S2 EP9 | The Essentials of Film Deliverables: Streamlining for Success
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654: okay.
Well great just saved another 15
grand because we don't need to
mix in at most we can deliver 5.
1.
This is Truly Independent, a show that
demystifies the indie film journey by
documenting the process of releasing
independent films in theaters.
Each week, Garrett Batty and I,
Darren Smith, will update you
on our journey, bringing guests
to share their insights into the
process and answer your questions.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654: Hello.
Hello,
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654:
Hey man, dude.
I'm so good.
I'm excited to be here.
We're a recorded podcast.
It's my favorite thing every week.
I love it.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
Well, welcome.
Welcome to our listeners.
Welcome to truly independent.
We have another exciting
episode for you all.
We're going to talk about deliverables.
We're going to talk about box office, and
we're just going to give an update on how
things are going with our own projects.
so thank you once again for tuning
in and for watching and for sharing.
And thank you for your
questions and comments.
Those are really, uh, they help
us know what to talk about.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654:
Yeah, a hundred percent.
It's been nice to have a little bit
more time to focus on promoting this
show every week and getting feedback
and seeing people's responses.
Like there are people.
Not just in the United States, like
worldwide audience that are listening
to this religiously every week.
And I get DMS about, Hey,
I listened to that episode.
Hey, that was a great one.
And there's like the people we want
listening to the show, like any
filmmakers who are trying to do the same
stuff we're doing, we're hitting it.
So it's, it's so fun.
I love this stuff.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
Yeah, it is a lot of fun.
And I feel like it's a community
that's all, we're all listening
and learning together and, and, uh,
then putting it into practice and
it's fun to be able to do that, now
having released several movies and
now in development on several, so
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
It's fun to be able to share that
experience with our listeners.
So thank you.
Uh, that
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: Garrett.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
yeah, go ahead.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: Yeah.
Why are we talking about deliverables?
When we're also like this season is
about development and financing in
the early stages So what the heck man?
Why are you throwing us a
curveball and talking about
stuff that happens at the end?
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
Well, uh, two reasons.
One part of that is a little selfish
because that's what I've been doing
now for the past couple of weeks is
working on deliverables for faith
of angels, which is, uh, going out
to your, their streaming sites.
But one of the great things that,
uh, enables us to be able to
deliver Um, kind of consistently
and efficiently is the work that was
done in development on deliverables
planning for having to distribute.
I know in my first film, uh, that I made,
you know, you get so excited and you make
the movie and you scramble all together.
And then the distributor says, great,
we'd love to pick this movie up and
put it out on at the time on DVD.
And then they send over a document
with About 30 items that you need.
I didn't know where any of that stuff was.
I hadn't prepared or planned or anything.
And I think, boy, a lot of this,
if I would have taken care of it
in development and pre production,
this would be a streamlined process.
So hopefully talking about deliverables
now can help our listeners know that,
Hey, we want to be in the mindset
of we're developing a project for
delivery, not just to create a movie.
But to successfully
deliver it into the market.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: Yeah.
Well, this is timely as well,
because I'm getting questions.
I can think of two people in the last
two weeks that have either called
me or saw me at a festival and said,
Hey, I have a question about this.
And one was about life rights,
like, Hey, I'm trying to tell the
story of my, you know, grand, great
grandma from a hundred years ago.
And I was like, I'm not a lawyer, so
I'm, I'm very hesitant to give you
any sort of advice on this stuff,
because I don't know how things change.
I don't know what new
laws have been passed.
I don't stay in a, I'm not
staying current on those things.
So yeah, rights, chain of title, like
I hope we're talking about that today.
And then music rights is another one
that came up of a short film maker
that was asking about, Hey, I'm, I'm,
Putting this short film into festivals.
Do I need to get licensing?
Do I need to pay fees in order to do it?
And I was like, here's my
take, but talk to a lawyer.
So maybe, I don't know if it's on your
list of things to talk about, but I
think inherent in all of it is like, you
want the right people looking at these
things, these different deliverables
and going, yes, you're, you're good.
Yes, you're good.
Right.
Instead of being like,
yeah, I think I'm good.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654: Sure.
Yeah.
And there's that balance because
again, we're independent filmmakers.
That's the whole nature.
We're saying
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: Right.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
stuff, we're bootstrapping.
We don't have money to reach out and
talk to a lawyer or, um, you know,
even to, even to hire other people.
to help us, we don't have a super, a
music supervisor budget or, you know,
a contracts or even an E and O budget.
But these are the things that maybe, uh,
we're going to talk about how, you know,
where to put your money, like where,
where it is valuable and say, yes, no,
you know, is required and, you know.
Is worth the, worth the cost.
So that type of thing.
So the first thing I wanted to
get into is, uh, you want to just
understand the required deliverables
list, like each distributor, you know,
we're distributing faith of angels.
It was out in theaters in
September, October, November,
and now we're delivering it
to different streaming sites.
each distributor has their own
specific requirements for deliverables.
So these include video and audio files or
legal documents and marketing materials,
and they're all varying technical specs.
So you want to request early on
from those distributors that.
either working with or pitching
to their list of deliverables.
Just get that early on, make it a
part of your development package.
And so that you can start to
budget for those items that
you're going to need to deliver.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: Yeah.
Basically everything that you capture,
I'll use that word, everything that you
bring into your business for the film
is going to then be handed off at some
point to a distributor or sales agent
or streamer or whatever it might be.
