanging, the
question time was wasted on finish

your story, like finish the pitch.

and I'll mention that there was
one that did a great job of setting

up that first and second act.

And we said, okay, what's
the rest of the story?

And when, when they mentioned
the third act, The story sort

of derailed for, for me though.

Okay.

Well, I'm glad I know the whole story
because boy, if I would have, you

know, gotten involved and that's the
direction they wanted to take it.

It's not a match.

so tell the whole story,
be confident in your story.

And, um, then, then we
can actually discuss

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: Big one.

Have any more thoughts there?

I got one more, but we're also, we
want to be cognizant of time here.

Cause we could probably go all day with,
with thoughts and feedback, but do you

have any other, uh, takeaways or notes for
people that are pitching at a pitch fest?

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
Um, the, the one, the, the, uh,

the one, and this, this might be
nitpicky, uh, but so, so we can keep

it brief, but, um, want to make sure
that you're pitching in your story.

You're pitching the kind of the
emotion and the, the, relevant

arcs and not necessarily this
happened and this happened and

this happened, then this happened.

You're pitching premise and,
and characters and not plot.

which I know you could push back and say,
well, you just asked to say what happened.

so there's a, there's a
delicate balance in that, but

oftentimes it was frustrating.

And I think the pitching would
get lost in this happened and

this happened and this happened.

And if, if you're pitching and you're
kind of barely hanging on, the panelists

have lost interest a long time ago.

So hook us with the characters, uh, you
know, the, the overview of what, of,

of what they're feeling or what their
experience is, but don't get into the.

You know, this happened, this
happened, this happened, plot,

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556:
I completely agree.

Um, so mine kind of goes along with that.

This may be my last one, but the
idea of just come prepared, right?

There were some people that, um, you,
you know, that they knew the story and

that they had written a screenplay and,
but, um, You know, becoming prepared is

like, do you really have you practiced
and tested your hook or your log line?

Do you know that it works?

You know, that it actually
does the job of hooking people.

Have you practiced in front of a mirror?

Do you see how you're looking?

You see how your, your hand
gestures and your body movement is,

is helping or hurting the thing.

Cause there were some that just
like look down and just, or, or some

that were looking at the audience,
some that were looking at us and

it had a different feel to it.

None were necessarily right or wrong,
but is it doing what you want it to do?

And also understanding the room
that you're pitching to, right?

It's pitching and at a pitch fest
is very different than pitching in

a room to one or two executives.

And some people got thrown off
by, oh, there's 50 people that

are listening to this thing that
I haven't prepared very well.

Because they pivoted from a short
pitch to a feature pitch that

they hadn't prepared for today.

And like those kinds of things, like we
get it, but you got to understand the room

and also how much time you have, right?

They were pretty explicit.

You have two minutes to pitch
your thing and then they have

five minutes to give you feedback.

And there was.

Two or three that went seven or
eight minutes on their pitch.

And then we're all like, cool.

Great.

You know, next pitch,
because we didn't have time.

We were trying to be respectful of our
time and the room's time to say, you

need to understand that if you were
told two minutes and you took seven,

you took five minutes of our time to
give you feedback and that's a choice.

And so at least that's
where I was sitting.

I was like, well, I'm not going to give
three minutes of feedback now because.

He took that time or she took that time.

So coming prepared, really understanding
what you're getting into practicing as

much as you can and testing the tension.

This is something that I talked about
in my workshop on Wednesday of like,

you want to know that, that your
pitch creates tension, meaning a poll

to have the person you're pitching
it to want to be involved, right?

Not necessarily the tension of the
story, but like, does this make

you want to be involved with it?

When you pitched me faith of
angels and the carpenter, I was

like, I have to do that movie.

Like, this is an amazing movie.

It's Garrett Batty.

There's all these elements.

I have to be involved.

And there was this pull, this tension that
you created in the pitch to make me want

to, like, I was knocking on your door.

Like, are we doing that?

Is that happening?

Can I be involved in another guy?

Right.

Cause I was like, I hope I'm the
guy I want to be the guy, right?

There's that tension you
create with a good pitch.

So test that with your log
line and with your pitch.

