S3 EP01 | Truly Independent Season 3: Kicking Off the Writing Process
This season of Truly Independent is
supported by the Help Them See Foundation.
Help Them See is a nonprofit dedicated
to supporting feature films that
inspire faith, hope, and connection.
By partnering with filmmakers, the Help
Them See Foundation brings meaningful
stories to life and shares them with
audiences worldwide, making a lasting
cultural impact to the power of cinema.
Learn more and discover how you
can be the movement by visiting.
Help them see foundation.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628:
we did it.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
We did it.
Congratulations, Daren.
I'm glad to see, that
I'm still with you on.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628:
Yeah, we're still doing it.
we crossed our year mark like a month
or two ago, so that was a big milestone.
But now we're moving into the
next phases of both our projects.
Today, we're gonna talk
about yours next week.
Hopefully we'll talk about the
one I'm working on, but kind of
set the stage for us a little bit.
where are we starting this season from?
And also why.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
Yeah, I am very excited about this
season and where it's going, and to
be in this next phase on a project.
So for season three, truly independent
is going to focus on, pre-production.
we're gonna be on the writing process,
and we'll go into detail about
different, techniques and styles
and approaches to writing and how to
write efficiently and effectively.
And again, this is through
our own experience.
We're not necessarily the experts, we're
just sharing our experience with it.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628:
Yeah, exactly.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628: yeah.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: So kind
of set the stage for us what triggered the
transition from season two, where we were
really focused on kind of financing and
pitching and a little bit of development.
More like the story or the project
development as opposed to the actual,
script development, which we're gonna
focus more on in this season, but also
moving from, okay, we have a story.
Now what, whereas last season
was more how do we get to a
story that's kind of greenlit.
So set the stage for us what happened
with your project recently and,
and what can you share about it.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628: Yeah.
Well, good.
we are going to document the process of
writing the script and then breaking it
down and getting it ready for production.
So for any independent filmmaker,
that is the hurdle, hopefully this
season or these next groupings of
episodes, will help you through that.
as Daren and I documented with Faith
of Angels and the Carpenter, we kind
of documented the distribution process.
Hey, we've got a movie now.
How do I get it out there?
and then we've also been talking a
lot about the development and like,
okay, or the, I guess the pitch.
We haven't even been in development yet.
It's just the pitch and how do I
get a story ready for pitching?
And the goal was to do that through
getting some initial funding.
And so, recently, through a series of
events that I'll go into detail on,
we have a project that has received
initial funding, and we will be now
moving forward with that next step.
the name of that project,
the current working title is
called Where the Dog Heals.
and who knows if that
title is gonna stick?
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628:
Is it a play on words at all?
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
very much so,
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Okay.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
for the past several months
I've been developing this story.
It's based on a book
called, the Winston Story.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Hmm.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
The author of this book reached out
to me, Several months ago, he had
seen faith of Angels, and reached
out and said, Hey, this is a story
that's interesting that I've written.
This is my true experience of essentially
a dog that was diagnosed with cancer.
the dog was an integral part of this man's
life and his ministry, and, he couldn't
figure out how this diagnosis with
cancer was supposed to be helpful to his.
mission and what they were
accomplishing together.
The book details, the journey
of his faith and the dog.
spoiler alert being healed from
cancer and, medical science kind
of scratching their heads going,
I don't how this happening.
it being a big trial of his faith.
and then ultimately, where
that takes them on their.
ministry.
So it was very, you know, kind of
down my alley as far as faith-based,
inspirational, family, movie, that
I was very, very excited about.
, So, I took the book, created a pitch deck
from it, what would a movie look like?
Started to pitch that around then through
a foundation to help them see foundation.
Which, is a nonprofit
organization that we've started.
