Truly Independent: Demystifying the Indie Film Journey

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340: Hello.

Welcome to another episode
of Truly Independent Daren.

Nice to see you again.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
Always good to be seen and

great to see you as well, man.

Oh man.

Is this the last episode of 2025 Garrett?

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
It's certainly the last one we are

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Oof.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340: I
would imagine that this is gonna be

released sometime in the new year,
but but yes it is the last one we

record and what a year it's been.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
Seriously, it's been nutty.

I, I'm a little in shock that it
is the end of the year already.

Like I know that Christmas just happened.

I know that Thanksgiving was last month,
but like, how are we here already?

It feels like we should
be in April or May.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
it's been a speedy year and

yeah, it's it's been a good year.

We've got a lot done.

I'm ex, I'm excited to talk about
different movies that maybe we've

seen this year that are standouts.

And that's a new topic that we didn't
discuss pre-show, but, uh, and then also

to talk about some goals for the coming
year that that independent filmmakers

can or set or that we can set that, that
kind of might help us continue to create

and continue to have positive experiences
with independent film this year.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah,
it's always good to, kind of think back

on the year that you just had and the
end of the year is a good time to do that

rather than like August or something.

You know, especially this week between
Christmas and the year, I always.

Find it to kind of be a weird,
like limbo flex time of like, some

people want to meet and I'm like,
no, I don't wanna do that this week.

I wanna do my own thing.

I wanna focus on what did I learn
and what am I doing in 2026 and

getting set up strategically
for it and, and all that stuff.

And, someone pinged me yesterday, it
was like, can we do lunch this week?

Like, no, that, that sounds terrible.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340: Really?

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
Not because of them.

Like I do want to have lunch with
them, which is not this week.

And so I do like that we're in that
same mindset of like, okay, what

are the takeaways from this year?

And also what are we thinking about and
what are maybe some goals that can be

extracted from our conversations over the
last 52 weeks to say what can you do to

set up 2026 to be a really great year?

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
Are you typically a goal setter?

Is this,

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Jared?

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
I've been listening to a lot of of

that type of content and I'm hearing
like, Hey, it's just an arbitrary date.

Like why wait for January 1st to.

Make changes or become motivated again.

And on the other side of it is thank
goodness for this arbitrary date.

Because otherwise it would be,
we'd get in the routine and get,

there'd be this monotony that we
would have a hard time overcoming.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

To give you a short answer,
yes, I could not only do an

entire episode on goal setting.

I could do a completely different
podcast on goal setting.

Yes, I'm a big goal setter.

I'm a massive fan and proponent of goal
setting because I think once you have

an outcome that informs the strategy.

I love designing and
implementing strategy.

And so for me, the goal is the end and
the strategy is the means to get there.

And if you don't have that destination,
you're just gonna be treading water

or wandering around in the wilderness
and not making any progress.

And I think that is what we
hear from a lot of filmmakers.

It's like, man, I've really
been pushing hard this year

and I feel like I got nowhere.

And it's not necessarily that they
didn't have a goal, it's that the goal

wasn't either big enough to create
the tension or create the strategy

and or they missed a piece that
helped them make progress every day.

And so I'm a big
proponent of goal setting.

Yes.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340: Okay.

I would have w yes I would've
said the same thing about you if

somebody asked me and I would've
won money on that bet or whatever.

But yes, there's no hot news
flash that Daren Smith sets goals.

Know that.

But,

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
breaking news.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

Yeah, that's right.

So one of the things that we, that
I did wanna discuss, because if I

look back or it seems like a lot
of times we hear that, Hey, my goal

is I want, I wanna make a film.

I wanna do my feature, I wanna do
my, get a, get an in better film.

This done this year.

that's very relatable.

And more often than not
that is one of my goals.

And I'm hopeful that to look back
and say, okay here are some goals

that perhaps can be set and reached
or pondered or thought about so

that it's not just the same thing.

I wanna do my feature this.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
do we really do that?

How do we break that down?

And so if we could ping pong ideas
back and forth, five goals on what

independent filmmakers can be doing
so that they can reach that, hit

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: yeah.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340: desire,

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

And to, to further frame that
to me, the, the goal is not

to produce or make a movie.

The goal is to have a system where
the output is a movie every year.

And that might sound like the
same thing, but they're two very

completely different things.

