Truly Independent: Demystifying the Indie Film Journey

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Welcome to Season three
of Truly Independent.

I'm Garrett Batty, alongside
my co-host Daren Smith.

Each week we'll go in depth with guests,
industry experts, and we'll even share

our own experiences, all with the goal of
demystifying the independent film process.

This season, it's all about the
script from the first spark of an

idea to a polished final draft,
breaking it down for scheduling,

budgeting, and ultimately shooting.

We'll walk through every step it
takes to get from page to production.

Welcome to Truly Independent.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Garrett.

Hello sir.

How the heck are ya?

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
Hey, good happy January.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824:
yes, it's January.

I hope the holidays were good for you.

I've, I've missed our conversation
and we weren't, we, I was, uh, I was

doing something last week and you
were doing something last week, and

so now we're back, which feels right.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824: I was,
yeah, and I'll plug what I was doing.

I was on a cruise, uh, kind of a
family reunion cruise, but it was

with a group that I, that we've gone
on and, and actually had premieres

of two of our films on this.

And so this year I was there just
as an attendee, which was great,

but we still had 750 people there
asking, Hey, what's your next project?

When, when are you gonna show a film?

And so we promoted, uh, potential
film for next year's cruise.

So a lot, uh, a lot more about
that, uh, at a future episode.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824:
I like it.

Very cool.

It's, it seems to be a strategy
that's working, so keep it up.

That's awesome.

Um, all right.

We got a fun topic today.

We've been, we've both been in the
throes of financing and fundraising

and finding collaborators.

Um, and so the question that's
come up a lot is like, how are

you getting these meetings?

How are you preparing for and showing
up and getting these meetings and

turning 'em into successful things?

Um.

One question as we kinda kick off
or give context to the topic today.

One question I get often is, how are
you convincing people to give you money?

And my answer is, that
is not what I'm doing.

I'm not convincing people of anything.

If there's alignment, if
there's existing demand.

Then it's, that's what I'm looking for.

And so as we go through today, we've
got a couple of ideas of how to go

about finding the people, how to prepare
for the meeting and how to show up

in the meeting to, to really make it
as successful an outcome as possible.

But with that in mind, that like if
they're not a film investor, trying

to convince them to become one is a
really, really, really hard thing to do.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

Well, I mean, yeah, it is.

There's a good, uh,
lots of talking points.

I have a, a few different talking points
more related to writing and stuff like

that, like what to do in those meetings.

With your script or your pitch
deck, but, but yes, you're right.

The idea that nobody, this
episode is definitely not how to

convince people give you money.

That's not what filmmakers do.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
Hopefully that's not

what we should be doing.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824:
Hopefully, well, I think people find a

lot of struggle because they think that
the secret is you get a meeting and you

show up and you razzle dazzle and you've
got the materials, and you've got this

confidence, and you've got this pitch,
and you've got this passion for the story

in the movie that you're gonna make.

And that's what.

Tips people over and convinces them
to, to join you in the journey.

And I just haven't seen that happen.

No matter how convincing you are,
no matter how passionate you are,

it still has to align with the
demand and what they're looking for.

So, um, you know, this
kind of gets us into it.

So let's dive into the topic a little bit.

Um, first talking point that
popped up as we were discussing

and planning this episode was,
um, the script is not the product.

Confidence is the product.

And I would add
inevitability is the product.

And so I was at the Utah International
Film Fest, um, last Saturday, two

Saturdays ago, and on their pitch
panel, which you and I did last

year, um, and it was a blast and
there were some really good pitches.

Um.

But I told a couple of people after the
fact, like the script is not the currency.

That's not what you're selling.

It's something way bigger than that.

It's, and if you're just writing
scripts in order to sell them and

you're not wrapped and you're in Utah
and you've never had a produced project

before, that's a really tall order
of a script to give you all those

things that you want in your career.

Um, I don't think that's the actual
currency in those conversations.

I think the currency is.

Partnering with you or the story itself.

It's not the physical or the digital
script that you're sending to a, a

collaborator or an investor or a producer.

It's the story and who you
are and, and what you're, um,

able to bring to the table.

So, curious your thoughts on that.

I mean, you, I know you were at that
pitch fest last year as well, not to

focus on the pitch fest as aspect,
but like, do you see the script as

the thing or is it something else?

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
Well, I think I, it's so tricky and

it's almost a chicken and eggs and a.

Um, because to, to engage in those
conversations, uh, where you're raising

money for a project there, there does
need to be a script or some sort of proof

of, you know, proof of interest or proof
of concept of, this is a legitimate film

maker, or this is a person with a project
because there are a million ideas and we

get, I get pitches weekly, if not daily.

Hey, here's an idea, or here's a, here's
a link to a cool story, or whatever it is.

And it's great.

And I'm so, um, again, very flattered and,
and appreciative that people would take

the time to send to, to say, Hey, this
might be a good movie if you make it, it's

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
But unless there's a script,

like, you know, the there that's
a certain threshold that's already

been crossed to say, oh yes.

Not only does this idea work.

But it works as a, you
know, in a movie format.