And so whether that's audio or
video or paperwork or contracts or
agreements or insurance documents,
it's like anything that you.
Create anything that you capture.
You need to make sure that
you understand how it's going
to be handed off at the end.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654: And
I think one of the best ways to do that
is, I mean, there's a, uh, as you get
lots of people working on the project.
You know, most people, most people will
set up a drop box or a drive or some sort
of, um, standard place where everybody
can start putting their development
files, whether it's your script or
your breakdowns or your contracts,
your life rights and legal documents
or, you know, pre marketing materials.
And so you'll start to build that out.
And I usually take that list of
deliverables that the distributor
gives us, and I build a folder
for each item and put a red dot.
By each folder.
And then as I fill it,
change that red to green.
And so you know, you know, you have it.
It's a great way to stay organized.
And when second and third and
fourth distributors, you know,
international or direct to DVD or
whatever it is, distributors come
in, you're not, you're not trying
to track all that stuff down again.
You can just take all those
folders, copy them onto a new
hard drive and send it out.
Um, so it's a great, great way to do that.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654:
Yeah, saves you a bunch of time.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
yeah, yeah.
Okay, another thing is on your
deliverables list, this is
number two, there's ten items
we're going to talk about.
Number two, master the delivery formats.
Uh, so you're going to look at these
deliverables, uh, in the lists and
they often include different formats.
You know, you've got your
ProRes, 422, HQ, 4444.
Uh, for theaters, you've got your
DCP, um, or a broadcast ready version.
So, and then, uh, in addition to
the video, you've got the audio,
you know, you've got your 5.
1 or your 7.
1 or, uh, stereo mixes, um, M&
E's and, and, uh, M& E splits and
stems and like all of these things.
And it's all just kind of music to my
ears, but it's like, Oh, this is exciting
stuff, but it's tedious time consuming.
And so make sure.
You know, one of our deliverables, our
distributor says, here's a deliverable
list and everything needs to be shot
at, you know, uh, whatever, um, at
this aspect ratio and this resolution.
And gosh, if we hadn't have been
aware of that, and really made,
you know, an informed decision on.
Which camera we're going to use
and how we're going to shoot it.
You know, you get to the end of it
and they say, Hey, we want your movie
and say, Oh, well we don't qualify for
streaming network because we shot on.
Such and such format.
that'd be a mistake.
So pay attention to your delivery formats
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: Yeah,
well, this is maybe an important point
to say, um, if you don't know this
stuff, find the person who does, right?
Um, like this is great.
As soon as you get into aspect ratios and
splits and all the different things you
just talked about, this is like the great
time for a post production supervisor.
Or your audio post supervisor, your, your
post production sound mixer, what, whoever
you have and engage them early on to tell
them, this is what we're shooting for.
And I've heard horror stories of people
who filmed with the camera that they
owned or filmed with the camera that
they thought was amazing and the best
one on the market, only to realize
that it doesn't fit the deliverable,
um, like the, the cam, approved
camera list on Netflix or HBO or NBC.
And they went, Oh shoot, we have this
whole thing and we can't distribute it.
because it doesn't fit
their format restrictions.
And you're just like, Oh man.
So this is why I think we're
talking about it now, because in
the early conversations, you know,
maybe this is after you've been
greenlit and you're saying, we have
the money we're making this movie.
Let's get our department heads together.
Let's get our cinematographer.
Let's get our VFX people.
Let's get our post production people
and say, This is what we're doing.
Here's our deliverables that
we're aiming for so that everybody
knows what's the aspect ratio.
What's the frame rate?
What's the audio rate?
What is the deliverable that
we're going to need to have?
Because if you get to the end and
you tell an audio post production
sound supervisor, And they mixed a 5.
1, you're like, Oh, well, we need a 7.
1 or 11.
1 or an Dolby Atmos.
Guess what?
You just added another 25 grand to
your budget because they're going
to take another month to deliver
that and create that for you.
So really need to have
that conversation early on
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654: and
and it can work in your favor You know
as far as an independent film budget,
you know You're often trying to figure
out where to save money and it can work
in your favor and saying look we're
delivering What are your deliverables
and this studio is requesting a 5.
1.
It's like, okay.
Well great just saved another 15
grand because we don't need to
mix in at most we can deliver 5.
1.
Um, and so it keeps
everybody on the same page.
You don't want to over your movie.
Um, so, uh, okay.
Uh, but that brings up the third
point, which is quality control.
A lot of distributors, they,
uh, they require a QC pass
from like an outside source.
So that'll make sure that your
film meets technical specs.
So you're going to want to work with, you
know, if you've got your post supervisor
with a lab or the QC professional.
Um, Um, you can even talk to
your distributor and say, great,
we're ready to deliver the movie.
Who do you recommend that we go to for QC?
And there's usually a fee with that.
There's a pretty, they're, they're
happy to charge you to QC your movie.
Um, it, but it is part of something
that needs to be done for a deliverable.
So you want to pay attention to
that and make sure that that item
in your budget stays protected.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654:
when those are important things
too, because when I was doing
post sound, if you were like 0.
1 decibel off of the dial norm
restrictions or the, um, requirements.
They'd send it back and be
like, nope, it doesn't work.
And you have different mixes
for broadcast than you do for
streaming than you do for theater.
And they all have different requirements.
And so you're doing multiple mixes.