And so I think as we go through and kind
of ping pong across these different areas

of focus or different goals you could set
as a filmmaker I think that's gonna shine.

You know, by the end, people
are gonna go, oh, okay.

We're, we're talking in systems
here, not in just one-offs.

And that to me is very exciting.

So do you want to kick us off or
do you want me to do the first one?

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
I can do this first one.

Okay.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
All right.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340: on
our list is, uh, build a direct audience.

Channel You control.

And Daren, we've emphasized this.

That was the initial even impetus
for this podcast to build our

audience directly, As independent
filmmakers, it is crucial that we.

Control an audience that
we build our audience.

So whether that's an email list
or an SMS list tied to our name

or company, not just to a film but
it's something that we can control.

So a goal might be I'd like to build my
audience by a newsletter that I do weekly.

Or a YouTube channel.

My, my son has talked a lot about
he wants to do a YouTube channel

only to hold himself accountable,

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340: that.

And he was, he's 14 years old
and more motivated than I am.

And then to capture those emails, capture
that audience so that you can control it.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
Yeah I cannot I mean, I'm really

grateful this is number one because
I think this is where the leverage

is gonna be going forward, and we'll
probably touch on it even more as we

go through the, the rest of this list.

But like, I've said this multiple times
over the last few months because it's

become a bit of a mantra for me that my.

Responsibility as a producer is not just
to bring a distributor, a great film,

it's to bring the audience along with it.

And because I've had these conversations
with distributors and all they want is a

sure thing that is that is their goal to
get as much of a sure thing as possible.

So that's why they bring up who's in it.

That's why they bring up the genre and
the budget and all that stuff because

they need to know, if I bring this movie
into our slate, will it make money?

'cause if not.

Upfront, they're just gonna be like,
well, this is a losing endeavor.

Why would we invest our time
and, and resources into that?

So if me, if I, as a indie filmmaker can
say, look, here's a movie that I produced

at this budget, with this genre, with
this cast, and here's a hundred thousand

people that want to go see it, that's a
very different conversation because that's

a million dollar box office right there.

Uh, okay.

They're gonna say yes to that.

So.

Do I have that?

No.

Am I working toward that?

Yes.

We have this podcast.

I have a newsletter that's got
almost 4,500 or 5,000 people on it.

We're building the newsletter for
Brotherhood, but we're doing it under

the Craftsman Films existing newsletter.

So like this said, a direct
audience on a channel you control.

So notice I'm not talking about an
Instagram or even a LinkedIn presence.

I don't control those audiences.

I don't control the ability to reach all
of them, but on my email I can get a 60

to 80% open rate, whereas on LinkedIn
I reach six to 10% of my audience.

So that's why you want a direct
audience channel that you control.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340: And
you can put a simple metric on that.

Say, look, I would like a
thousand subscribers by the end of

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
That's my goal.

Or one consistent content
touchpoint per week.

That's what I'm going to do.

That's what I can control
to build an audience.

So that when I do my feature, I right.

I approach a distributor with an audience.

Yeah, it's a great, it's
a great way to do it.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah,
I think it's gonna be really key.

And the sooner you start the better.

And I also think it's important,
like it said, uh, like you said

we're not doing it per project.

We're doing it for ourselves and our
companies so that people are associating

us or with us and building relationships
with us, not some faceless movie.

Instagram page.

So I think that is the way to go to build
personal brands, not business brands.

And there's lots of data and research that
shows that that's the smart way to go.

All right, very cool.

So I'm already sensing the
feedback from the audience of

like, that's, this is too much.

I can't do it all.

Well, here's number two.

We we're only one in, we're only
one, uh, goal into a list of five

that we have for you guys today.

So.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340: And
as far as too much, an hour a week guys.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
that is too much, probably

not in the right business.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: yeah.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
it's an hour a week to send an email

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
I'm more talking to myself

'cause that is my goal.

Come on, it's an hour a
week, Eric, just do it.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
Yeah, no, it's very true and no

one else is gonna do it for you.

This is the truly Independent podcast.

This is the assumption that,

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
so listeners

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
so all this.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
Three Coin Pro, sign up for the

email, the weekly email, and maybe
I'm doing that publicly, committing

to send out the weekly email from
the, to build the Three Coin Pro list.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

And I would add, it's not just sending
it out it's getting more people to

know about it every week as well.