Um, you're right, uh, to show up
then with a script, I, I also get

scripts emailed to me or sent to me

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
it was like, you know what?

I don't know this individual.

I don't know who this, who this is
from, or what they've done or whatever.

And for me to take two hours to read
the script and then kind of process and

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824:
Yeah, it's homework.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
yeah, it's homework.

And, uh, I would much rather
invest, you're right in a,

in a person with confidence.

First, and then let's
take a look at the script.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

And, and confidence in the
story you're trying to tell.

Right.

So it, one thing that was very
different from last year's pitch

fest to this year's is I did not
ask anyone to send me their script.

I said, send me a treatment because
I asked what, I don't know, five or

six people last year to send me a
script, and I got to two of them.

Because I had other things that
were more pressing and more, uh,

deserved my focus and attention
than reading those spec scripts.

I, I did not have a need
for more spec scripts.

Last year, I had a need for
financing and investment, so

that's what I devoted my time to.

But this year, you know, there
were four or five stories that

I was like, oh, that's cool.

I'd love to see what
you've done with that.

And what I'm looking for is an easier
to digest version of the story.

And do you know what the story is and
can you tell it in a compelling way?

I can get that in a three
to 15 page treatment.

Way faster than the script
and so, or the screenplay.

So rather than me understanding if
you know how to format properly and

know how to, you know, have good
dialogue, that's all really fixable.

If the story works, if the story
is broken, it doesn't matter

how good the dialogue is or.

Perfectly spell checked your screenplay
is like, that's not the thing.

So that was a, that was something
that I consciously was like telling

writers afterwards that were coming
up and asking me about feedback and

questions and how do I send you my stuff?

I was like, send me a treatment.

'cause I just wanna know what the
story is and what do you think it

is, and is it in alignment with what
I'm trying to do storytelling wise?

And we'll see.

I haven't received any yet, so we'll see.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824: I
think Daren, I think that the it, I'm

thinking back to the project that you
are currently on and the one that I'm

currently on, you know, with Brotherhood
where your interest was peaked,

when Ross an independent filmmaker.

Said, Hey, I have an idea.

You know, something needs to be done.

you did have that initial
conversation, okay, what is this?

And yes, there's, you identified there
is something here, but your next, your

follow up question is where, where are
you on the script or what do you need?

And so Ross then had to provide a script

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
he did so within four to six weeks.

And so I guess be mindful of that.

The script might, maybe isn't the
product that, uh, that you're.

That is getting you in the door.

But know that once you get

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
that's the next question.

Like, where's the script?

Where are you on that?

And if you go, nah, I don't know
yet, or I'm writing it, then you

know, you're delaying per pot
perhaps, uh, some action to be taken.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

Yeah, that's a good point.

Um, and I think every project is probably
a little different, but it benefits you.

To know where you're at in
the relationship when you're

having the conversation, and
what's the next step, right?

So Ross wasn't coming to me asking me
to produce the movie because if he were

doing that and he hadn't written a script
yet, I'd be like, you're too early.

Like, that's not the
conversation we're having.

The conversation was,
tell me about your fund.

I have this story, I wanna see
if there's alignment with you and

with what you're trying to do.

And that was the conversation.

So then literally the next step was
me going to the script reading four

or five weeks later and going, oh, he
did it like he delivered on the story.

So let's keep the conversation going.

So knowing where you're at in the
process, and if you, like you said, if

you don't have a script, don't start
asking for investor meetings and pitches.

Start relationship building and say, Hey,
I'd love to talk to you about an idea.

I have to see if it's in alignment
with who you are as a investor, as a

producer, as a director, as an actor, and
that's okay for relationship building.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824: Okay.

So then, uh, the next talking
point then that I wanted to

bring up is the, uh, script.

It's okay then if it's flawed, it's
okay that it's not your, you know, 13th

draft picture lock or, you know, locked
pages script, We're using the script

to show that you are, uh, are capable
of, you know, putting a project out

there that aligns with the potential
investors' interests, uh, that is

within the scope of what you wanna do
that you know, achievable locations.

A cast, but it doesn't have to prove
that you are, you know, that you've

written some masterpiece that,
uh, is without typos and, and that

honestly, that isn't a little bit
flexible and able to be changed.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah,
I got a script, uh, a month ago that

I finally read over the holidays.

That was a sci-fi futuristic
ai, uh, faith-based story.

It's winning awards and it's doing
really well as like a, as a short or

as a, a pilot episode for a a series.

And he asked if he could send it over and
I was like, yeah, that sounds awesome.

Like I would love to see
what you did with that.

And they really delivered, like, they
did a great job on the script, but scope

wise, it was like, no, this is gonna take.

You know, if it's per episode, it's like
a few million, like 2 million an episode.

If it's a feature, it's four to 7 million.

You know, for a feature that's outside
of the scope of what I'm doing, like

I, I don't have a visual effects budget
in any of my budgets that I'm doing.

You know, like that's not it.

And this is a.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: This
is a big, uh, thing, but it's super

cool and I'm like, man, I would love to
help you, or I'd love to watch it, but

like, I, I can't do it through the fund.

So what we're looking for
is like, what's the scope?

Can it be done?

