Truly Independent: Demystifying the Indie Film Journey

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Welcome to Season three
of Truly Independent.

I'm Garrett Batty, alongside
my co-host Daren Smith.

Each week we'll go in depth with guests,
industry experts, and we'll even share

our own experiences, all with the goal of
demystifying the independent film process.

This season, it's all about the
script from the first spark of an

idea to a polished final draft,
breaking it down for scheduling,

budgeting, and ultimately shooting.

We'll walk through every step it
takes to get from page to production.

Welcome to Truly Independent.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
Daren, how are you?

You, it looks like you got the memo to
today's casual Monday or hoodie Monday.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443:
Hoodie Monday.

I'm sporting the, uh, steady C four,
our friend Charles Unisys brand there.

Shout out to Charles.

It's my favorite fitting sweater, so
I wear it when I'm wanna feel comfy.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
Oh, good.

You deserve it.

We've, we're just getting
back from a long trip.

Not a long trip, but quick trip to NRB

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
so we have a lot to talk about,

but it is nice to be getting
caught up with work here at home.

I guess work here at the home office.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: Yeah.

Yeah, that was a whirlwind trip.

Uh, we're gonna talk about NRB today.

We're gonna talk about
film festivals Today.

We're gonna talk about what do you do
when you, when you, when events that

you have scheduled need to be canceled.

We can cover all the things
that are happening in real time

for in our lives right now.

So why don't we start with NRB?

You and I went to the National Religious
Broadcasters Convention last week in

Nashville, Tennessee at the Gaylord
Opryland, which feels like a Disneyland.

Inside of a mall, like that place
blew my mind when I walked in.

There were waterfalls and
people riding a boat in a river

in the middle of the place.

Like what?

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
Yeah, it's, it was, I was amazed.

It was one of the coolest
convention centers I've ever been

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
And somebody was saying something

like, it's the biggest, like a.

Indoor Convention Center in the
United States or something like that.

I, and I would believe

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: Yeah.

I don't need to fact check that.

I just go, yep, that,
that sounds accurate.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
checks out.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443:
I got lost trying to find the

restaurant for dinner in a place
that has signage and maps, just okay,

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
I don't know.

What does that say?

What does that say about you?

But,

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: I know.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
No, I can understand that.

It was definitely a lot of
walking and but a very well

attended conference, my goodness.

A huge showroom floor and multiple
auditoriums full of industry related

topics and trainings and breakout rooms.

And they had a pitch session going.

So it was very.

They had screenings
happening in different rooms.

I was able to sneak in and
see a sneak peek of the chosen

and other upcoming films.

So it was a lot going on.

It was great to be there.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: Yeah,
basically the entire faith-based.

Media industry is gathering
in one place for a week.

We were there for two days.

And so when you're gonna drop in and try
to make the most of the time you have

there really it, it's a strategic thing.

I remember you talking about this last
year, how you really did a lot of prep.

You figured out who you
wanted to meet with.

You called ahead, you set up meetings.

You took meetings, and it
was a great, a great time.

You came back with a lot of
new connections and a lot of

opportunities to follow up.

And this year I noticed you were doing
a lot of touches, a lot of like, oh,

you know, in the year that's passed,
we've done a deal with this group, or we

have them on where our movie's on their
streamer, or they, you know, we've met

them in time, so I want to put names to
faces and, and you did a lot of that.

How did it go for you this
year compared to last year?

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443: Yeah,
I I think it was just as effective.

As you mentioned when I, people who
have purchased or licensed Faith of

Angels reached out to me to reconnect
and say, Hey, are you going to NRB?

We'd love for you to stop by our booth
and give us a one of those director

media shout outs or something like that.

So there was an intention to go out there
and promote faith of Angels and reconnect

with those who I met last year and.

And throughout the year, licensed the
film to which was very fun to be able

to do that and say, okay this obviously
proved worthwhile and was effective.

and then we also with that mindset
of saying, okay, I'm going to go

out there with a purpose to try to
reconnect or make new connections.

With the intention of promoting and
placing faith of angels and other

films it was worthwhile to go out and
shake hands with Jared Gey from Angel.

And when they see me other than in their
email or at their Angel Studio's office.

They see me talking about upcoming movies.

it's good.

I don't, I think it's an
independent filmmaker is gonna

be on their radar and say, okay,
he's not just one and done thing.

We've got more movies and
he's working on more movies.

so yeah, we chatted with Angel we chatted
with pure flicks and great American,

I guess Great American pure flicks.

Chat with some new ones.