So there has to be two mechanisms.

One, that's your output system
of here's where I'm gonna sit

down and spend 30 minutes.

Doing that, and here's
split it into 30 minutes.

It's still just an hour a
week, Garrett, 30 minutes of

writing, 30 minutes of marketing.

How about that?

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
That's right.

That's

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: All
right, so number two is develop at least

one project with distribution in mind.

So we talked about this
last episode, right?

You're developing with
distribution in mind.

You're not thinking, I'm gonna
go make a movie and then I'm

gonna think about distribution.

No, you need to start thinking
about it upfront and go, if you

missed last week's episode, go
listen to it or watch it because we.

We did a deep dive on it.

So what this looks like is that
before you're even like hiring

people and spending money, you're
thinking about who's the target

distributor or even platform.

But I really like the idea of
thinking about a distributor

before you even finish the script.

If you're a producer, if you're a
writer, director, and you're talking

to each other about doing this project
together, the conversation of who

should distribute this is at the
same time as, what is this movie?

It's that early.

And why that matters is because if you're
not thinking about the distributor, if

you're not thinking about the budget, if
you're not thinking about the market and

who you're gonna reach and how you're
gonna reach 'em, and the core audience for

this thing, you're missing like half of
the success of the movie is the marketing.

And if you can't.

Bring yourself to start thinking
about that early enough.

You're really doing yourself
and the movie a disservice.

And we've seen it time and time again.

When I talk to distributors, when
we've talked to distributors and

the movie's done and they say,
oh, I wish you called me earlier.

I would've informed this decision, or
we would've maybe tweaked this scene

or this character or the whatever.

And it's too late at that point.

'cause the movie's already in the can.

It really matters because the indie films
that work are the ones that aligned with

what the reality is in the marketplace.

And if you are, if you're disconnected
from that you're trying to have

success in a way that's like incre or
extremely harder, exponentially harder

than if you actually aligned with
what's going on in the marketplace.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
You're hoping for an accident

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
like, Hey, are we gonna hope

that this accidentally succeeds
rather than engineering?

It's success and kinda securing that,
ensuring that a little bit more.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
And yeah.

I at Sundance each year, on the first
day of Sundance, there are nude or news

articles, not nude articles, news articles
that come out and say such and such.

Sold at Sundance.

And I'm thinking, wait a minute.

the movie just barely
screened at Sundance.

Now the distributor, like there's
not even time for a meeting or to

take the 24 hours to think about and
oh no, those deals are engineered.

Sundance is the promotion

I'm with it.

There's no accidental success or if
it is, great, but don't hope for that.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
Yeah, but I think you highlighted

a really interesting strategy,
which is use the festival as the

marketing, as the announcement.

As the pr not where you hope
for an accident to occur.

I love that phrase.

We should put it on a
t-shirt or something.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
Hold for accidents.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
but you, there's nothing that says

you can't talk to distributors
unless you're at a festival and

they're requesting a meeting like.

You just call them.

I've done that the last month and I've had
half a dozen meetings with distributors

that typically you would meet at A FM or
EFM or CAN or Sundance or some festival,

and they're go, they're a little shocked
because not enough producers do it,

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340: yeah.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
they're also grateful because they're

like, wow, I have time to look at this.

You're not even gonna shoot it
for four or five more months.

If that gives me time to think about it
and look at our slate and get through

the holidays and all these things,
like it's a generous act to say, I'm

talking to you now six months out before
the movie even goes into production.

So that you can inform some
of the decisions we're making.

And I've been adamant with them
we're not gonna change the cast.

We're not gonna, but

Budget's locked.

Those kind of things.

But man, if they wanted to bring in
another million dollars to bring in

a cast, I'd strongly consider that
because it means that they're enrolled

and they're, they've got buy-in and
they've got some skin in the game, and

that's what you want from a distributor.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
I love it.

Okay, so we've got weekly contacts.

least build your audience
and what's the goal?

Number two, develop at least one
project with distribution in mind.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
There you go.

Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
moving on.

And real quick, that one project
doesn't have to be a feature.

If you're saying, I'm gonna develop
my short film, and the distribution

is a YouTube channel, I'm gonna
use that to build an audience.

Great.

Do it.

But you're engineering it.