So I got another script three, four
months ago, and in this, in the delivery

email of the script, here's the script.

Here's what I'm looking to do it for.

And this is a, uh, an actress who
has not produced, ever, not directed,

ever, hasn't had a script ever
produced, and the stuff that she's

done is local and super low budget.

And in the context of the
delivering the script to me said,

I wanna do this at $30 million.

I was like.

Okay.

Like I just, I haven't read the
script yet 'cause it's a mismatch

with the scope that I'm doing.

So why devote two hours to, to doing it?

So that's why I haven't read it.

Sorry if you're listening, but like,
you know, it's like, oh, 30 million,

I don't even know how to begin to
help you with a $30 million project.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

I think that's fair to say, um,
that way you're not wasting her

time and she's not wasting yours.

Daren to follow up on that, there's a.

on my wall of a, uh, that started
out with one of these meetings.

It was somebody that came in with a
script and, um, I, it definitely aligned

the type of movies that I like to make,
uh, except for this script was, yeah, it

was probably about a $10 million movie.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Hmm.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824: I said,
this is not the type of movie I can make.

Uh, I don't have access to
that, an independent filmmaker.

I really liked that, you know,
he, he proved his capability as a.

Screenwriter and, and, um, again,
somebody that had similar interests.

And so said, I'd like to take this
section this area of your script

and let's turn that into a movie.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Hmm.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
And, uh, and we did.

And that movie is distributed
by Samuel Goldwyn films now.

So, um, the, again, it wasn't about
him coming in with the perfect script,

it was about making sure that we.

You know that as a filmmaker and
he as a writer, were on the same

page, kind of had a similar vision
and we were able to work together.

It was a great collaborative experience.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

That's awesome.

Um, one thing again that came up about
this, or at this pitch fest was the idea

that your pitch, whether that's a log line
or a pitch at a pitch fest or the trailer

for the movie, you're making a promise to
the audience and you're promising genre.

And audiences understand
what a genre is, right?

They go, oh, this is a mystery,
or this is a thriller, or

this is a faith-based drama.

Or, or, or, and as soon as you say
the genre, they go, okay, great.

If I'm gonna watch a mystery,
uh, a Ryan Johnson knives

out, you know, th the third.

Movie in a trilogy.

I kind of know what to expect.

Benoit Blanc's gonna show up.

He's gonna try and solve an insolvable
crime, and there's gonna be twists and

turns, and there's gonna be people who
are showing up one way but are actually

doing something else in the background.

Like there's all these expectations
and obligatory scenes and genre

things that you're promising.

And one comment I kept making to some
of the, the screenwriters there was,

you said this, but then you pitched
this, and those are different things.

So if you're gonna say it's a horror.

There's no death and there's no goriness
or there's no like, there's no monster.

Like whatever it is, it's not
a horror, it's a thriller.

That's fine, but pitch it as a thriller.

And that comment came
up time and time again.

So when you're delivering a script
to a producer, to an investor,

you're, you're also saying, I
know how to deliver on this.

I can do it.

The alignment of all those things is
like something that's really top of mind

for me as I'm going through a script
and thinking about producing or funding.

Do they get it?

And if they don't, then it's like,
oh, we have to have a conversation.

Or sorry, it's not for me.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824: Daren,
how is that, how, on your current project

or for, for you as a filmmaker now and
not, uh, somebody receiving pitches,

what's, what's your action on that?

Like where you've presented
brotherhood, you're getting

ready to present it to potential
donors or investors or audiences.

What are you.

How are you applying that?

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

What's interesting is I'm not really
pitching the, the beats of the

story, like I'm not trying to help
them understand what the movie is

from beginning to middle to end.

I'm saying, this is a movie
about, and this is who it's for.

And this is the alignment
that I'm looking for.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824: yes.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824:
so a lot of it is, is focusing in

on who I'm talking to and saying,
oh, if you're looking, if you're an

investor, you're looking for certain
things, and we'll get to this.

I think this is another bullet point
I'm getting ahead on myself, but.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
no, I that,

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Maybe
it's a nice transition into it, like,

um, the idea that different money needs
different versions of the pitch or

different collaborators, whoever you're
talking to, you know, if you're trying

to get a director to come on board of
your project, you're not gonna pitch

them about returns and comparables
and, you know, distribution plans.

Maybe you'll talk about
distribution, I don't know.

But you're gonna talk about the
budget that they get and how

much time they have and the type
of movie you're trying to make.

To see if there's alignment there.

But if you just talk about the creative
stuff with investors who are concerned

more about return on capital and, um,
what movies is it like, and have you done

it before and what are you gonna do for
distribution, that's a mismatch as well.

And so whoever you're talking
to needs a different pitch.

It's the same movie.

It's the same offer, but
different ways into it.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
I guess, yeah.

Okay.

Um, one of the things that I'm learning,
I guess, with current projects in past.

And, uh, is that to avoid that, you
know, your script again, probably is not

going to be read by most of the people
you pitched to, but it's your, it's

your key to, it's your kind of the way
to unlock the door to get that meeting.

now you've got the pitch and you're
pitching your potential investor

avoid, and I have to, to constantly
remind myself, the plot dump.