And so when you're budgeting those
things out, being able to tell your.
Post team, whether it's your colorist,
whether it's your editor, whether it's
your sound people to say, Hey, here's
all the list of deliverables so that they
can give you a fair quote up front for
like, we're going to do multiple mixes.
We're going to do multiple
sets of deliverables.
And even like you were talking
about earlier, what are the
different STEM requirements?
What are the different
versions of the mixes?
Do you need an LCR?
Do you need an LRC?
Like those are two
different outputs, right?
So you have to basically tell
them, here's all the different
deliverables so that they know,
okay, it's going to be X dollars.
And that includes all of this rather
than, yeah, I'll give you a 5.
1 mix.
And then you're like, well, I need this.
Well, that's going to cost extra.
Well, we need this.
Well, our facility
isn't set up to do that.
So you're going to need
to take it somewhere else.
Like that can really bite you in the butt
in the minute or the moment where you
should be delivering, you're saying, Hey,
I need another month to figure this out.
And it doesn't, it's not a good look.
So you're saving yourself a ton of
heartache if you do it up front.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654: I've
found, uh, with our distributors, um, that
this is something that they go through.
You know, your distributors work
with a variety of filmmakers and
films, and, um, they know how
to Gather these deliverables.
They need these so that they can do
their job of getting the film out there
to different networks and channels.
so it's, you know, it's nice to have
a good contact and I'd be right up
front with, you know, I'm, I'm very
up front and open with distributors.
Like when they're saying,
Hey, we need this item.
a great I'm I don't I'm
unfamiliar with that, or I haven't
delivered that in the past.
Can you tell me what that is?
Or can I talk to in
order to get that item?
You know, and, uh, you know, that's
that would not be the 1st time
that they've heard that question.
Be open.
Don't, don't try to fake anything.
You just, um, you're, you're on
their team and they're on your
team and you're working together
to get the movie out there.
Um,
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: of
this is meant to scare you until like,
Oh, moviemaking is harder than I think.
Yeah.
Or I was thinking, but it should help
you kind of rise to that standard of, Oh,
this is what professional filmmakers do.
And they talk about, and they think
about, and they prepare for the
deliverables that they're required
to send off when the movie's done.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
which brings us to the next point, which
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: I
don't know what these points are.
Am I really being you up that well?
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
you're segwaying very well or, or
whatever, but it's legal documents,
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: Hey,
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
and these are things that you'll
need to, that any distributor is
distributed is not going to touch
your film unless you can show.
Proper legal documents, and that's
including the chain of title and
the, you know, insurance and the,
uh, music licenses, actor and crew
agreements, and these all need to be
cleared and legally, aligned so that
the distributor is not taking a risk,
uh, undue risk in releasing your movie.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: I want to
go, I want to double click as they say on
chain of title, because that's a term that
people sometimes don't know what it means.
And it's basically like, if you
think of a title of a car, it
just shows who legally owns it.
Right.
So show us the chain, show us the series
of how the The ownership of this story
or this music or these trademarks or
these property rights, whatever it is
transferred to you, like where's the
document that says I was the owner of
this thing and now it's transferred
to the company that owns it currently.
And so it's a collection of documents
that just prove that you own the
film, that you own the rights.
So the rights to the script, the rights
to the story, the rights to enter any like
literary material, if it's based off of a.
An article or a book or a play
that you have that rights to music.
You need to show that like you have a
license and it's signed and you have the
ability to put this movie in your theater,
in your movie, sorry, put this music in
your movie and make money off the movie
because if you don't, they're going to
come after you, YouTube will flag music
that isn't yours or imagery that isn't
yours, if you don't have a chain of title
and can prove ownership or a license.
They'll just take all of the
revenue, the ad revenue from it and
divert it to the people who own it.
That's, that's what YouTube does in film.
They'll just say, Oh, we can't take
this until you get that agreement.
I was just reading the other day, two
days ago about, uh, um, Midas man, this
movie about the fifth beetle, like the
manager or the engineer, whoever it
was that was involved with the beetles.
And the, this history
of that movie and how.
How bad a look it is the way that they
tried to pull that movie together.
And to the, like, to the very end, like
to the time that the movie was released,
they couldn't get certain rights to
Beatles songs, which are kind of required
if you're making like a Beatles biopic
and they kept saying, yeah, yeah, yeah.
We got it.
Yeah.
We're talking with apple.
Yeah.
We got this thing.
Yeah.
We're in the room.
Yeah.
We're at the last leg.
And they just basically kept lying
to investors to say, yeah, we got it.
We got it.
We got it.
And then it turns out they never got it.
And so.
That's why a chain of title is important.
It protects you as the filmmaker, it
protects the distributor, and it makes
sure that everyone involved is like very
fairly aware of who owns the rights and
what's going to happen with those rights.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
again, we're not lawyers.
We don't, uh, so definitely if there's
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654:
Not legal advice.
Do
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654: uh, but
this podcast is based on our experience.
Um, in my experience, you
know, was doing a podcast.
I'm like, what, do you mean?
Do what, what rights do I need?
I mean, I came up with the, uh, the
story and I'm writing this script.
And, uh, so what do you
mean chain of title?
Like, well, how is that?
So for, for movies where it was this kind
of independent thing, I mean, every movie
is made under some sort of LLC, right?
If you're Oregon, if you're, uh, raising
money and putting it in your film company
or whatever it is to make your movie,
Then that LLC needs to own the script.