You're planning it out.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah,
and you're working that muscle of what

does it mean to have it in mind at the
very beginning, and then you execute a

plan instead of hoping for an accident.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

Number three, the diversify
income beyond the next film.

This is a note for me.

This one's good.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
For everybody.

Just have it yourself, Garrett.

You have to share this one.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
Okay, good.

I'm glad.

I'm not the only one, right?

I'm not the only one that,
that has to hear this.

Okay.

yes.

Oftentimes I get into okay,
we're gonna do this next movie.

We gotta do this next movie.

But boy, we're, I gotta figure out
how to pay the bills each month.

And if that movie isn't
coming in I, then I'm sunk.

It can't be that we gotta diversify
enough beyond the next film.

Consider options set goals, like for,
Hey, I wanna write for hire or consult.

I don't know, Daren I'm
reading these notes.

I'll just, I'll read these
notes and then get your

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
Okay, that sounds good.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
because I don't know if this

goes this is so hard for me.

It goes against my

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
about me.

writing for hire to development,
consulting, branded content for

documentary and non-profit work,
teaching or speaking for workshops.

Or IP Development Books, podcast series,

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
are things that you could

say, Hey, I'm gonna diversify.

Now, I will say this right now,
even as we're speaking, I am right

behind my recording screen is my
edit, is Fika Pro Edit of episode

two of the Making of Brotherhood.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
So that's a side gig

that I'm doing promoting.

Your film, your project
being paid on that.

So that is, how I'm diversifying.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
No, that's what it is.

It's, you're, you're thinking of,

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
about that.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: well,
and yeah, I shouldn't feel bad about

it at all because not only are you
bringing in income, but you're, you know,

you're helping, and all of this, all
of the work around it is gonna benefit

everybody that's involved with it.

But

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340: Sure.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
what I think this is talking

about is the idea that.

Financial pressure does
not help creativity.

So if you've put financial pressure on
a thing that you're gonna try to make

next year, it has to perform, it has
to pay you a certain amount of money.

It has to cover your, your bills.

It has to do this, this.

Financially speaking, that's a lot of
pressure to put on a work of art or a

piece of creativity or creative output.

And I, I spent.

Nearly two decades doing that to myself.

And it's terrible.

And yet we do it to ourselves.

And so part of this, I think, is
highlighting that we are doing this

to ourselves and we gotta stop it.

And if we can relieve some of that
financial pressure by diversifying our

income, it could be a part-time job.

It could be something on nights
and weekends, it could be whatever.

And there's nothing bad or wrong or, or.

Less than, or any of those things
when it comes to, I'm gonna do this to

support my ability to show up and do the
creative work at my best possible way.

Because if you're showing up stressed
and frustrated and your spouse is

saying, Hey, get a job, and you're,
you're looking at your bank account

and you got kids in a house and the
cars like that is not a great state.

To try and create from, even if you've
managed to get up early or stay up late

to do the work, you're still got all that
weight yelling in your ear behind you as

you're trying to type words into a screen.

It's just not gonna, it's not good.

And so it's a gift to yourself.

It's not a you failed, it's
not a, you're not there yet.

It's none of those things.

Those are just stories
you're telling yourself.

It's a, I'm gonna strategically
do this to take care of the

financial aspect of my life so that.

I have the emotional and mental
and spiritual capacity to create.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
Okay, that makes sense.

And I like that.

And there's something, then
the thought that I'm processing

and help me process this is,
creativity under pressure is good.

Like when sometimes, like when you're
in a very high pressure situation,

the creativity pushed out and you
come up with some great solutions

and solve a lot of problems.

if that pressure is financial
or something, if that pressure

is coming from a certain source.

Then that's not good.

Like it doesn't enable creativity.

It doesn't allow it.

I don't know what that is.

If it's creativity, work for hire is not
a good thing or hasn't been a good thing.

But man, if I'm trying to solve like,
Hey, how do I best tell this story?

Or how do we do this film for this budget?

Those are some great, I get some
great results creatively from that.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
Yeah, I think.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
What is that fresher?

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: I
think what you're highlighting is where

the pressure's coming from and where
the pressure's being put on, and so if

pressure is being put on the project
to deliver a financial outcome, I

think that really squashes any chance
of being creative because then you're

calculating for how do I get paid?

Which is not the same as how do I make a
great story that deserves to be told that

people are gonna want to pay money for.