We were to raise, funds through donations,
donating to faith-based stories.
the initial funding came in that enabled
me to now focus on writing that script.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Amazing.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
like that's a really long explanation
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: No,
that's, I mean, that's a lot of stuff
that's been happening behind the scenes
that all culminated in, you felt like you
got to a point where you can move forward.
it's essentially a green light
to at least get into the writing
phase, the early development process
of what is this movie gonna be.
and so that's very exciting.
One thing that I think is interesting
though, 'cause I know this has
happened, at least on two of
your movies now, where someone.
Saw a previous movie of yours
and then reached out and
said, will you do one with me?
So is this common?
Like, does this happen every time where
the next movie is like, oh, I saw this
one that you did and now I want to hire
you two or work with you on my story?
Or is, am I just, connecting dots
that no one has connected before?
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
Well, I think that, yes.
I think that's very, very common.
You know, you see somebody's work.
okay, that aligns with what I'm doing.
Let's connect, see if there's,
potential to work together.
See if we get along.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Mm-hmm.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628: I
think we're both at this point in our
careers where we can say, look, we
don't need to necessarily work with
people we don't enjoy working with.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Yeah.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628: take
movies with our friends and, those that
have kind of the same approach to life and
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Yeah.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
Answer, yes, it happens
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: I
only bring it up because I think it's
important for people to realize that
like when you make stuff, then you
create opportunities for yourself.
Jim Collins calls it the luxe surface area
increases, Those kind of conversations
can come into your inbox or, show up on
your cell phone where someone's calling
and saying, I saw your movie and I want
to talk to you about the next thing.
I mean, that's how you and
I started working together.
I was working on something, you called
me and said, you wanna do the next thing?
just to harken back to the long
distance season two, we need to be
marketing ourselves and talking about
the movies we made and putting 'em
online and telling people about 'em.
And, and you never know what sort of
stuff's gonna show up when you do that.
So, okay.
you've got kind of, can we
safely say you've got like a
green light for this project.
It's moving forward.
This is the one you're gonna
work to produce, whether it's
this year or early next year.
Is that safe to say?
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
Yeah, that's very safe to say, man.
Here we are.
This is, are recording this August 11th.
and you know, you and I have made
weird announcements before, like, Hey,
August 1st we're gonna release a movie,
whatever, November 15th or something.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628:
Oh wait, we're gonna release two.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
And now we're gonna release two.
Yeah.
So who knows?
So take this for what it's worth.
But yes, this, we're definitely in full
steam ahead on where the dog heals.
my goal is to, by the end
of August, to have the first
draft of the script complete.
And we're gonna, let's detail how
that, how we're gonna make that happen.
Oh.
And to be funded.
So we don't have full funding yet
for the movie, but there's enough
momentum and enough interest, and
enough people that are saying,
yeah, we wanna get behind this.
That I believe that, when we have
record our podcast on September 1st,
whenever we would say, okay, now
we're moving into, kind of breaking
down that script in full pre-product.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Amazing.
That's very, very exciting.
Congrats, man.
You did it.
You got to the next phase.
And that's always the hardest
part is getting it, green lit.
So why the script?
Why are you starting there?
Why not get all the money first?
Why not go and attach some cast?
Why not figure out what
state has the best incentive?
Like, why are you starting with,
I'm being a little facetious, but
why are you starting with script?
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
Well, yeah.
I know you're being
facetious 'cause you know
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Sure.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
all of those things are happening
also behind the scenes, you know?
but we just know that, look, the script
is the foundation for the project, right?
No matter how good the cinematography is,
the location of performances or production
value, the script is the foundation.
And you can't, you know?
Go past a bad script, right?
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Yeah.
Now what's the saying that like
a great director with a crappy
script is no better than an okay
director with an amazing script.
Like you'd rather bet on the Okay.
Director with an amazing script because
it solves so many of the problems that
are inherent in making movies and so.
Devoting time, investing time
in this phase is essential.
And part of the thing I've been promoting
the last year is I've been talking to
investors and people about this film
fund is how important development is.
You're like, but what about the script?
are we gonna do any rewrites?