Like, don't, nobody, they don't want
to know in the 15 minute meeting your

movie is about as far as the plot goes.

Um, want to know who the movie's for,
why it matters now, what they're gonna

feel while walking outta the theater.

And boy, if you can put that in a
pitch and say, here's the script.

need to read it.

I mean, here's the script.

Great.

But here's what this movie is.

Then I think that those meetings
go a lot better than trying to

rush through 14 minutes of plot and

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
minute of any questions.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

It goes back to the currency is not the
screenplay, the currency is the story.

And if you can find the way in that
connects to who you're talking to, whether

they want an emotional experience, whether
they're thinking about marketing and

distribution, whether they're, they're
thinking about return on investment.

You can tailor that.

You can add different
layers on top of the pitch.

And so as you're preparing the pitch to
go out into the marketplace, you're gonna

need a bunch of different collaborators.

You need people who can
help with financing.

You need people who can help with
development, people who can help

with the production, people who can
help with marketing and distribution.

And that's at minimum,
there's those five areas.

And so.

The, it's probably five different
versions of the pitch that you've gotta

prepare, because if it's just story,
okay, the marketing team's going well,

what's the budget and who's it for?

And who's the audience
and how do we reach them?

And can we do that in a profitable way?

And you go, I don't know.

It's like, okay.

So that's why screenwriters typically
aren't pitching marketers on,

or distributors on their movie.

They're pitching financiers
and producers, right.

Um, and maybe directors as well.

They get PE attachments early on.

So knowing who you're pitching
and what's in it for them.

Is a just good business sense like that.

You should always be thinking
about what's in it for them.

But it's, it's what do they care about?

What do they want?

What is it that they are looking for
that they can't get on their own?

And your script, your story,
your movie is the solution to the

thing that they're trying to get.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah,
it, it's a great way to, honestly, to

kind of test response that your film
is gonna get to potential audiences.

Um, so, you know, if you're, like
your example of, you know, I'm

gonna stand up and pitch this.

I got a horror movie
about, you know, this.

Kidnapping that takes place wait a second.

Is there death?

Is there carnage?

That's not a horror movie.

It might be a thriller.

so you don't need to change a movie.

You don't need to change the script,
you go, okay, then as we make this

movie, I'm not going to position
it and sell it as a horror movie.

Um, uh, you know, if it's the
story you want to tell or if you

do wanna make a horror movie, maybe
you do need to change your script.

I guess the point is you can test,
uh, the audience response for your

movie based just on, on doing pitches
and gauging their response from that.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

And one thing that you anyone can do
anytime, anywhere is test the log line

with people, and the log line is as
few words as possible to say something

that gets them excited about leaning in
and going, oh, tell me more about that.

Right?

It doesn't have to be the full.

Thing.

It doesn't, it's not a two minute pitch.

It's a two sentence pitch at most.

And you're saying, you know,
there's a, there's a project that

I'm looking at and it's an Adam and
Eve allegory with humanoid robots.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824: Okay.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Oh, whoa.

Okay.

Tell me more.

Like I, you peaked my interest and
that's what the log line is for.

But if your log line can't
pit pique someone's interest.

Then don't go to start writing the script.

This, you know, you don't know what
the core hook of the thing is yet.

So test the log line a hundred
times with people and dial in on

something where half or more of the
people go, oh, that's interesting.

That sounds cool.

That's, oh, cool.

What?

You know, tell me more.

Well, that's where I'm at.

Oh, okay.

Cool.

Well, let me know if you got
more, you know, but yeah.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
uh, a hundred percent agree.

My, my, my example of that from
personal experience is, uh, which

we, we try to do in this podcast.

Not just dole out advice, but like,
Hey, this is what we're currently doing.

But, um, uh.

Is, uh, this, this, the, the film
I'm currently working on right now is

called The Pearl, and uh, it's a script
that's done and it's a kind of this

faith-based as, as, as I typically do.

But, um, it's a true story,
historical story anyway.

As I'm pitching it, as I'm telling people,
I just, you know, I spent a week on this

cruise with seven 50 people that were
asking, okay, what's your next project?

And in these conversations
with two and three people, I'm

testing out different log lines.

as I was developing the story years
ago, um, I initially pitched it as,

Hey, here's this historical drama about
a true story about how this group of

religionists were able to, uh, uh, over.

Come these challenges put on them
by an oppressive government, you

know, and people kind of nod and
like, oh, okay, that sounds nice.

And you know, but then I started
to say, but it's a comedy.

And then people are
leaning in, that again.

Did

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: It what?

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
And I go, okay, that's, there we go.

That's the hook.

Now I'm gonna run in that direction.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
as people are responding to a pitch.

Then you're like, okay, that's the type of
movie that perhaps would get more interest

or, or resonate with more audiences or,
or break through, you know, beyond what

its independent budget would allow.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

And if you only ever pitch
pitch producers, you're

only gonna get one type of.

Um, audience to respond to it.

And if you're only pitching
audience, you're not gonna know

how the producers are responding.

So like, when you're at the log line
or idea stage, I think you're pitching

everybody and, and you've got your,
your writer's group, which is fine.