So if I've written a script and I own
the LLC, then I, Garibati, need to
sign the rights of the script with a
document over to the LLC so that the
LLC can make the movie and that's,
that's the way it is for any, any writer
or writer for hire or writer work.
So the LLC needs to own the script.
The rights to the script, um, the
performances, uh, the, the work
that the crew has done and, uh,
and the music clearances and stock
footage and everything like that, um,
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654:
do you have a.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654: You
build a legal folder, put everything
in there, like E and O, da da da da.
Make it a green circle when, when
you've, know, put the document in.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: That's
a really, really brilliant way to do it.
Um, are you, is, is a script
clearance on the list of 10 things
that you're talking about today?
Or is this a good time to
talk about a script clearance?
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
No, let's bring up script clearance.
That's, yeah, that
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: Yeah.
And this, this is something that once
your script is pretty locked, like
you don't want to do it on an early
draft because something might be
added later or something might change.
Um, so generally you're going to do this
off of your shooting script, but there
are companies that you can send your
script to, to get a script clearance.
And what they're doing is they're
essentially Like going over it from
a legal aspect to say, are you using
any names or imagery or, um, physical
things in your movie that someone
else owns the rights to, right?
So if your movie is totally based
on, um, going to, to Mars and you're
using Starlink throughout your entire
movie, you're going to need the
rights to be able to do that, right?
Because you don't own Starlink.
And that's a name that's
a trademarked, registered.
Uh, company and name and
you can't just use it.
Same with like Pepsi and Coke.
Same with phone brands.
Same.
That's why you see a lot of, um,
TV shows and movies that'll just
put like a sticker on the back of
a Dell computer or an Apple laptop.
Like, you know, it's an Apple laptop,
but there's no logo and they don't have
a trademark over black keys and a gray.
You know, laptop case.
And so as long as you're not
using the logo, you're clear.
And so a script clearance is an important
step in that chain of title process.
That's going to be asked for to
say, yes, we've run this through a
script clearance and we are good.
We're not using anything that someone
could claim is their intellectual property
or their copyright or their trademark.
And so we are free to use it.
Otherwise, if it does pop up
that you have something in the
script, you can either change it.
Right.
We talked about baseball names,
uh, team names inside faith of
angels that was flagged, but then
it was flagged as like, you're good
because of the way you're using it.
Right.
We're not, we're not disparaging it.
We're not using it as a key plot point.
It's just a passing, uh, thing.
It's like, yeah, you're good, but they'll
catch everything to make sure that
if you need a clearance, then you're
going to go get the rights to that.
You're going to.
Add that to your chain of title
and otherwise you're in the clear.
So you want to do that before you go film
the movie, because if you film something
and then it turns out you can't use
it or without paying a licensing fee.
Well, you might shoot yourself
in your foot because you can't go
back and film that scene again.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
You're paying for a reshoot or a, you
know, VFX to paint out whatever logo
or, uh, item that you couldn't use.
And it is, it's a tedious uh, but,
uh, do it up front, uh, get that
script clearance, and then your
distributor will have no questions.
I mean, yes, here's the script clearance.
movie, and very helpful.
Um, okay.
Another item number five That is tedious
and something you got to pay attention
to subtitles and closed captions.
Uh, it's pretty straightforward as far
as, you know, you just sending your
film to a service that will do that.
And making sure that you just
keep track of those files.
The biggest things that, can get,
you know, cause issues is if your
time code in your movie, you know,
changes or slides, or say, you know,
a distributor wants to throw on their
logo at the beginning, well, all of
your captions are timed to the movie,
and so that, that can throw things off.
Uh, so you want to make sure and
pay attention to, um, make sure that
everything is synced correctly and
is free of errors, Um, also, uh, in
creating subtitles and captions, when
you're sending your movie off to a,
to a house to do that, usually they
are not familiar with, you know,
your character names and some of
the vernacular that your film might.
It might contain and so it's good
to send your script with them,
uh, to make sure that, uh, that
that's as correct as possible.
And then when you get that file
back, do your own QC, make sure that
that, that the person hearing this
dialogue and interpreting it is in,
you know, has put it in correctly.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: Yeah.
No notes.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
And those are simple, simple
little files that can just be
added to, uh, to your deliverables.
Uh, we've talked a little bit
about this next one on this
podcast, but trailer and key art.
You want to make sure that you deliver a
high quality attention grabbing trailer,
both for theatrical and social media,
and then, uh, your key art, which is
your poster and make sure that that all
aligns with your marketing strategy.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: Yeah.
I, here's a thought or a question
for you just as a quick aside.
It's weird to me that every single
entity that's screening your movie,
distributing your movie, sharing your
movie wants their own clean version of
the trailer to put on whether it's their
YouTube channel or inside their app.
And I don't know why that bothers me.
Like we made it.
It's our trailer.
Why are, why do you want a clean copy?
Cause it feels like then
they're getting the benefit of.
The views or the data or all that stuff.
And then we don't have any access to it.
Right.
So do you have any thoughts on that?
Or am I just being whiny?
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
You're talking about like sending
out a trailer that they can tag
and logo, or you mean that they
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: Yeah,
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
own YouTube?
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654:
that they can, that they can
then, they have a clean version.
They have a downloaded clean version.
That's just like an MP4 file or whatever.
It's not a link to a Vimeo or anything,
so they can put it wherever they want.