Are we gonna look at it?
Are we gonna read it together?
Like, can we slow down a second and
make sure the script's in a good place?
Because again, if that's not
working, it doesn't matter.
Anything else down the line
is gonna be affected by that.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628: Right.
And one of the things we've found
too in doing our projects is the
script is always evolving It's okay.
There's nothing precious about a script,
nor should there be because you and I are
gonna get into, pre-production, and trying
to solve location issues or character
count issues or, budgetary issues.
The first thing that has to
be flexible is the script.
Like we have to be able
to say, oh, you know what?
Maybe that perfect scene that I felt
was like, oh, this can't be touched.
It's not so perfect anymore.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Yeah.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
that has to be said.
but yes, we've gone from pitching
the idea like, Hey, here's this
idea and here's this amazing pitch
deck and these amazing visuals.
And people are all very, very
excited about it, where they don't
have to imagine what the story is.
They now can see what your vision is.
Now the script has to align with that.
Like here we go, like there, once we the
permission, it's like we bought the land.
Now we need to create the blueprint.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Yeah.
No, I love that analogy.
I think you highlighted something
really important, which is this kind
of myth of the perfect first draft.
And I think a lot of younger writers
or less experienced writers, I know
in the past I had this issue with
our scripts where I would hesitate.
Because I was worried
that it wasn't there yet.
And just like a first edit of a movie
or a project you benefit by showing it
to people because then you kind of get
that queasy feeling in your stomach
of like, oh, I really hope they don't
catch this error that I made right here.
And then you can, you know,
subconsciously or write down like,
oh, I need to work on that part.
'cause it gave me Those tummy grumbles
of like, oh, I don't like that part.
And I think it was Jordan Peele that
said it, or at least it's attributed
to him when I see it on Instagram, but
like he had this idea of the first draft
is shoveling sand into the sandbox.
And it's just putting it in there.
And then with draft two through 15,
which is typical for especially indies,
but I think any script, you're gonna go
through a dozen or more versions or drafts
of that thing, but you need all of the
material in the sandbox to play with.
And then you can start shaping and
putting it into buckets and doing all
this stuff and seeing how it looks and
taking a step back and going, oh, I
don't really love the height of that.
So I'm gonna trim that down a little bit.
I love that analogy because
it really just shows.
The preciousness we have as riders
around the first draft having
to be perfect 'cause everything
rides on this perfect first draft.
It's just not real.
we're shooting ourselves in the foot,
and making it even harder on ourself
to get the project move forward.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
Right, right.
you cannot create without matter.
And that matter is gonna
be totally unorganized.
and so yes to that first draft
should be unorganized, just, just.
download all of the research and
the story and whatever's in your
mind, download and get it on a page.
So one of the things I use to do that,
and there's a, there's a really, there's
a talented local writer named Brandon Ho.
And, you know, he writes amazing,
you know, independent films
and has had several produced.
and he, a few years ago, walked me through
his process that I've kind of adopted I
use, get that initial first draft out.
And it's, I think he calls it some sort
of like the, the story tree, and I don't
know if he took it from somebody else or
what, but we all know as writers, we've
got this screenwriting, you know, basic
the plot and the, and the, excuse me,
the, structure, dramatic structure, right?
So we know what that is, that exposition
and inciting incident and rising action
and all of that, like that, that exists.
This isn't, this podcast
isn't gonna break that down.
what he does for the story tree, and, or
at least what I took from what he does,
is essentially creates a spreadsheet
about a 90 beat spreadsheet and starts
with three lines, you know, his first
act, second act, third act, right?
This is what it is.
Just a three line summary of those things
and then breaks those down into three.
Lines like what has to happen
in order to get to that?
And he does that three or four times.
It was, it's almost like this,
this tree or this pyramid chart.
and to the point where he has now
90 lines and like 90 beat lines or
slug lines or whatever they are.
that is essentially his story.
if you've done that and, and for the past
several months as I've been developing
this story, I've been creating that.