But like, if they all go, this is
amazing, but it doesn't actually

resonate with an audience.

It's like, okay, great script, but you're
not gonna be able to get an audience

to show up to the, to see it anywhere.

So you need all the pieces.

Um.

So I'm, uh, that's very cool.

I'm glad that that's been
your experience as well.

It's been mine as well.

In 2016, I had my first experience with
this of like just pitching a, an idea

for a script that I hadn't written yet.

And I had an executive producer that
had been interested in working with us.

So I said, Hey, can I just, um, test an
idea with you, something I'm thinking of?

And she goes, yeah.

So I send it over.

I think I texted it over.

It was, it wasn't even
like a, a in-person thing.

And she goes, who have you shared?

Who else have you shared this with?

I said, you're the first.

She said, great.

Don't tell anybody else I want this.

I was like, oh, okay.

Like when you, when you have the
right thing, it catalyzes action.

Like people lean in and
go, oh, tell me more.

Or they go.

I want it, or, or various, you
know, any, anything in that spectrum

of, I'm not interested to, I wanna
fund this thing could happen.

If you get the right, if you get
the right uh story, the right hook,

the right pitch, the right log line,
wherever you're at in the process,

that's what you're looking for.

Does it move people?

Does it create tension?

Get them to lean in and
say that the, the magic.

Phrase that I'm looking for in
almost some version of in every

conversation is, how can I help?

Or what do you need?

And if I can get someone to
say, oh, well what do you need?

Uh, then sky's the limit.

I can go, well, what I think aligns
with you the most is something like

this, and then I can pitch the actual
offer of the, I'm gonna, I'm asking

you for money in exchange for this, or
I'm asking you, exchange for, or some

marketing help or some guidance or some
distribution or whatever it might be.

But it's, I'm waiting for that
before I even get into those details.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824: I
think, I think tho those, that's very,

very insightful advice to say, okay,
how do I take, how do I make, how do

I use my script now to really get,
you know, take it to the next step.

Um.

Which leads us to our next point, which
is, that was a terrible segue, but,

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Sorry.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
no, that was not you, that

was me trying to tie that in.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824:
Oh, I, I blur the last two together,

so now we're on number five.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824: yeah.

Okay.

Number five.

And our, the, the talking point
is that the script creates

momentum when you control access

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

What do you mean by that?

Because you put that on there and
I'm like, okay, you're gonna have

to explain this one to me, Garrett.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
Well, I'm gonna tell you we're using

that right now to control access.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Nice.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
Um, we have a script.

People want to see the script.

You know, we've, we've
given the pitch out.

Say, Hey, here's our story about
this group of religionists that

overcomes a, an oppressive government,
but it's a comedy heist movie.

And suddenly people are going,
okay, I've never seen that.

I'm interested.

Send me the script.

Okay, wait a second.

No, we control the access.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Hmm.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824: what
I don't want is to just send the script.

I want to get a FaceTime meeting with
them, uh, or invite them to a read

through and have them hear my pitch.

so that's, that's how
I'm controlling access.

So

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Gotcha.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824: I'm
driving down to a potential donors.

A in, in Las Vegas, and we will read
through sections of the script because

I know, and you know that when somebody
sends the script, somebody reads it.

It's not a,

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
know, you might scan through it a

couple times, or donors or investors
are notoriously, and they'll admit

this, don't know how to read scripts.

They, they're un that's why you're the
filmmaker and they're the investor,

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yep.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
uh, because they, they do not have

that creative approach to filmmaking.

If you give me a blueprint to a house.

I go, uh, I can't live here, it
might be the most nice mansion,

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

Gotcha.

So I read it as your controlling
access, meaning like limiting how many

people can read it, but you're talking
about controlling how they access it.

So in what format are they
gonna be able to engage with or.

Read or hear or participate in the
script so that it aligns with who

they are and where they're at in
the process and what you're trying

to have a conversation about.

Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
Yes, we're gonna invite them to go

deeper on this project with us not to.

Here's this burden of read the
script and tell me what you think.

I'm gonna be in the room, read, reading
through sections of the script, me

and my, uh, with my partner on this,
who, who's the lead actor in it.

So not only do they feel like,
okay, we're really invested in this

project, and, but they get a sense
of what the script is that they may

or may not know how to interpret.

Just if they're reading
through the script.

Plus, then there's this access type
feeling of like, holy cow, we are

in the room now with the people
that are gonna make this happen.

I wanna continue to be involved in that.

in this certain case, our, our, our donor.

Is going to want to invite their
friends as well, or their participants,

others to participate because they now
have access and they're not, and I'm

not gonna leave a script with them.

They're gonna say, they're
gonna say, I wanna do that again

with potential other people.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

No, that's brilliant.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
it's, we're stealing a

page outta your book Daren.

'cause it's exactly what
you and Ross have been.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824:
I was gonna say like that's, that

aligns really well with how Ross
was controlling access to the script

throughout the last four months Is.

He was to the point where he
wouldn't even, he wouldn't play a

music track and sing along with it.

That wasn't it.

He wouldn't use a digital piano.