Vision video is great.

Redeem TV has licensed
faith of angels now.

And so each one of those was worthwhile.

And it, I think it le leads to more
and more, I sat in an hour long

podcast discussion with Hank Irwin,

Who's and John the Irwin brothers.

He's their dad.

Kind of one of the reasons that they're.

Already known and have a reputation.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: he's
the co-creator of the Irwin Brothers.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
Oh, you had that.

You had that loaded

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: Nope.

Nope, that's right off the cuff, man.

I'm gonna join you at comedy
Sports one of these days.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443: Yeah.

Yeah.

I think they're calling
right now looking for talent.

Yeah, so it was great.

It was very effective.

Plus Daren, it was fun to see.

You out there and see how you operated
because there you did not have downtime.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: No.

It would've been nice, when you're
on trips, like sometimes you're like,

oh, vacation mode, engage, but no it
almost never happens because you wanna

make the most of the time you have.

And so what was crazy is, you and
I we bought just the expo floor.

Passes.

I don't know if you bought
passes to other stuff.

I bought the expo floor pass, which,

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
expo for me this

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443:
yeah, and it's like there's eight

rows or nine rows of 250 plus vendors
that are there and have booths.

The first day I didn't even make it into
the floor because I had meetings lined up.

And two other things that I did that I
wanna share that I think are strategic

and that can really be used by anybody.

So the first one was our publicist
for brotherhood is Lori, uh, and

Callie with Biscuit Media Group.

And they are crazy connected.

They've been going to NRB for
decades, I think, and Lori recently,

Lori and Callie were recently at
Angel, and so they've been there.

Doing the biggest, you know, releases
for the last five or 10 years.

So to snag them up and get them on
our project basically what I did

was texted Lori and I said, Hey, I'm
gonna be here these times and these

days can we just, go around and meet
all the people that I should meet?

In the windows that you
have availability for that.

She's like, yeah, great.

So we met up on Wednesday and for two,
two and a half hours, she just walked

me from room to room to room to room
and said, you need to meet these guys.

And instead of just pointing me
at them, she would walk over and

go, can I introduce you to Daren?

He's got an amazing project
I want to tell you about.

And then she would tell them
the quick pitch of the movie.

Then they're lit up because they're
like, that sounds like an amazing movie,

and Lori's the one introducing you.

So like that handshake carried so much
leverage that after that first day I

was like, oh, I could go home now and,
and go home with, I mean, I've got 'em

here on my desk, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7,
8, and 10 business cards of people that

are like, please follow up with me.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443: yeah.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: you,
yeah, you got your stack there too.

And so having a publicist there, whether
you're at a film festival or a convention

like this, I think is probably top of
my list as far as leverage and strategy.

The other thing quickly is I used AI
to help me cu through the 250 vendors

that are on the, on the booth or
on the floor to go, okay, I've got.

Call it half a day here,
who should I go and talk to?

Because there's too many, and
most of them are not in alignment

with what my goals are right now.

So I literally went to the exhibitor page.

Grabbed the categories, fed it into
Claude AI and said, tell me the

companies that I should go visit.

And in less than 20 minutes, I had a list
of 10 booths that I needed to go and talk

to with here's the question to lead with.

Here's what to focus on and
here's what the outcome is.

So I put that in my notes and just
like went through like a shopping

list and just kind of said, great.

Click on that one.

And then I would leave a
little, um, voice to text note.

Underneath it so that I knew should
I follow up or not a fit or whatever.

But that led to another five or
six people that I'm now following

up with because they're like,
I, I'm so glad you stopped by.

Please let me know about this.

So those two strategies, publicists, and
then using AI to identify the top booths

that I should visit, it turned into a
really great two days at the convention.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
It was neat to see you do that,

and I agree that you know your
first time there and you've got.

Lori, who's leading you around and
making key introductions, and we

cannot overstate Lori's connective

We're sitting there talking at
somebody's booth and they're playing

highlights of NRB years past with
presenters on stage, and Lori pops up.

She's, a clip of Lori on stage,

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: a

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
presenting

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: moment.

Yeah,

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443: Yeah.

I didn't just go, oh, that's the
person that stopping people and

saying, Hey, I want you to meet Daren.

Listen to his project,

Which is much better than,
scanning somebody's name badge

oh, you're a distributor.

Can I give you pitch deck?

And it was like, wow, that is great.

So it was very well executed and it
made for a, an efficient two days there,

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: yeah.

Definitely.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
two days.

I know at the end of day
one I was thinking of Hey,

I'm gonna go catch a movie.