Tree, kind of that 90 beat tree.
And through research meeting, you know,
meeting, Tim Rupert and hearing his story.
and then writing up my own character
descriptions and my own kind of plot
and what would happen in this story.
hi.
His book is a biography, so
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Yeah.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
is gonna have just kind of elements
that are not inherently cinematic.
so you say, okay, how
can we make these scenes.
Fit this narrative structure
of the, the genre of our movie.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Yeah.
I'm big, big, big on structure.
I'm an outline writer.
I'm very much, I've loved the
book, the Story Grid by Sean Coy.
He worked with, Steven Pressfield
for years and years, both on
his novels, but then also on his
screenplays as kind of an editor and.
It's a very similar structure.
breaking it down the, the first
act, second act, third act, the,
you know, inciting incident in the
middle build and the ending payoff.
And then each of those has
kind of five story beats.
And then you can go a level beyond that
to five story beats for each one of those.
And you probably end up with more like 75.
But same idea of making sure that
every part of the story is there and.
Having some sort of structure that
allows you to go, okay, yes, I, I did
everything I need to do in the inciting
incident, or the first act to set up the
rest of the movie, so now I can move on.
It's, very helpful.
Like I've never been the kind of
writer that just plunks down and
starts writing, Writing scenes
especially out of order because it's
like, well, what if I miss something?
What if that's not there?
So it doesn't mean it's the only way to
do it, but I think you and I are very
similar in the sense of, yeah, I want
to know that I've got everything before
I start putting words on the page.
Because I don't want to just end
up with a whole bunch of words that
I'm really in love with that are
gonna be hard to cut later because
they don't actually serve the story.
This season of Truly Independent is
supported by the Help Them See Foundation.
Help Them See is a nonprofit dedicated
to supporting feature films that
inspire faith, hope, and connection.
By partnering with filmmakers, the Help
Them See Foundation brings meaningful
stories to life and shares them with
audiences worldwide, making a lasting
cultural impact to the power of cinema.
Learn more and discover how you
can be the movement by visiting.
Help them see foundation.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
Daren, you mentioned, writing
scenes out of order, which yes.
for me, that's always
been a hard thing to do.
However, sometimes I do have
key scenes that I think, oh,
this scene is coming to me.
I want to get this down.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Yeah.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628: one
of the things that I do in order to.
Make sure that that's productive work
is in this early story development,
process where I'm down the beat sheet,
that 90 beat sheet and it is 75.
But for that second act I do extra
'cause that second act is always
longer and has kind of B and c subplots
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Yeah.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
So on a big Google sheet, I take my
essential timeline, you know, hey,
this story happens over dates or
this time period, and then my key
characters and, fill in the matrix.
So what is happening in my
main characters, protagonist?
What is happening here?
And then where are all of my key
supporting characters in that matrix?
So that those key scenes, Need to occur.
You know, if I say, oh, I wanna just
write this climactic moment right now,
I can go to my story matrix and say,
look, here's the climactic moment.
Here's where all of my characters are.
Some of them this moment
doesn't even apply
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Mm-hmm.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628: then
I can really kind of pick and choose
those favorite scenes that I wanna write
that I know are gonna end up in the film.
Right.
if I end up getting kind of a
writer's block thing, I can rely on
that matrix and say, who do I need?
what moment is this in
the narrative structure?
Is this the dark night of the soul?
Okay, well who is there at this point?
And let's start from that point and we can
write a random scene then helps facilitate
what eventually becomes is that pop point.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628:
Yeah, I love that.
So here's the other.
Question then, as you're getting into
this matrix, as you're thinking about
story beats and character back stories
and what they're gonna go through, as
well as being true to the story, 'cause
it sounds like another true story or
based on actual events type thing.
You're unique in that you're
writer, director, producer, right?