It had to be an acoustic physical
piano in a room so that people could

feel the acoustic waves hitting
them in the chest when he played

harder or when he played softer.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
Correct.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: And so.

Whether it was a room with 120 people or
a room with 12 people, it didn't matter.

It like we would, he would pay money
himself out of pocket to rent a

standup, you know, baby grand and have
it tuned before the thing, so that

that's how the access was controlled.

So that totally aligns.

That's awesome.

Love that one.

Yeah, I think.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
I am excited.

I'm excited about it.

And again, it's, it's
this, it's a sequence.

It's this process.

It's not just a single ask.

Here's my script.

Do you want to interest?

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824:
Yeah, it's not a transaction.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824: this
road and, and we'll go as far as uh,

uh, as far with them as they want to go.

If they wanna say, ah,
thank you for doing that.

We're, you know.

Next time, just send the script.

That's okay.

We, let's make sure they align and,
and, but I think that they need to

know that we don't just send out
scripts that's not like that, that's

an access point to the project.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Mm-hmm.

I love that.

I also think it's important, and I'm
sure we've said it before, but like.

Producers, investors, donors, people.

We're not ATMs.

It's not, you put in the right pin
number and you get money out that

it's not a transaction, it's, it's a.

Invitation to join and
partner on a project.

And that's a long-term thing.

And so I've never had a pitch or
an experience with an investor

or a distributor or anybody where
I've gone, Hey, let me send you

this, and if you're interested, you
know, here's a link to send money.

Like that's just not.

How the conversation goes.

And so when you're doing this stuff, a,
you're spending more time with people.

'cause if they're coming to a read
through, you just spent an hour or two

with them, that's way more valuable
than even a hundred emails back

and forth time together in person.

You can feel each other out.

You can see if there's chemistry there
or resonance there, or alignment there.

Way better than through email.

And so a lot, and it's, it's.

Reliant that you then understand this
is the start of a relationship and

there's gonna be a lot of follow ups.

And that's gonna take months,
sometimes years for people to finally

come along and say, Hey, I'm ready.

Or Hey, this sounds like the
right project, or, Hey, I'm in.

So right now, this week,
everything I'm doing this week

is kind of Sundance focused.

So the event that I'm gonna put
together, probably a lunch or

a dinner, something like that.

And then.

Meetings with people who I've had
emails with over the last three

months, but I've never met in person.

I know they're gonna be here in our
hometown or our home state for Sundance,

so I, they, they want a meeting with me.

I want a meeting with them because
we know that we're gonna make so much

more progress on this conversation by
spending 20, 30 minutes an hour together.

Over a drink or over a meal.

Then if we just keep emailing
back and forth and it's this

nudge reminder, bumping this up in
your inbox kind of relationship.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
Yeah, I love it.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Awesome.

Okay, we got one more.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
yeah, take it away.

What

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: I like
this one a lot because again, it goes

back to the idea of what's in it for
them or what is it that they really want

and aligning with the existing demand.

So this last idea is make it
easy for someone to say yes.

And part of that starts with
understanding who they are and how it

aligns with your project, and making
sure that you're pitching them that

sort of version, or that you're, you're
translating it in that way for them.

Um, but your script and your
pitch should remove friction.

Not create friction.

So I experienced this, I keep referencing
this pitch fest, but it's kind of

like what we're talking about here.

There were pitches that created tension,
uh, sorry, not tension, but friction.

So scr pitches that, you know,
there was one that comes to mind.

He was pitching a modern
western, and I go, what is that?

And that's friction.

As soon as my, my eyebrows furled and
my face scrunched up and I'm going, huh?

Like, that's friction.

That's a thing that I, I missed the
next 15 seconds of what he said because

I was going, what's a modern western
like, is it, is it a modern set time or.

It's like I could, I still don't know
what it's, so it's like, great, that's

a cute word that you used in your pitch,
but it actually created friction for me as

someone who was considering your project.

And so what happened was.

This three or four times people would
pitch and it would create friction.

And then all of us on the panel
would start asking questions

to remove the friction.

And then once we removed all the
friction, we're like, oh, that's

actually a really cool project.

You just pitched it really poorly
and not in a funny, joking like

attacking way, but in a, oh, your
pitch does not align with the story.

And here you gotta take all the
things we just said as feedback.

And remove all that friction.

I didn't have that language, but I
like this idea of removing friction

and making it easier for people
to get it so that they can say yes

if that's what they want to do.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
I think it is.

Uh, yeah, that's right on.

And that's your script or your pitch,
it should be very, very clear and clear

budget range, a clear timeline, a clear
next step, including the invitation.

Right.

So for this read through next week, gonna
go down and read the thing and read, you

know, read sections of the script and
I've got a presentation put together.

if we walk out going, oh,
wasn't that a fun evening?

And we all had enjoyed a story
and had cookies together, thanks,

uh, then, then that's a fail.

It's a waste of time, but it's
like, here's what our next step is.

We would like you to participate,
would you consider a $25,000

donation to this film?

Or,

are there people that you, that didn't
come this evening that you would like, uh,

us to do a read through for in two weeks?

know, and maybe we follow up with you.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
Whatever it is, a clear invitation.