They can put it on their own
website, their own YouTube.
They could say, this is a movie.
Angel studios has this movie now.
It's like, well, I don't know.
Maybe it's just a weird
personal glitch of mine.
That's like, but it's,
but it's your movie.
It's Garrett's movie.
Why isn't it not?
Why aren't they just pointing people to
the trailer that already exists online
that you uploaded when you first put it
online, but then our distributor took one
and then Megaplex has their own, and then
Cinemark has their own inside their apps.
And it's just like, it, it.
It doesn't necessarily bother me.
It's just a thing that I notice.
I
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654: yeah.
Uh, yeah, no, it's interesting.
And I mean, I think it goes to, again,
back to like building an audience.
If I'm going to go see a Steven
Spielberg movie, I'm not going to
his webpage to the trailer, right?
It's going to the distributor's webpage.
And plus there is, I mean, there's
just this flood of Um, you know, like
different YouTube channels, you know,
MovieWeb and IMDB and whatever it is.
And so the distributor wants to be
able to just put those, I think,
Faith of Angels, we paid to put
it on 200 film related sites.
And that would be a trailer going up
to their own channel or whatever it is.
mean, at the end of the day, yes,
if it promotes the movie, great.
Yeah, it is tough.
Cause it doesn't turn it back to the
audience that we're trying to build, but
hopefully we, you know, it goes beyond
our little channel and just reaches all
of the different silos that are out there.
I hear you though.
One of the things that, uh, in
addition to that is they want usually
textless of the trailer, both, both
textless for key art and the trailer.
So, you know, faith of angels has.
Starring would have Cameron Arnett and
John Michael Finley in the trailer.
And then also it says, you
know, they searched for hope.
They found a miracle.
Those are like key marketing taglines.
So we deliver a trailer
completely textless.
uh, you know, it's like scary
cause it's like, Oh, well they
could change it or whatever it is.
But a lot of that is for translation
for foreign Um, uh, yeah, they'll
put their own tags and dates
on it and things like that.
So at that point, I guess it's, you
have to accept that this movie is
now than, bigger than our edit bay.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654:
guess it's a good problem to have
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654: Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
If they say we don't want your
trailer, then you, then you, yeah,
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654:
bigger problems.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
Cause they'll probably bill you
for making their own trailer.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654: And
that is that actually, that is an element.
Uh, I've had distributors that haven't
requested key art then the plan is
like they'll create their own key
art and I usually get billed for it.
I say, no, this is the key art.
Here's what it is.
Here's a textless version
so you can put your own.
Logo on it, but this is the
key art and you work with them.
Um, okay next one metadata and
documentation uh, and this one is a
Little bit newer, you know with with I
guess it's all relative but uh, we're
going to provide a comprehensive metadata
sheet This includes the cast and crew
credits synopsis technical details and
genre tags back one of my first jobs in
la um We were creating, uh, write ups
for, uh, you know, a film was releasing
and have to do like a, uh, 500 words,
synopsis, and then a 250 words, synopsis,
and then a hundred words synopsis.
And it, it, it was, it was hard.
And if you didn't do that, you know, your
distributor, whatever it is, uh, they're
coming up with their own thing and your
messaging gets all muddled and somebody
might interpret your film as, as, uh, you
know, a family comedy and someone might
maybe only call it a comedy, you know?
And so it's a very different, so you
have, uh, most distributors will metadata
sheet, that has, uh, know, 30 questions
on what your film is, including genre
and credits and everything like that.
Um, and if, and if you just keep a good
Google doc with all of those things,
copy and paste them into each distributor
sheet, it's the same information
that you're copying and pasting
into IMDb when you're creating that.
Uh, then your metadata stays the same.
The running time stays the same.
The title of the movie stays the same
and everybody's on the same page.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654:
Brilliant.
I love it.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
Uh, that documentation, another part
of that documentation is a cue sheet.
Detailing all the music used in the film.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: Yes.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654: that's
essential for distribution, especially
when royalties are involved there.
And you probably have done a
few cue sheets in your day.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: Oh yes.
And, uh, I mean, you get one number
wrong and you got to resubmit it.
Like it's, it's pretty specific,
um, because they need to know.
Where are those cues happening
and how much usage is there?
And there's so much that goes into those.
Sometimes it does feel tedious.
It feels like, gosh,
why are we doing this?
It just feels like busy work.
And then you realize, oh, no,
in the, in the moment that you
actually need it, it's, it's a
really good thing that you have it.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
A lot of times your music supervisor
will help put that together.
Or your composer.
I know that for Faith of Angels,
we used some recorded, pre recorded
tracks and, composed music.
So I was able to go to Rob Elliott,
our composer, who's just amazing.
And, know, say, Rob, we need a
cue sheet for all of your tracks.
And he knows where they start and stop.
Um, And so, and, and, you
know, your composer is going
to have a template cue sheet.
he sends that over, I can add
the drop tracks that we used.
And, uh, it's, you know, doing.
And, and now, I mean, I still get
royalty checks from music that Rob did
for a movie, you know, three movies ago.
Uh, you know, the, the movie's playing
on some broadcast channel in Europe.
And, uh, at the end of the quarter,
I get a little check from, from
royalties that I split with Rob.
So it's kind of a fun.
It's worth doing.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654: Okay.
We've got three more, eight, nine, and
10, eight is the delivery timeline.