And so you're not just writing, do
you silo yourself into, I'm just the
writer and I'm not gonna have any
consideration of budget or resources or
timeline or like how hard it's gonna be?
Are you just purely writing off of,
as the kids say these days vibes?
are you allowing some of that
producer brain into the equation
and going, well, I can't write.
But are you already thinking about budget?
Are you thinking about
where this is gonna be shot?
Are you thinking about
the resources available?
I'll stop there so you
can answer the question.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
Yeah, and I that's a fun nod 'cause
I remember you reading the first.
The, your first read through of, faith
of Angels and knowing kind of the
budget limitations, and across that
helicopter point, and I think I got a
message from you and said, we're not
having a helicopter in this movie.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: we did.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628: Yeah.
So I try to silo myself and
say, look, this is my job.
My work for hire job right now is the
writer and so I believe that a good writer
knows their genre that they're writing in
and has to be mindful of producibility.
as an independent filmmaker, and I always
tell people this when I, go present at
film schools or presentations say, you
can't write yourself into a corner.
Like don't write beyond your resources,
I would often as a first time
writer, write or stories or scripts.
That are unreproducible, say,
oh, here's this amazing thing.
but I don't have the resources to do that.
And so I would encourage
independent filmmakers to say,
what do you have access to?
What, what do you know?
What, what resources do you have?
And right within those bounds.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Yeah,
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628: I don't
know if I just contradict myself or not.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: no, I
think it's, I think you said it right in
that not right that there's no right or
wrong, but I think, You're in a unique
situation, so a lot of times, writers,
we may have talked about this so I'll
keep it brief, but when we did the panel
at the Utah Film Fest, we had a lot of
writers who would come up and say, my
script is this, and it's a $50,000 budget.
And I really pushed back on
that with a lot of people.
I was like, why are you the writer who's
never done a budget before telling me
what the budget is like, don't do that.
you're shooting yourself in the foot.
before I even know what the story is, and
I'm out because I don't do $50,000 movies.
And so I think there has to be some
sense of this is gonna be a 500
k to million dollar budget thing.
And okay, great.
That's enough to say I can write
to that because I also met people
at a FM years ago and I'd say,
well, tell me about your project.
And they'd go, well, it's a
three to $5 million horror.
I was like, no, it's not.
Those are two completely different
movies, a 3 million and a 5 million.
No, like, you can't say that.
You can say 3.2
to 3.5.
It's like, oh, that's very specific.
Oh, you must have done a line
down in budget or something.
But, it always irks me for some reason.
And so I think it's smart to have
an idea of what the budget is.
But if you're a writer, my advice
would be to write the thing
that gets you going, right?
The thing that excites you and gets you
up in the morning so you can write those
scenes and it's awesome instead of,
well, I really held back here because
of the potential budget constraints.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
and here's what I think can
help inform that answer is.
has to be a certain amount of research
that a writer does so that they're
familiar enough with the story and
the world that they're playing in
that they do not limit themselves.
spent this last week in Atlanta and I
feel like that was a big breakthrough
moment where through our foundation
where received funding to go, do
essentially this final research trip
the weekend in Atlanta, we drove
around with Tim to different locations
where his story took place, I got to
see the accessibility we had to some
really, some production locations
that would've been out of the realm
of my mind as a writer or a producer.
Like, oh, I don't wanna write that moment
because I know that's Unreproducible.
But after spending a week out there
and going, oh, we can just drive up
and here's this incredible, unique,
dog diving ramp facility that we
would've had to build and, and go,
oh no, actually within this 50 mile
radius we could shoot this whole movie.
Suddenly that unlocked the ideas.
We go, okay, now I can write
kind of freely within the world
that we've been researching.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628:
Yeah, that's always been not a trick,
but something I've relied on too.
Like whenever, even for commercial
work, when I was writing scripts for
commercial projects that, that, that
were narrative commercial things, I would
always go to a location, even if it's
not where we were gonna end up shooting.