Uh, so yes, you're eliminating friction
and you're making it easier for someone

to say, yeah, I'm a part of this project.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824:
That's really cool.

And I, I do think that's important
to know what the next step is.

Whether it's the ask for them
to say, oh, I'm here to ask you

to invest in my project and.

What feels like the right amount for
you, or they might ask you what's next?

And you might say, oh, well, I'm in
conversations with three directors

and four producers, and the plan is
to raise the money in Q1 and shoot

it in Q2 and have it out in Q4.

You know, if you know the answer to
that, even if it's, you're not locking

yourself into the, it's not a commitment
that you're making, you're not signing

an agreement that says, I will hold
to these dates, but if you don't know.

Then that creates
friction and uncertainty.

It's like, well, if you
don't know, I don't know.

It's not my job to know as the investor
how you're gonna make the movie.

So if they say, well, great, how,
you know, how do I get my money

back and how long does it take?

Which is a very standard
question in these conversations.

If you didn't have that in the
pitch and they're asking it now.

And your answer is, I don't know.

We hope to make it this year.

We hope that we then put it in festivals.

We hope that somebody picks it up and
we hope that it gets released somehow.

Well, theatrical or
streaming, I don't know.

It'll, it's up to them.

Well, you just created four
areas where they could easily

say no because you don't know.

And that's too much uncertainty for an
investor who's thinking about putting

money into an already risky, uh, space.

So.

Being able to think through some of
those answers is really gonna help you

in the preparation for those meetings
to be able to say, look, my hope, my

plan is this, this, this, and this.

And you know, when I'm pitching investors
on the fund, I go look our, we call

the money and 12 to 18 months later,
the movies and theaters and you're

starting to see a return on your capital.

And they go, whoa, that's crazy.

'cause.

There are other LP positions, limited
partner positions in VC funds could

be eight to 15 years before they
start seeing return on capital.

So that's a, not just an order of
magnitude difference, that's that's

way, way, way, way faster and better.

And so I make sure to include
that in the pitch because they

go, oh, that's very different.

So having those answers is essential.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
Uh, Daren.

Those are six.

Great.

Um, I, I don't know, talking points,

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824:
Should we recap it for everybody?

Give them the, the low down
so they can remember it all.

These are six things you can do.

As you're preparing for and pitching, if
that's the phase that you're in, which

is, you know, where you can see Garrett
and I are with our projects and our fund.

So the first one was, the
script is not the product.

Like that's not the currency.

It's your confidence in the story and your
understanding and the alignment there.

Um, using the script to
reduce risk, not prove genius.

So it's not about, look at this
amazing script that I wrote.

It's like, no, this, here's
the scope, here's the budget,

here's how we can pull it off.

We're very confident that we can do it.

Okay, great.

Um, the third and fourth,
which I blurred into one.

So the third one was the pitch.

You're translating it for
people, so it's not a summary

of the entire story, but it's

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824: dump

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824:
it's not a platinum.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
or the pitch isn't the plot dump

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yes.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
has that,

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824: but
yes, the pitch isn't the plot dump.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
is the experience that they're gonna

feel like you're gonna feel this, and
I can tell you this in two minutes.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yep.

And then number four was
that different money needs

different versions of the pitch.

So you gotta be able to translate
their pitch for an investor, for a

donor, for a fund, for a producer,
for a director, for an actor.

Like all of those are different pitches
because they want different things.

So you're gonna build this kind of
core pitch, and then you're gonna

create these different versions
of it for different people.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
Script is the exact same script.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
Five, uh, is a script creates

momentum when you control access.

This one is,

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Hmm.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
key to, to, to me, I think is like

not just sending the script out,
saying, oh, you would like the script.

Let us bring it to you for this exchange.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yep.

You can go with number six.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
uh, number six is, uh, again,

take away the friction.

Make it easy for someone
to say yes, right?

I guess you've, you've, you
summarized it very well, but

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Amazing.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824: with,
with it, with a talking point at the

end, or an invitation, a call to action.

One note on that too,

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
I, I didn't

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824:
I was gonna say, we probably

should say more about that.

'cause both of us were like, uh.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
Well, I just wanna make sure that, um,

in these meetings, uh, know the roles,
like identify the roles early on.

Nobody should be surprised that they, that
you're asking them to be an investor in

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824: Right.

So this read through next week,
the goal, and it's very clear,

it's like I've sent an invite out
saying, you're invited to attend.

A a, uh, read through of a project.

We're going to do this.

We're gonna read through section
of the script, then we're gonna

have a discussion on how this movie
gets made, and you'll be invited to

be a participant in that process.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824: So
nobody's blindsided by, oh wait, you want

me to talk about this movie to my friends,
or You want me to invest in this movie?

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824: And

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yep.

That's uh.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
Knowing that.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824:
That's so key.

And it goes back to the very first
thing of like, oh, I just lost it.

Alignment.

Making sure you're talking to people
who are aligned with what you're doing.

Um, I'm doing, I don't know,
somewhere between 50 and a

hundred connection requests, or
you call it like cold outreach.

Every day.

Every day.