On your spouse or your writing partners
group or your friends and family

and say, how do you feel right now?

Not what did you think of the pitch?

How do you feel right now?

Do you feel tension?

Does it feel good?

Does it feel like a
project that's happening?

Is it creating the emotion that you
want to create and practice that?

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
yeah, great, great comments.

Yes.

I mean, coming prepared and it, and it
is a very different conversation, uh, to

stand in front of a pitch panel and pitch
your idea than it is to talk to your buddy

and say, Hey, what are you working on?

Oh, I got this idea.

And here's this, and that is, uh,
two, those are two very different

conversations, and we could tell, uh,
those that maybe had just thought, and

I've done that, where you just kind of
trade ideas back and forth with your

buddy, like, here's an idea, what do
you think of this, and that is not

pitch ready, uh, Steve Lee was one of
the producers on the panel, and he's,

um, just an incredible producer, and
he said, he said a couple of I need

you to go look in the mirror and like
rehearse and pitch what you're doing.

And, um, I think that that's pretty good.

That's pretty good.

Advice to do that.

There were others that had come
prepared with things written, but

their nerves got ahead of them.

And so they had a hard time, uh,
you know, vocalizing what was on

the page that they had written.

And the minute that they actually
looked at their page and read what

they had prepared, I was hooked.

I was intrigued.

I thought that's And so, you know,
take, take some time, I guess, to get

yourself comfortable enough in front of
a panel or a group or, you know, spouse,

whatever it is that you can, that you
can vocalize what you've written so that

you can deliver it, um, in an interesting
way, but yes, definitely be prepared.

Great, great tip.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: Yeah,

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
Hopefully this has been helpful

for people, for, for listeners.

And I know that's been good for me.

I, again, I pitched, uh, this is what
we, we do as independent filmmakers.

So just last week, and in
fact, yesterday I'm preparing.

These four movies, somebody reached
out and said, what are you working on?

And I've got four projects
that I'm pitching.

And, uh, so this, this never goes away.

We can always improve.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: yeah,
last night I was at a networking event

and pitched the film fund three times
and I'm going to another one tonight.

There's a whole, uh, tech industry here
in Utah that has an event this week.

And then another set of events next week.

And then I have an event
at the end of the month.

So I'm, Getting people to that
event by pitching what I'm

working on in every conversation.

And so going back and referencing,
you know, a few episodes ago when

we did our episode on pitching, I
think it's important to have all

these kinds of pitches ready to go.

Your quick pitch, your.

Your official pitch or your invited
pitch where you're giving, you know,

the log line or just a two minute thing.

You need a 20 minute version.

Like you need all these things.

So yeah, I'm glad we're talking about
it because I wish I had resources

like this when I was learning
how to pitch in the mid 20 teens

and doing a terrible job at it.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
We learn, we learn.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: Yeah,
that was 10 years ago and I'm very much

a, uh, an improved pitcher at this point.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
Well, good.

Uh, speaking of, well, I
don't know how to segue.

Uh,

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556:
Do it, do it.

Try again.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556: There's

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556:
There you go.

Hard cut.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
let's talk about independent

films that have been made and
are released in the box office.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: Yeah,

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556: tracks.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: they,
you know, our audience will go with it.

Can I throw out an interesting
statistic from last year's box office

before we get into this weekend?

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
please do.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: Um,
I was reading a article from Steven

Follows, our friend Steven Follows,
from 10, 11 years ago, 2016 or 2017,

my math is wrong, 8 or 9 years ago.

Um, where he had talked about the
top 50 films over those previous

couple of years represented about
75 percent of the total box office.

So, essentially, studio movies.

represent 75 ish percent of box office.

Do you have, do you venture a
guess as to how much box office the

top 50 films represented in 2024

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
Oh, you're putting

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556:
higher or lower?

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
I would guess higher.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556:
It is higher.

So the total us box office 2024, 8.

8 billion.

The top 50 films took in 7.

2 billion of that representing 82.

42 percent of box office, which I
don't know what to do with that other

than it's an interesting statistic.

The number's gone up in the
last eight or ten years.

I do not think that means that there
is less opportunity for indie films.