We wrapping up.

Thing closes at four o'clock.

The expo closes at four, and I'm like,
okay, things are kinda wrapping up.

I think I finally got out at about
fives and We'll catch a movie.

Nope.

Went back to the hotel, getting
caught up on some work and

realized, hey, we're here at NRB.

Let's use our time to plan the
next day, or whatever it was.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: Yeah.

And I was like, yeah,
let's go see a movie.

And then my investor dinner that
I had set up previously went for

two and a half hours, which is a
good thing for investor meetings.

But I didn't get back to the
room till nine or something that

night, so it was just like, no,
I'm not gonna go see a movie.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443: Yeah,

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: yeah.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
that was great.

Good.

I I told my wife, I said, I
think I'll go for three years.

I'm gonna give it three years and make
sure that's, that we're getting results.

But I think already in two,
that's, it's proving fruitful

and so I'll continue to go.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: Yeah,
if it leads to one deal on a streamer

or a platform or a channel, that not
only covers your cost of going, but also

forges a new relationship and who knows
how long that's gonna be ongoing and how

many other films, 'cause you've got a
whole library of films that you can be

licensing to people instead of just the
one that you're currently working on.

Super.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443: Yeah.

Yeah.

In fact, on the way out I guess
we were sitting at the airport, we

got a call from, from the current
distributor of a movie that, that

is five years old and he one of my
films and he said, Hey, we'd like to,

look at some other with this title.

So I don't know if that's just
effort begets results regardless

of if they're connected or not.

But we're grateful for that.

It was a good week.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: Yeah,

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443: there.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: I
think it's that law of physics, right?

Object in motion stays in motion.

So there's

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443: right.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443:
something about it.

You've gotta create your own momentum.

Okay, well, let's parlay that
into what's happening this week.

Originally on my calendar, I was,
uh, gonna be heading to New York

today, like on a flight right
now as we're recording this.

To do a big, a big event, a
spotlight event on brotherhood

for the Broadway community.

We were planning on
doing that on Wednesday.

But a huge storm came through
yesterday and today, Sunday, Monday,

and kind of shut down the East coast.

So flights got canceled and Broadway
is closing on Tuesday night and

just everything was kind of working
against us, pulling a big event

together with, 30, 40 people.

So we ended up.

Canceling slash postponing that event to
be determined when that'll happen again.

But it freed me up to do the thing that
we love to do every year, which is go

to Ziff, the Zions Indie Film Festival,
which is taking place this week.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443: Right
here in our own backyard in Orum, Utah.

Michelle and Marshall Moore,
who are friends of the show

are putting on their 25th.

It's the 25th anniversary of Ziff,

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: Crazy.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
uh, of that festival.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
And it's had several evolutions

throughout that 25 years.

But but we've attended, I've
attended probably since year six.

Just loved it.

It's a great festival.

Opening night tonight, we'll
be there to celebrate Rob

Diamond's got a new movie there.

And more just to make the, reconnect with.

The Utah Independent Film Market,
which is a wonderful film family.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443:
Yeah, I think it makes sense to tie

in what we were talking about with
NRB into the film festival circuit.

'cause you know, like we're
up and running, we're into

February of, uh, of a new year.

You know, things kind of kick
off every year with Sundance.

And we just got through Berlin al and EFM
that happened over the last two weeks.

So now we're into, you know,
spring season and we've got lots

and lots of festivals coming.

So how do you make the most of
your time at a film festival?

And, I mean, this is literally, this
happened this morning, so I'm, we're

talking about this stuff in real time,
but like, if I'm thinking about, I'm

gonna be going to a festival, the
first thing I do is think about when.

Where can I host an event
and invite a bunch of people

that I want to connect with?

Because the opposite is a hope strategy of
I'm gonna go to this festival, I'm gonna

buy a pass and I'm gonna attend, and I
will see what happens and let serendipity

guide the way the week turns out.

And for me, that's, that's
too unoptimized for my brain.

So I like thinking about who do I wanna
connect with and how can I do it in a

leveraged way where I could maybe meet.

Lots of people at the same time, rather
than taking 10 meetings over the week

because I don't have time for that.

I've definitely had a dozen people
reach out and want meetings and I'm

like, well, I'm gonna be in New York.

But now that it's published
that I'm gonna be in town.

I don't have time for 10 meetings.

Most of my day is gonna be here at my
house doing stuff for producer, fund one

and Brotherhood, and then I'll probably
pop over in the evenings to screen

movies and see people who made them.