So if you can remove the financial
requirement from the piece

of work that hasn't even been
created yet, that's one thing.

But there's really good.

Like you've highlighted, it's
really good to have some internal

or even external pressure like you
just did earlier in the podcast.

I'm committing myself publicly to do this.

That's pressure you're putting on
yourself to show up to deliver an

outcome, but it's not the creative
work that you're talking about.

You're not saying I'm committing
publicly for this script to sell

for a million dollars to Netflix.

That's too much pressure
and it's outta your control.

It's not a good goal, right?

And so that might be a dream one
day, but like we're talking about

at the beginning, we need to build
systems that generate those outcomes.

They emerge because the system
exists, not because you put

this financial pressure on it.

And so there's a difference between
putting pressure on a piece of

work and pressure on yourself
to show up and do that work.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

I understand that helps and I like
that having ease the pressure so that

you can focus on being creative that
pressure should solve creative issues.

Not, Hey, this should solve everything
else so that I can be creative.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

One example that I, I've used before and
I, I like a lot 'cause it keeps coming

up, is when I talk to screenwriters
and they're saying, how do you do this?

Because I've written a book on like
how to, how creative, uh, independent

creators can build profitable businesses.

So I get a lot of creators coming
to me and tell me how this works.

And so I say, look.

If you're a writer, it's really
hard to sell a screenplay.

But, and that's not a piece of
content, it's not an output that is

really viable in the marketplace.

'cause how many buyers are there
and how many of 'em actually are

asking you to write for them.

It's, again, you're hoping for an
accident early on in your career.

I'm gonna keep using that
phrase so that it's just burned

into my and everybody's ears.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
It originated right

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
I love it.

I love it.

What I tell a lot of screenwriters
to do is to write stuff that

can be commercially viable.

So write short stories or write
books or write the narrative version.

Write a novel, write a
short story, write whatever.

'cause you can sell those on Amazon.

You can make five or 10 bucks if you
sell it directly to your audience.

You can, yes, you can do the consulting
and the other side gigs and all that

kind of stuff, but if you're a writer
and you're not being hired to edit

a project or go film a project like
your skill, your craft is writing.

Okay, well, where is there actual
demand for what you're writing?

And focus on that at least part-time and
build it up to a sustainable level because

there are plenty of writers who have a
substack and it's paid and it pays 'em a

thousand or 1500 bucks a month, but hey,
that's your mortgage or that's your rent,

or that's your car payment or whatever.

Like just I'm saying it like
it's an easy thing to do.

No, it's gonna take a year or two to
build up to the point where you have

a thousand dollars a month in revenue.

But

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: I
think that's a more direct route to the

financial pressure being relieved than.

I'm just gonna keep writing another
screenplay, another screenplay, another

screenplay, and hoping that it sells.

And then it makes up for the five or three
or 10 years that it took me to get to the

point where I could sell a screenplay.

So that's, take that and extrapolate
it for your, your situation.

Not you, Garrett, but you, the audience
listener, and go, okay, what are

some things that are complimentary
to the skillset that I have that are

maybe more directly marketable or
sellable in the marketplace right now?

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340: Daren,
I feel like I, I need to add this and

this is, hope I, I think this will be
some meat here that I'm offering up.

I was a few years ago getting ready
to, desperately trying to make my next

movie, and I'd already done several and.

I had somebody come in and look at
my finances and said, look what,

it feels like I have this great
pressure to make the monthly bill

or whatever it is financially.

And then with this individual that
analyzes my finances, he was a a part-time

CFO for me, where we got together for a
month, once a month, after three or four

months, he knew the routine, knew my
finances, knew what was going on, and he.

Said you're act, you are closer to
your next movie than you think you are.

and based on your finances and
based on whatever, cutting these

expenses or whatever you're.

You're good for a certain amount of time.

And it was so freeing and it allowed
me to be like to say, oh, okay.

I can have these conversations
with investors now, or I can take

the risk that I was so afraid to
take because I was trying to make

my next month or whatever it is.

Essentially he helped identify.

These income streams that already existed
or that I didn't really recognize, I

think I just need to pass that on and
say, look, filmmakers that wanna make

your next feature you are probably
closer to that than you think you are.

if we take a moment to analyze what
we're spending, what's, where we're

at financially, recognize the very
low cost of entry make a feature

or to make your next project.