You want to make sure that, uh, that you
stick to the delivery schedule that's
set up by the distributor, and this will
help avoid any delays in the release.
Um, you know, we work hard
and make, make sure that that
delivery schedule is realistic.
But if you've done this stuff during
pre production and development, then you
shouldn't have any delays in, you know,
gathering up your, your deliverables and
getting it to the, To the distributor.
You do want to build a buffer, uh, because
there are some unforeseen things, you
know, your QC is going to get kicked back
or your, um, you know, make sure that
your licenses are in place or whatever.
One of the things that most deliver,
uh, distributors require is a copyright
and that takes forever, uh, you know,
both on the script and the film.
So once you finish the script and lock
the script, send it into the copyright
office because, you know, six to 12 weeks
later, you'll get an email back that
says, you know, here's your copyright.
same thing with the finished film,
copy that up, send it up to the
copyright office and, uh, wait and
wait and wait for them to reply to you.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: Yeah.
One, especially these are other
things that you need to think about
before you go into production, because
if you're trying to hit a delivery
deadline of December 25th to release
by Christmas, you got to backtrack that
and they're kind of reverse engineer.
Oh, we're going to need 12 weeks for this.
We're going to need this many weeks
for post this many weeks for QC,
this many weeks for these things.
Like it's not something that
you turn around in a week.
As you can attest to, because you've
been working on this for weeks and weeks
and weeks now, it's, it's something
that takes a lot of time, especially
if you're doing it all on your own.
And so you got to budget for that time
wise as well as financially to make
sure that you can hit the deadline.
Because if you start filming
in August, the idea that you're
going to release in theaters
is unrealistic, right?
We all kind of know that, but then maybe
we're not thinking about all the ancillary
things that come along with making a
movie, which is the post production
and then all the deliverables as well.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
Um, and it's important to do and
fortunately it's only a one, you
know, it's usually a one time thing.
So you gather it up, you keep it
all on your hard drive and then
as a distributor requests it.
You just copy those items over
to a new drive and send it off
or upload it via Aspera or Google
Drive or FTP or whatever it is.
And you send it off to the distributor
and you, you keep your deliverables drive.
So even, know, a movie
I made back in 2009.
I've got a, uh, I'm working to
deliver that because, you know, a
distributor wants it for its catalog.
I just pulled up the hard drive.
And I'm sending it off, sending
off the elements and, and, uh,
explaining why it's so low res.
It's 2009.
they didn't have really 4k stuff back
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654:
4k wasn't a thing.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654: Yeah.
No, I think we shot this movie on HDV, uh,
but at any rate, Uh, and that is the next
thing, storage and backup distributors.
They require deliverables to be
uploaded via secure platforms,
um, Aspera or Google drive.
So make sure you've got
a reliable internet.
So that you can store, uh, you know,
and, and upload these very large files.
I did just do one.
I've, we've got, I've got a gigabit
ethernet and it like took about 36 hours,
I think, to upload, cause it's about
a 700 gig file, just, just the movie.
Once you're at ProRes 4k or 444.
Anyway, it's kind of technical stuff,
but give yourself plenty of time.
Sometimes it's easier to just ship
a drive out and, and, uh, it'll be
there faster than the upload finishes.
and make sure you maintain that
backup copy of all deliverables
in case there's a lost hard drive
or technical issues or whatever.
So do you just have a mirror drive?
And, uh, if the deliverable, you know,
the tech at the, at the distributor
will call and say, Hey, we didn't get
this file and you can look and say, Oh
no, it's right here on your drive or.
Those right here on my
drive, I can send it.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: Yeah.
Do you have a process in place for
checking on those drives that are sitting
collecting dust on a shelf of yours?
Like I, I would get so nervous about
a 12 year old drive and saying that
the only copy I have is on this.
Hard drive from 15 years ago.
I'm not saying that's what you're
doing, but like, what's your
process for ensuring that there's
always a reliable copy available,
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
Great question.
And, uh, um, again, there are probably
post houses and QC houses that would,
know how to do this much better than I do.
But yes, I mean, I'll, I'll
cycle my drives once in a while.
You know, as I'm doing this deliverables
for this movie, that's 15 years old.
Um, creating, I'm bringing all
the assets onto a new drive.
Um, you know, and say, Hey, for 200
bucks, I can get it, you know, 15 years
ago, my, my whatever four terabyte
drive is this massive one now for
200 bucks, I can get a four terabyte
thumb drive almost.
Right.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654:
it's a credit card.
I mean, literally like
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
kind of, yeah, just
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654:
the business card.
And there's that, like,
it's the same thing.
It's crazy.
It's a four terabyte drive for 125.
Like.
What?
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
but and I do I've got and so like I've
got a uh, this right here So well, I
guess this is the podcast But I have a
hard drive that just I keep a label on
it says look this is for This is the
Saratov approach deliverable drive Right.
And so if somebody, uh, you know, once my
contract runs out and I go with another
distributor or whatever it is, take
this drive, copy it over and send it
to them or just, but I keep it updated.
So each film has a deliverables drive
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: I haven't
been keeping up on technology or anything.
So apologies for this aside, but like a
solid state drive, is that more better
than an old, you know, spin up drive
that has like, uh, an RPM and stuff like
a 7, 200 speed drive, like our solid
state kind of more robust and more.
Um, are they, is this going to be
bet like better in 10 years than the
equivalent of a typical hard drive?
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
in my, in my opinion.
Yes.