While there are lots more movies
being made every year because of

the democratization of film, I think
there's the same amount of, uh, ticket

buyers, essentially, as there were
before the democratization of film.

And, um, The opportunity is still there.

You can reach your audience.

If you've got all the pieces in place,
uh, like we've talked about in this show.

So there you go.

Nice little nugget.

And I just dropped into your ear
holes and your eye holes today.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556: Okay.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556:
How's that for words that were

not on your bingo card for today?

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
would not expect any, uh, okay.

Awesome.

Great.

Um, no, that is, that
is an interesting fact.

Um, this weekend we are reporting
on the January 10th through 12th.

Uh, Den of Thieves led the box
office, Den of Thieves 2 sequel.

Um, and a shout out to a
movie called Game Changer.

was the number nine movie
released on 800 screens.

I don't know who released it.

There's no studio for the released.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556:
it's, uh, Schlocka Entertainments.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556: Okay.

Okay.

So maybe, maybe a foreign,

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: Yeah,

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
certainly attracted a foreign audience.

They did 2.

1 million on 800 screens
and broke into the top 10.

On their opening weekend.

So, uh, Darren, your theory about the
of a low end, you know, 15 million

number one movie means that the number
nine and 10 movies have to have, you

know, are typically going to be higher
1 million to break into the top 10.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: yeah, 1.

5 for the number 10 slot and it's
just like, it's, yeah, I'm glad you're

calling it my theory because I want to
trademark that and make it my thing.

No, but I think it's just an
interesting thing that keeps popping up.

Um, but yeah, Roadside Attractions,
that movie's doing all right.

Uh, The Last Showgirl, which is
a Pamela Anderson thing, I think.

And then The Brutalists from A24.

Homestead, still killing
it from Angel Studios.

They're, they're going to break 20
million on that movie, which is a

big, big deal, uh, for that project.

Um, Interesting though that
Better Man, the movie about Robbie

Williams, um, you know, traveled.

So it's, it's a UK film that really
came over here to the United States.

Uh, not, not doing what they hoped
didn't break the top 10 this week.

And so it's always interesting
to see how, uh, movies perform

and how they don't perform.

But yeah, complete unknown still
performing beat out wicked this

week, which is interesting, you know,
granted complete unknowns in his third

week and wicked in its eighth week.

So that makes a difference, but
wicked still playing on more

screens than a complete unknown.

And it's still eked it out by 200 and
200 essentially between the six and seven

spot, uh, nine, you know, 199 or 197
difference between those two kind of fun.

Um, But yeah, I love it.

I'm glad that movies are coming back out.

You know, last week we had like
two new releases and this week,

one, two, three, four, five, six.

So that's awesome.

It's fun, fun, fun, fun.

Let's make more movies and put them in
theaters and have people go see them.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556: Do it.

Hopefully this, this podcast
helps people do that.

We've had some great comments, um,
on some of our previous episodes.

Uh, we want to get to those.

Somebody asked about packaging
movies, you know, and maybe how

to, how to package Like get a
star attached and go that route.

And so we'd have to, I'd have
to, we'd have to bring on a

special guest to talk about that.

I don't have experience in
that, but I love that topic.

And I think that that's how we
get from the privately funded,

you know, 1 million movies.

Up to more of those independents that
are five to seven million dollars

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: Yeah,

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
package those.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556:
it's awesome.

All right.

I'll keep my eyes open for
who we should bring on.

I have a little experience with
that, but we should bring someone

else on for the official word on
how to package indie projects.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
Yeah, it's great It's great topic.

Uh, and but keep the comments
coming keep sharing the podcast.

We're seeing growth and we love it uh,
we will be at uh different festivals

around so, um at ziff in march and um
christian festival I can't remember the

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: NRD.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556: nrb.

Thank you.

Uh, so look forward to talking
with our listeners there.

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: Yeah,
it's going to be a fun year all around.

All right, man.

Good to see you.

I'm sure we'll talk later today.

So see you then.

garrett-batty_1_01-14-2025_103556:
All right

daren-smith_1_01-14-2025_103556: See you.

Thank you for listening to this
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