I just needed some physical space to go.
Oh.
They're standing here and they're
doing this and the light's this way.
And I'm like, now that I'm in there, I've
been at like the National History Museum
up in Salt Lake and just plunked down in
a corner with my laptop and wrote 30 pages
because I was like, oh, this is amazing.
It's like, yeah, I'm great.
Leave me alone.
You know, because something about
being in a physical space really helps.
That's cool to hear that you
were able to go and do that.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
it also helps with again, that
character development and saying,
okay, this is this individual, here's.
world that they live in now, that's
not necessarily always possible.
You're writing historical
fiction or something that, you
know, sci-fi movie, you can't
necessarily go interview the alien.
but I can tell you, I think the principle
is the same, the amount of research,
the wealth of information that is just
kind of that now can become a script.
if you're feeling like, oh,
I can't, I don't know, I'm
running into shortage of ideas.
You need more information,
you need more matter.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Yeah.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
and so that's, I think that
principle is universal.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628:
Well, I'm wondering if the same thing
that happened on Faith of Angels
is gonna happen on this film where.
Because of this story, because
it's kind of a faith-based,
uplifting, inspirational thing.
Just a lot of people kind of
showed up and helped, right?
There were people that we
met, they're like, oh yeah,
you can shoot here for free.
I know the guy.
I love that you're telling this story
and I want to help make it happen.
You're, oh my gosh, that's,
that saved us a lot of money.
Thank you.
And so I'm curious, did you
feel some of that out there?
Where did you meet other people
besides Tim that were like, oh yeah,
whatever you need, just let us know.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
Absolutely.
Yep.
And I think that that's, I mean, that's
either the nature of a faith-based
movie or just movie making in general.
There is a certain amount of
excitement and, Especially in
an area like rural Georgia.
You know, if, if we were in the
middle of Atlanta or, you know,
it'd be like shooting in la we're
like, oh, you wanna do a movie here?
Okay, where's your permits
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Yeah.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628: but I,
but we, we did not that, I didn't get that
feeling, you know, in Monroe, Georgia.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Well,
I'm guessing, you know, Georgia's a
very film friendly state and you know,
I'm guessing they probably have a rural
incentive as well, just like Utah does.
And so there's probably opportunities
galore when you start thinking
about putting it together.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
Yeah, I went out there with that
intention and met with, know,
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Nice.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
manager and some production.
Minded people and said, look, this is
a, an independent film in the realm
of this budget, and do we have access
to this and what's the incentive like?
And so we already started planting those
seeds, and got some great information.
We say, yes, you know, hey, under 1.5,
it's a right to work state.
And at 1.5,
now we go into union.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Hmm.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
well that's a good mentality.
So if we do 2.5,
we'll need to be a union.
but they have that, they certainly
have experienced crews out there
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Yeah.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
do that.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: very true
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
It was very helpful.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628:
So exciting.
Like just all the energy
around it is very cool.
A couple more questions then.
So you're not quite at the rewrite
stage, but at what point do you
involve other people in the process?
Because the two times I've worked with
you, you already had a script, and
it, there wasn't much development that
needed to happen first of all, but we
didn't really work together on let's dive
into the script and go beat by beat and
scene by scene and that kind of stuff.
So at what point, you know, this
is the first time I've kind of
spoken with you about a project.
Before the first page is written, what,
when do you bring in, whether it's
collaborators or co-writers or readers
or feedback, how do you handle that part?
Because I know a lot of people can
get stuck on, I just gotta do multiple
drafts myself, and then it's two
years later and they still haven't
made any progress with the project.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628: Yeah.
I think that there is this,
that's a good balance.
In my experience, I feel like there's
this phase of a project where all
of the outside influences have to
silence, and I've just got to and
that doesn't mean that it's gonna
be the best thing in the world.
I'm gonna walk outta my office with
the, you know, the golden draft.