Don't let that you or worry you
don't let that uncertainty what

keeps you from achieving that goal.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

I love that you shared that and
I wanna highlight one thing,

which is your situation didn't
change, the story changed,

And then all the pressure went away.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yes.

Yeah.

Yep.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Amazing.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
which maybe brings us to our next

goal, Daren, would wanna read this one?

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

This one's great.

It's been a, it's been a big focus of
my year and I, I'll, my frequency is

may different, but this next one is,
so goal number four, strengthen one

strategic relationship per quarter.

And this again, it goes back to like
having the end in mind and thinking

about where are you trying to get to.

This guy, Derek Sivvers, has written a
number of books and he has one called On

Marketing called Your Music and People.

And in it he says the fastest way
to get anywhere is to call the

destination and ask for directions.

And so I think of that when I
think of strategic relationship.

Where am I trying to get to?

What do I want to be able to do?

Who do I wanna become?

Find those people, call them,
build relationships with them.

And then that opens up a lot
of doors because now you have.

Not just a strategic relationship,
but a relationship with

someone who can help you.

So what this looks like is, you
know, find a producer or find a

distributor or a financier investor.

A collaborator that you
invest real time in.

And so you're not just treating
them like an ATM, you're not

just saying, Hey, I need this.

Can you help me?

Hey, I need this.

Can you help me?

You're saying.

Hey, I saw that you posted on
LinkedIn that this happened.

Congrats.

I don't have anything in this message
that could be s seen as an ask.

It's literally just me keeping up with
the relationship, saying, dude, congrats.

That is awesome that that happened.

I'm so happy for you.

You know, we should catch up
soon if you want to include that.

Or you could just say, congrats.

That's amazing.

I saw that happen.

So this means like.

You're actually meeting them in person.

You're travel, like when you're in town,
you say, Hey, I'm in town next week.

I'd love to catch up.

Not, I'd love to ask you for
all the things that I need

from you, but hey, I'd love to.

Strengthen their relationship
by spending an hour together.

Let's grab lunch.

Let's go to a show.

Let's do a thing like,
I'm hosting a lunch.

I want you to come.

Whatever it is, those
invitations are part of it.

The time spent together is part of it.

And like we've talked about over the
course of this year, I've probably

hosted, I don't know, a dozen or
15 different lunches or events

or meetups throughout the year.

And those relationships were
strengthened because they got an invite.

Even the ones that didn't show
up became stronger relationships

because I invited them and then
I had something to follow up on.

Hey, I'm sorry we missed each other.

I'd love to catch lunch.

I talked about a dozen or 15 events.

I probably had a hundred lunches this
year with people that I'm building

these strategic relationships with.

So it's not just, again, not treating
people like ATMs and saying, oh, I

need this from them, so I'm gonna
build a relationship with them.

It's saying I think I can bring some
value to their life, and I think it's a

strategic relationship for both of us.

And that's kind of the
understanding going in.

Like, I wanna build a relationship with
you because I think I can bring this

and you know, you've obviously got this
going on and let's talk about that.

So I think this is a huge one,
and if you wanna start small,

then build one per quarter.

Identify one investor, one producer, one
writer, one collaborator, one distributor

that you wanna connect with in 2026
and do one a quarter and start there.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
Daren, that's so valuable.

And I think one of the things that
for me gonna take from that is that

the relationship is oftentimes an
existing relationship that you have.

And it's somebody that you already
know, somebody that you've worked

with, on the periphery, and you're
gonna strengthen that and go

deeper that particular individual.

And I think a lot of the
independent films happen.

A lot of the projects that I'm involved
with happen because of the deep

relationships, not because of the broad
oh, I know a hundred people, therefore I'm

gonna make 'em do Hey, here's two or three
individuals that we're really connecting

with and we're gonna write together or
raise money together, or they're gonna

bring in money and I'm gonna spend it.

But that's how these
projects are gonna happen.

So I, I love that.

And that's very helpful.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
How much.

There's a lot of energy that
does need to go into that,

and there needs to be balance.

And I guess what I'm leading towards
is there's probably needs to be a

personal inventory on relationships
that aren't going anywhere, that

aren't mutually beneficial and maybe
need to spend less time on those

in, in, in the nicest way possible.

But recognize that hey,
in order for these.