50 to a hundred people that I'm either
reaching out to or following up with.

And

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
a lot work,

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824:
it's a lot of work.

Garrett.

This is why.

Phrasing money is a full-time job
and that doesn't pay very well

because you have to do it at scale.

And what I'm literally doing in
the initial message is saying, I'm

putting together a fund to invest in
indie films that are values-based,

family friendly, whatever.

But it's very clear from the
initial outreach, I'm using

that clarity as, uh, as a.

Divining Rod, like what's the
thing like as a, are you in or out?

Like, I wanna know before we even
start talking, is this something

that aligns with who you are?

And I get messages across the
entire spectrum from, I don't know

why you're reaching out to me.

I don't invest.

And I go, oh, sorry.

You know, I, I saw this and
thought maybe it was a possibility.

If you know anybody happy
to have a conversation.

And then we leave it at that all the
way to the other side of the spectrum,

which is, I'm so glad you reached out.

My company is starting to get into film
investing and I would love to connect

you with my partner who's over that.

I go, great.

And then we have a meeting, right?

So from the very first message
I'm going, are you aligned?

This is what I'm doing, who it's
for, what it helps them achieve.

If that's aligned with what you're
doing right now in your life and

business, we should have a conversation.

So I almost treat it as a, as an
offering, as a gift instead of a

pitch to say, Hey, I wanted to make
sure you knew I was doing this thing.

And if that's interesting to you,
we should have a conversation.

And that excites a lot of people.

And so maybe one or two out
of every 10 that I talk to

is like, yeah, we could chat.

Great.

And then we go, so.

Yes.

I, I really hope that this helps.

This episode is something I feel like I'm
gonna reference many, many, many times.

'cause people constantly are asking,
well, how do you get meetings

and how are you pitching people?

And it's like, well, you do a lot
of it and you refine it and you

get better and better and better.

And you pursue that.

Like, how do I get better at pitching
over a year of doing nothing but pitching?

Um, if that's your goal and you're
con constantly getting better, I

have to think that at some point.

You get the thing that
you're pitching for.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
I would agree.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824:
That was a good facial reaction

for those listening, not watching.

You gotta watch the
YouTube version of this.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
I just, no, that, that's

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: I know.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824: that's

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yep.

I.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
agreement.

No notes.

Uh, Daren.

Great.

Great discussion.

Uh, thank you.

And, uh, for those listening, uh,
close to the release date, we, we

just had the, uh, golden Globes.

Uh, I don't know if this, if.

If that's even relevant anymore.

But, um, it's fascinating to watch.

Last night, I didn't mean to go political

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824:
you're good.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824: last
thing, uh, or topical, but, uh, were

several independent film winners and I
was just, it was so exciting and just

fascinating that in people's acceptance
speeches, you've got, uh, you've got

Tel Skarsgard who stands up and, uh,
the best supporting actor, golden Globe

for sentimental value, and he says.

This is a small film with no marketing
budget and is inviting people to go see

the movie and to be aware of the movie.

Nobody's ever heard of the movie or, you
know, uh, as far as you know, it certainly

wasn't nominated for a box office award.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
but these films continue to make

'em like they will break through.

And, uh, it, it was exciting
to see several independent

films being recognized.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

That's awesome.

I did not watch, I didn't know
it was last night, so now I gotta

go catch some updates and stuff.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
I know nobody knows anymore.

I think the Golden Globes
are more, more independent.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824:
That's okay.

But I mean, I, I love celebrating
film, so I'm all for that.

Um, I, I do, I do get, you know, emails
every week from, uh, some of the industry

things that I subscribe to, and it's
like, okay, well what does it mean

And who's a front runner for Oscars?

And.

Who cares?

Like that's not what, that's
not what we make movies for.

Some people do certainly, and it certainly
benefits you if you are a film worker

to be an award-winning film worker.

' cause you can charge more,
which is a good thing for you.

Right.

So I have a cousin, my, my wife's cousin
is an Oscar award-winning sound mixer.

So he can charge a lot more for,
and that's great for him because

the industry is in such shambles and
turmoil and uncertainty that like,

even though he's as good as he is.

There aren't as many jobs, so it's
like, okay, well I'm glad that you

can charge more per job because
you're really, really, really good.

So yes, I support all those things,
but making a movie so that it wins

awards is not why I make movies.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

Well keep at it.

Keep making movies and

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Do It.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
you to our listeners.

Uh, we did receive a fun email
this week saying, Hey, this podcast

was the reason I finished, I was
motivated to finish my short film,

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Love it.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
I love that.

So thank you for your feedback.

Um, give us those likes and stars where
we're listening and we'll keep doing this.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: Yeah.

Our one ask at the end of our
podcast is Share this with a friend.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
Uh, that was very clear.

Very clear.

Thank you.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824:
All right, man.

garrett-batty_1_01-12-2026_101824:
Daren, we'll talk to you next week.

daren-smith_1_01-12-2026_101824: See you.

See you.

Thanks for joining us.

If you are enjoying truly independent.

Please share and subscribe so you
don't miss the rest of the journey.

Today's episode was edited by
Michael Bradford and produced

by Three Coin Productions.

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