My experience.
Yes.
Um, I think everything's
kind of shifting to that.
Um, don't, you know, talk to a
lawyer for, for legal help and talk
to a technician for drive help.
But, uh, so far in my, in my career.
Uh, everything has worked well where I've
tried to keep up on the technical side
of things as far as drives and computers
and, and aspect ratios, and just kind of
keep, you know, Keep things up to date.
You know, I don't, you don't need to save.
I don't save, you know, all
of my edit files and the
renders and things like that.
You know, at some point the picture
is locked, the movie is done.
Uh, and, and nobody's ever
going to ask you for the takes
you didn't use in the movie.
Um, So, you know, those drives,
I don't spin up and back up, but
fortunately drives are cheap, right?
It's easy to have multiple backups.
And, uh, so I, I keep multiple backups
and then I keep a Google doc of
where everything is on which drive.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: Nice.
Very cool.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654: Okay.
The final one, number 10, here we go
is, uh, Cost impli cost implications.
Preparing deliverables just, it can
be expensive, Particularly when it
comes to DCP creation or QC, uh, legal
clearances, like anytime you're involving
other professionals and services,
service providers, you, you are, you
are, they are billing you for those.
Um, you know, I've spent the past two
weeks on two, you know, deliverables
for, you know, archiving Carpenter and
delivering Faith of Angels and things
like that and even that is time intensive
and labor and know, it has a cost to it.
So just factor these costs
into your production budget.
Um, also when you look at that deliverable
list from that, uh, distributor, feel
free to negotiate with the distributor.
Like if any of the requirements
seem or overly costly for your film
scope, you know, for, for the first
movie that we shot on DV, you know,
I, I think I told the distributors
like we're not, we don't have a lab.
We're not using a lab.
I mean, if, um, we'll QC the movie, but.
There is no place that they're gonna
be able to call and get all of the MNE
and stereo stems or whatever it is.
is kind of, this is the
movie, this is what we have.
And that's okay.
That was the scope of that movie.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: Yeah.
And I think that just speaks to
your prowess as a producer to say,
well, this is not going to happen.
Like, or there's even times where you can
pass along some things to the distributor
who's asking for it and say, well, look,
you're the only one asking for this.
And we've got four other people
that we're delivering to.
We'd love for you, you know, we'd
love for you say it kindly, right?
You don't, you don't be mean, but you
say, look, you're going to need to cover
the cost of that because we can't do it.
You know, we are out of budget.
We, no one else is asking for this.
And so if you, if you
need it, then it's on you.
And I've seen them do that.
So
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
Yeah, most agreeable, they
are agreeable to that.
Uh, I mean, I had a distributor
cover E& O insurance once because
I just didn't, I couldn't have it.
The movie wasn't even planned for that.
We had, And then we thought, Oh,
we didn't even know what that was.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: yeah.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654: they
put it on their plan, and obviously
they'll take it out of any royalties or
residuals, but was helpful to, you know,
it felt like we had a partner that was
interested in the film and not just us.
Um, figure out, you know, taking
advantage of a, of a first time filmmaker.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: Yeah.
And with that one specifically, there's
a lot of places that will tell you
they can't even insure a movie unless
it's over a million or 2 million.
They'll just say, let's.
We don't do that, but you look at your
deliverables and it says, you know,
well, that there's a conversation
you can have before you start filming
before your budget is locked to say,
what are we doing with the, you know,
like, Hey, do we really need this?
Are you guys covering it?
Are we covering it?
Okay.
Well, who can we work
with who will cover it?
Because I've talked to three
people and none of them do movies
under a million dollars, right?
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654: Yeah.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654:
You're again, like you've talked
about, you're just treating people
as partners to say, okay, this
is an outcome that has to happen.
How do we get it done?
And that's filmmaking in a nutshell, like
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
That's every day of filmmaking.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654:
every day.
So get used to that.
And those conversations, if
they're uncomfortable for you,
just kind of shift to, you know,
Hey, I'm talking to partners,
not enemies and competitors here.
Like we're all in this to
have a successful outcome.
We all want this to be massively
successful and profitable so we
can all keep making more movies.
How do we do this together?
What's the best way to do this?
And yeah, I've always found that those
distributors will work with you because
if they've already said, we want this
movie subtext is we're going to help get
it to the point where we can actually
distribute it or else what's the point.
So use them and rely on
them and work with them a
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
Darren, that's our list.
Those are 10 items.
Uh, feel free to, you know, share
with us other things that we may have
missed or what your experiences have
been, uh, you know, as an independent
filmmaker, these are things that
we have to be responsible for.
And I think our films are better for it.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654:
hundred percent.
That's a good list, man.
Thanks for putting that together.
This is going to be a super valuable
resource for filmmakers that I
know I'm going to be pointing to
over and over again and maybe even
referring back to because as we start
producing movies, you know, I'm, I'm
going to not be doing this stuff.
Like, that's not my.
The best use of my time as the
producer slash executive producer.
So that needs to be part of the
conversation with the post supervisor
and the music supervisor and the lawyer
and all these things to say, look,
I want you to handle all this stuff.
Like I'll verify that it's there,
but like, I'm not, I can't spend
the time going and hunting it down.
Like it's your job.
So do your job all the way through.
And then you're responsible for getting
those things into the deliverables folder.
And.
You know, that's how I'm kind of
thinking about it from where I'm
standing and approaching 2025 is like
more of an executive producer and less
of a boots on the ground responsible
for every aspect of the film producer.