Goals to be achieved in order for
me to go in the direction that

I want to go, going to develop,

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
strengthen those relationships that are

gonna be more beneficial to both of us.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
Yeah, I think doing an audit

like that is super important.

I'll share two ideas.

One is that when I did an audit
earlier in the year, I realized

I was on my phone too much.

And that is a relationship

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340: Ah,

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
that was sucking time at the level

of like sometimes three or four
hours a day of time spent scrolling.

On my phone sometimes, you know, I'm,
listen, I'm watching a, a YouTube video

or something in the background, so like
that counts towards screen time, but I

know, I know what I'm spending my time on.

And so as of, at least a year ago, if
not longer, I don't have social media

apps on my phone that could, that have
algorithmic feeds that are in intended

to suck me in and spend as much of
my time and attention as possible.

Those don't exist in my life.

Like they, they are not on my phone.

I don't scroll the internet
on my computer, my computer's

for working and creating.

Um, and so that was something where
I instantly got back like 10 to 15

hours a week of time because I cut
off that relationship with my phone.

And I, I think people should really audit.

That relationship with not just
the phone, but with the different

apps, with the things that are
sucking your time and attention

and not giving anything in return.

That's a big one.

The other idea is that if you want to
speed this up, if you want to do more than

just like four next year relationships
there's a really high leverage.

There is really high leverage with
connectors and communities, and I don't

know if we've talked about this on
the show yet, but that this is like a

big takeaway for me from 2025 is that.

If I can find a connector, someone who
already has a network, or someone who

already has a community of people that
are interested in what I'm doing, then

I only need to create one relationship
and I might get 10 or 20 or 50 or a

hundred because of that one relationship.

Because what they will do is say, oh,
I built this relationship with Daren

and I want to tell all of you about it.

All of a sudden you get the benefit
and the fast forwarding, it's almost

like time travel of like, oh, I just
got a hundred relationships in a

single message because that person
already has a relationship with them.

So my connecting with them,
I get their whole network.

And that's happened a few times this year.

And it's honestly where the
big swings or the big, um.

Moments of momentum and growth have come
from these connectors, these partnerships,

these strategic relationships.

So think about that as you're
building or designing who you wanna

build strategic relationships with.

And think about who are they
connected to or do they have a

community of people that are the
type of people I want to connect to?

'cause if you go to the
community, uh, organizer and build

relationships with them, you get
the whole community as a bonus.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

Daren, those are some great
insights and I love that.

I love that thought that you're
the, you have a relationship with

phone and is that beneficial?

Is that helping you and it,
and most likely it's not.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
I love that.

Okay.

Should we go on to goal number five?

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

I think we got one.

One last one.

So again, don't get overwhelmed.

Everybody.

Pick one of these like start.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
no, do 'em all.

Make the list.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
I take it do 'em all tomorrow,

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340: all.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
January 1st.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
Number five is ship

something, even if it's small,

Right?

So stay creatively and publicly active.

This last year I did a short film, and
it's it's being distributed through

living Scriptures and actually just
made it through the Angel Guild.

so it's just a little
15 minute short film.

I did not do a feature I did finish
a script, but I guess the point is

we need stay creatively active ship
something, get something out there in

front of your audience, not just your
newsletter, but something creative.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
Yeah, hone your craft and keep

it up like you have to keep.

Doing it because if people see that
you're gonna do it, whether or not they're

involved, I think that matters a lot.

It brings back this concept
of being inevitable.

So if you're writing scripts, if
you're producing stuff, if you're

making it and they're not involved,
they're going, oh, this guy doesn't

need me, but I really wanna be involved
with this, so I better call Garrett.

I better show up in his inbox.

And that's happened for both of
us this year where it's like, oh,

because of the stuff we're making
and we're telling people about it.

They go, oh man, he's making stuff.

He's doing things.

It's different than someone going, I
would really like you to give me the money

and permission to go make this thing.

That's not a great pitch, because
they're saying, well, it's a

hundred percent reliant on whether
I give you this money or not.

I don't like that feeling.

I don't like that pressure, so no thanks.

I'd rather not.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
More often than not, I've had

investors give money because
I am already making something,

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
not because I'm asking them for money.

You're making a feature, you're
doing a short, you're busy,

you're building momentum.

People want to be a part of that.

It's an investment or crew or

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
an audience, right?