I do, feel like I have to turn off
all of the outside influences and
phone and social media and everything
and, and just write into that
habit where there's consistent, you
know, daily page counts that are
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Yeah.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
out, you know, eight to 12
pages a day for two weeks.
And then, we can come out of the kitchen
and say, okay, now here's an opportunity.
I think too much influence from, a writing
partner or, you get excited and you're
like, oh, I got 10 pages done today.
Tim, what do you think about this?
And then you get into debate and you
start to refine what you already know.
You already have to accept
is gonna be garbage.
So gimme two weeks to just
create a garbage draft.
and now I can go, okay, now let's
get some outside opinion on it.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628:
Yeah, my take has always been, I don't
really show people the first draft.
I did that once and it really bit me in
the butt, and so I don't do that anymore.
I really am a big fan of knocking out
a draft in like 15 days and letting
it sit for a week or two and just
going, okay, I got it all on paper.
Let me get some distance from it.
Let me come back with fresh eyes and
read it and go, oh, that made me smile.
Circle that.
Oh, that didn't work at all.
Cross that out.
I'll do a slash and highlight
draft on my own first draft.
And then I can go, okay, what
is it about this part that I
crossed out that's not working?
Let me look back to the structure.
Oh yeah.
it, it's supposed to be this scene,
but I wrote it like this scene, and so
it's not doing the job it needs to do.
It's in the right place.
It just needs a rewrite.
So I'll just crank it out and that's the
rewrite process I get into, which I love.
I love the rewrite process.
I love it on my books.
I love it on my essays and my blog posts.
I love it on screenplays, but that's my.
Approach.
So I usually don't send my
first drafts out to people.
'cause I know that the feedback they give
me, I'm gonna be like, oh yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And that's not helpful.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
If you're sending out a draft and you
go, okay, I know that this is wrong.
Then it'd be good to just polish
that up and then send it out,
This season of Truly Independent is
supported by the Help Them See Foundation.
Help Them See is a nonprofit dedicated
to supporting feature films that
inspire faith, hope, and connection.
By partnering with filmmakers, the Help
Them See Foundation brings meaningful
stories to life and shares them with
audiences worldwide, making a lasting
cultural impact to the power of cinema.
Learn more and discover how you
can be the movement by visiting.
Help them see foundation.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Yeah.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
Daren to, now shift into a theme
that I know is near and dear to your
heart, do we use AI in this process?
And I'm excited because it's been very,
very helpful and I've been using it way.
And I just think, Daren would love it.
Daren would support this.
He'd endorse this.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Yeah.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
because it is that initial draft.
think or initial scene or 10 pages you
can bounce into AI into Chad g, PT or
whatever, or you know, even I've been
taking AI and saying, look, here's
our 90 p 90 beat story structure.
Just get to know this.
And ai, here's all of the hours and
hours and hours of interview that I've
done with character and supporting
characters and, here's my timeline matrix.
Just built this essential library
so that ai, my AI project is very,
very familiar with this story.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Yeah.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
okay, now I need a scene from this
beat and this slug line, and AI does
the first garbage draft of that scene.
it won't do a whole movie.
Don't, don't, don't even burden it
with saying, I'll write me a script.
Say, write me a scene with this thing.
Then I can take that into final draft,
rewrite, and polish that scene to
get it the right tone and feel.
Then take that back into AI and
say, here's that scene, revise.
This is the direction we're going.
Next scene I like, is this to happen?
And so forth.
And that has been really a fun,
and creative process despite
what you might think about like
a AI's writing a movie for you?
Not at all.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Yeah.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
it's been very, very rewarding.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628:
I like AI as a tool, not a voice,
and if it helps make the process
more fun, if it helps it go faster,
if it helps it be less stressful
and arduous and anxiety inducing.
Those are all good things,
and we have lots of tools.
We don't write screenplays
on typewriters anymore.
We use final draft or fade in.