It's like, okay, well, those are
conversations I need to have with the
producer and with the team to say,
you guys are responsible for this.
So if there's not a plan in place,
you should think about it now
before we greenlight this movie.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654: And
it may seem like overkill, but I can tell
you, uh, you know, I've done, Several,
you know, eight movies, and there is
not one that I've released that has not
resulted in some sort of, uh, I don't
want to say lawsuit, but certainly emails
or whatever, where there have, have
been reasons that the, these, the, the
paperwork and the, um, all of the, the
rights agreements and things like that
have been in place, have been questioned.
And so it's not overkill.
It's a, it's been very, very helpful
and, uh, it can, it solves a lot of.
know, it stops a lot of battles before
they start to be able to say, yeah,
here's, here's our agreements or
here's our rights here's the contract.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654:
There are certainly things within our
industry that I feel could benefit
from changing, but there's also things
that have been around for 120 years
that like, they're there for a reason.
And there's a reason everybody does
them the same way because it's It's a
system that hasn't yet been improved
upon or else we would do it that way.
And so I think the deliverables
and chain of title and all those
things have a long history of being
very essential in our industry.
And so you've got to take it seriously.
Got to take responsibility for it and
ensure that you've got it handled.
That's just part of being a
good producer, a good filmmaker.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654: Okay.
Uh, I agree.
Um, okay.
Let's shift gears.
We're going to wrap up.
Uh, this has been an amazing episode.
Should we cover box office real quick?
There's we're, we're recording this
on, uh, Sundance Eve, um, you know, uh,
Sundance Film Festival starts this week.
So j January's always such an interesting
time for the box office 'cause
there's just not a lot coming out.
And we're seeing that with our number one
movie again is Mufasa, uh, the fifth Week
in Theaters and it's the number one movie
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
$15 million on the
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: Mm hmm.
Yeah.
Estimated 15 and a half
mil, which is super low.
One of the lowest number
ones that we've seen.
And then the box office is 85.
So it was like a good weekend.
Uh, the highest of January, except for
January three through five was 98 million.
So the second highest of the month,
but yeah, it's interesting to only
two releases in the top 10, two new
releases in the top 10, the 10th place.
Baby girl, almost two and a half
million dollars to be the 10th spot.
Again, it just speaks to if you want
to have the best chance possible to get
to the top 10 with your indie film on a
limited release, do it on a big weekend,
like a, a wicked or a Deadpool or a inside
out to like find those and target those.
The dates are probably already posted
online and say, we're doing it.
We're getting, we're releasing that week.
Um, and only like three other new
releases and then we have Sing Sing
doing a 2025 re release, which is
for, you know, for the awards, right?
We've got,
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
is kind of fun.
I mean, you look at a lot of these movies
and it that people are doing, studios are
doing their awards campaigns, everything
from Sing, sing to, you look at the top.
You know, 6 through 10, you've
got Nosferatu, Complete Unknown,
Wicked, Baby Girl, Brutalist.
Those are all awards contenders.
Gladiator 2, September 5, Wild Robot
is even in, you know, sticking around.
So, these are all films that
you're going to see nominated
in the next couple of weeks.
Actually, Thursday is, is
a announcement for Oscars.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: um,
the last little note that I'm just
kind of paying attention to here is
that there's a, there's a handful of
movies that are, that have been out
for more than three months, right?
Conclave, 13 weeks, Onora, 14
weeks, Substance, 18 weeks,
The Wild Robot, 17 weeks.
These are movies that are still playing.
Wild Robot's still over
a thousand theaters.
The Substance is still on 481, Onora, 536.
Like, some of that is because of awards
that they, they may have bumped it,
but still like, That's crazy staying
power, especially to, to open up in
like September, October, and then
hang on through November, December.
Like it just, it's just
so cool to see that.
And they're still making good money.
You know, like wild robot
still made 400 per theater.
Conclave 335, like some of these, uh, a
real pain 12 weeks in, they're still on
55 theaters and 1400 per screen average.
Like that's for an indie film.
You'd want that for your opening weekend.
Like the fact that
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654: good.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: 10
weeks in 12 weeks in is like amazing.
So man, a couple of these films are worth
kind of diving into and going, well, what,
what was it that allowed them that kind
of staying power three, even four months.
Of times.
I mean, substance 18 weeks
is like, that's a quarter.
That's a quarter of the year
or more third of the year.
I don't know.
Don't do public math folks,
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654: Yeah.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654:
but yeah, awesome.
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
I think it is.
I think it's a good, it's definitely
a good time for movie goers.
Cause lots of awards worthy content is out
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654: Yeah,
garrett-batty_1_01-21-2025_100654:
Okay, man.
daren-smith_1_01-21-2025_100654:
I believe so.
I believe so.
We should, uh, get some
thumbs up from the audience.
How are you guys feeling?
Was that a good episode?
Let us know, like go over and do
the thing that all the podcasts say,
and like go over to wherever you
listen to it and leave us a rating
and review and leave a comment.
And if you have questions that you'd
like us to answer or topics you'd
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just head over to three coin pro.
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and be a part of the community of
filmmakers we're building here.
Thanks for listening.
Thanks for sharing it.
It's a good one.
See you, Garrett.
Thanks, man.
Thank you for listening to this
episode of Truly Independent.
To join us on the journey,
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