They want to be a part of the
momentum that you're building.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
even those short films that

you're doing and putting out
there, keep, do, keep doing those.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah,
for producers, I think it's hard.

I'll say this because I've found that
to be hard, like what is my creative.

Craft, like what is it that I do?

Like I'm structuring deals, I'm
putting together projects, I'm figuring

out all the different pieces, the
financing, the crew, the production,

the marketing, the distribution.

Like I'm an architect.

That's what I could see
myself as a systems architect.

I'm someone who's creating
these opportunities.

For all those different
people to be involved in.

So a, an investor a filmmaker,
a crew person, a marketer,

a distributor, an audience.

That's what I do.

So how, what's the creative output there?

Right?

And so I've thought about this a lot.

I don't actually know, but what
I think it is right now is.

This kind of, let's call
it thought leadership.

I don't love that term because
I, I don't think of myself as

someone who has original thoughts.

I think I'm just taking two or three
things and putting 'em together and going,

oh, hey guys, here's a, here's an idea
that I think if you combine these three

things, there's something there, and I'm
writing about it, and I'm talking about

it on this podcast, on other podcasts.

So part of my creative quote unquote
output is sharing the architecture.

It's not in the form of a blueprint.

Sometimes it takes the form
of a strategy document or a

newsletter, or a podcast or a

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
LinkedIn post.

To me, that is the craft or how I share
the craft of architecting projects.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
I think you're right on Daren.

I think this podcast is a result of or
is an opportunity for you as a producer.

To share and to participate in
that but also professorially.

I say, okay, every week I've gotta come up
with a guest or a topic and create that.

And execute it and deliver it.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340: I
would also suggest that that you are,

that the producer, you're right, you're
not delivering a creative film, but you

are delivering influence as a person of
influence in the independent film space.

You're delivering that weekly,
or quarterly or whatever it is

with your posts and podcasts
and lunches and trainings and

everything else that you're doing.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
Yeah, it's a weird thing to say, like

my output is a LinkedIn post or a
newsletter, but I think that's what it is.

The takeaway there is what is your thing?

What is it that you're
gonna ship this year?

And it might be something big like a
screenplay, but it could be something

much smaller and more snack size
of, it's a LinkedIn post, or it's a

blog post, or it's, you know, I've
written books, I've put on retreats.

I've do these things, but they're all
kind of in the same vein of if I'm

doing a retreat, it's, it's me telling
people how I architect projects.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340: Yeah.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
But it's in retreat form.

And my book is, here's how I architect
Projects and Businesses in book

Form, and here's how I do it in
newsletter form and podcast form.

It's the same thing over and over,
which is why I see myself more as

an architect than a CEO, because
I'm not about the operations.

I'm not an ex, I'm not an executor.

I'm not executing.

I'm designing the plan, so if
anything, I'm the chief architect

at Craftsman Films, not the CEO,
not the president and founder.

I'm the guy designing this, the system
that everyone else gets to implement.

So I think.

For the listener, what is it for you?

What is the craft and what is the output?

It could be a short film, it
could be a proof of concept.

It could be a sizzle, a, a teaser a
pitch deck, a whatever, a plan but

putting it out there in the world
so that it can get read and seen

and experienced by real people.

I think that's the goal there.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
We'd love to know what your goals are,

those that are listening or watching.

Send us an email.

Go to the podcast, the webpage
frequent pro.com/podcast.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
That's it.

We need to say it more often, apparently.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340:
really do.

Yeah, that'll be goal number six.

But, or leave a comment, wherever you're
listening and tell us your goals as an

independent filmmaker or producer or
participant in as an audience member,

we'd love to hear what you're up to.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340: Amazing.

Great stuff, Garrett.

I think that's an awesome way to kind
of wrap up the year that we've had.

I'm really excited for
what's coming in 2026.

I think you've got a couple of projects
that are really close and I'm really

looking forward to, taking everything
I learned this year about raising money

and enrolling people in a process to then
say, okay, we're gonna have a couple of

projects coming through next year, and
excited to see how they perform and how

they do, and the audiences they reach.

Man, it's gonna be a good year.

garrett-batty_1_12-29-2025_102340: Looking
forward to it, Daren, and we'll be here

every week to report on it or to talk
about it, and invite you to join in our

progress as we share this experience
as of demystifying independent film.

daren-smith_1_12-29-2025_102340:
All right.

Thanks man.