Or Highland or whatever you use,
like, because those tools are more
effective and efficient in the job
that you're trying to accomplish.
And so there's a couple of things you
highlighted or said that I think are
important for people who are maybe like,
not Luddites, but are late in the game.
We're, I think we're still very early
in the game on ai, but if people have
not used AI at all, you mentioned
an AI project and with like chat CPT
specifically, and I think with a couple of
the other, like Claude and other AI LLMs.
You can essentially
create a project and then.
Give a whole bunch of context through
documents to the AI to say, here's
my voice, here's my past scripts,
here's the beat sheet, here's
the matrix, here's the character
descriptions, here's all these things.
So it has context because if
you just go to chat gpd.com
and you don't have an account
and you just put in, write me a
scene, it's gonna be pulling from
weird, crazy places from all over.
Its training, you know, language model.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628: I
even have to get after it a few times.
Like,
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Yeah.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
you gotta stay within the
realm of these, sources.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Yeah.
So I love the idea that I use
it as a tool, not a voice.
And so whenever I am working
with AI to write something, my
verbiage that I'm putting into
the prompt is, you are my editor.
You are not writing for me.
So I say, don't write for me.
I wanna do the writing, but give me
questions, give me prompts, give me
ideas, give me structure, whatever it is.
and it feels like, okay, well now
I've got a really efficient co-writing
partner or editor, I much prefer the
AI editor because it's real time.
I don't have to send a draft and
wait three weeks for the editor to
go through it and give me feedback.
I'm doing it line by line or
paragraph by paragraph in real time.
And it takes five seconds for
it to generate its response.
And I can go, no, I disagree.
Gimme another idea.
And, it doesn't have an ego.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628: Yeah.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: So
I love that aspect and I love that
you're using it that way because
like you said, it's more fun.
It's sparks creativity.
You can get a couple of, I think one
thing writers do a lot that's, not great
is they just go with the first idea.
And that's kind of like what chat
GPT would do if you just said,
write me a script with two people
in a diner talking about this.
It would just give you like the very
base level concept of that scene.
But if you say, gimme six ideas, you
can go, oh yeah, I thought of that one.
That one.
Oh, I didn't think of those two, and
I never would've thought of those two.
Oh, it's probably
somewhere in between those.
And because you're using your taste.
now you're able to more quickly get
to like the third or fourth idea you
would've had, but you're doing it in two
minutes instead of two days of rewrites.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628: Yeah.
it's been a very useful tool and I hope
that next week when we're chatting.
Let's see, that's seven days from now.
on page to 85.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Oh, man.
So have you written page one?
Okay.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
So Saturday I flew back,
I mean, today's Monday.
flew back from Atlanta and had the
night I finished, you know, Saturday
night we did our final, excuse
me, Friday night, did our final,
interviews and things like that.
Had all of those uploaded, transcribed.
Put into ai.
and I already had my 90 beat, structure.
And so sitting on the plane, it's a,
four hour flight, I think for two hours.
I worked on my laptop and
got about 13 pages done,
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Boom.
Love it.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
so we'll keep, hopefully that pace.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Yeah.
Very, very fun.
Garrett.
I'm glad we finally arrived
here at season three.
like I said, next episode will
hopefully be able to talk about the
next project that I've lined up.
it's a short project, more of a
proof of concept type deal, but
we are meeting again on Friday,
Once I have that meeting and get some more
clarity on where we're at in the process
and that I can actually talk freely
about it on the show we'll hopefully give
everybody an update on that next week.
So, exciting times ahead.
I'm really looking forward to, reading
this draft and how this story plays out.
And especially I do think there's
some interesting conversations to
have around, not just the writing,
but getting into pre-production.
At what point do you feel
comfortable doing that?
All those things we'll touch on in
this season of truly independent.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
Okay, Daren, thanks.
daren-smith_2_08-11-2025_101628: Amazing.
garrett-batty_2_08-11-2025_101628:
Talk to you soon