So the first thing I did was set
up a lunch on Thursday, and by the

time you listen to this, it will, we
will have already eaten and digested

that food and so it's too late.

The first thing I did was set up an event
and invite 50 people and say, I'm gonna be

at this place eating tacos for two hours.

You should come and do the same.

And that's what I did this morning,
because you've gotta be the person

creating the table rather than waiting
for the invites to come to you, I think.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
That's wise.

Yeah that's, and everybody's gonna go to
the festival with a different purpose.

And you're saying, Hey, I just,
enough about making movies, I just

wanna go watch some movies for once.

Okay, that's an enjoyable thing to do.

And this festival's a
great one to do that at.

but yes, if your goal is to, there
are certain people that we need to

connect with and network with, what a
great idea to plan that out beforehand,

plan the event like you're saying,
that it's a, it's much more of a.

Less of a hope strategy and
more of a proactive, like I'm

going to, create my own fate

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
I love that.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: So
if you're a filmmaker with a film in a

festival and you know that there are gonna
be distributors there I'd be spending

the weeks before reaching out to set
up meetings and rather than hoping and

waiting that they come to your screening
and then ask you for a meeting afterwards.

Right?

Set up your own meetings and forge your
own destiny and those types of things.

Because like it, you know, if you, if
you, if the festival comes and goes

and you missed out, it's like that.

What do you have next?

Now you have no strategy.

Now you gotta start from zero again.

It's like, that's not great.

So.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
It's an interesting point, Daren,

this, it was the same thing that we
noticed at NRB where a lot of the

people with whom we were interacting,
we have their emails and we have their

contacts, and we maybe even chatted
with them once or twice in LinkedIn.

However, there is something about being
at a, an event in person where there's

this energy and momentum and the hub of
the industry working to, to make those

connections and go, okay, this now becomes
legitimate, or this it takes the email

to a next level and we're like, okay,
we're all on this like humid adventure

together and yeah, let's work together.

Let's.

Let's collaborate.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: Yeah.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
It's easier, I think, to commit to

a meeting or to, future projects or
whatever in that type of environment.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: Yeah.

Uh, just to reinforce what you just said,
which I think is a topic that we keep

circling around today, is the people
you're associated with matters because.

Like you're at the event, all of a
sudden you're, it's like you have

this sense of, oh, you're one of us.

Oh, you're here too.

That's you're different.

Like, I'm different because you're here
and then you add a layer of, oh, you're,

you're associated or standing next to,
or being introduced by these people.

Oh, you're at the same lunch as these,
you're in the same room as I'm in.

Those things matter.

Right?

If you're in the.

I don't want to call out names of, but if
you're in the big room upstairs, instead

of on, on the expo floor downstairs,
those are different rooms to be in.

If your, uh, publicist is walking around,
that's different than you, you know,

knocking on doors and, and handing out
your business card or your one pager.

Another thing that happened at the
event, which was interesting and kind

of reinforces this point, is I had
this long lunch with an investor,

uh, now friend on Wednesday night.

I bumped into him on the
expo floor the next morning.

He said, oh, Daren, come here.

I want to introduce you to somebody.

So he comes over, introduced
me to somebody that I was gonna

meet with later at the booth,
and I'm like, oh, that's perfect.

But because this guy is introducing
me, they actually spent five, 10

minutes with me on the floor, whereas
I would've been waiting in line to,

to get my turn to give my little
32nd elevator pitch at the booth.

The difference in the positioning
of those two options is massive

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
Night and.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443:
night and day.

And so there's a difference.

And so the more you can craft those
opportunities and those experiences,

the better off it's gonna go.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443: I
like that approach at festivals too.

At Zions one of the great things, and
I think we've been doing this show long

enough that we've mentioned Ziff before
and talked about our experiences there.

I find great I get very excited to.

Introduce other filmmakers to
distributors and be that bridge.

So it's not I made a movie and I'm
hoping to try to find a distributor.

It's oh, so and I saw your movie as
a screener to be submitted for Ziff.

I'd love to introduce you to.

Whatever it is, BMG or candlelight or
whatever distributor's going to be here

at the festival, whether they pick up
your movie or not, it's a good contact to

have, and let me beat that bridge for you.

We set up a time and we find the
distributor when we're there, or

set up a time with the distributor.

Distributor too and say, I'd
like you to meet this filmmaker.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: Yeah.

It's one of those oppor, and anyone
can do this, where you can go, oh,

hey, so and so I know and I'm talking
to so and hey, come over here.

I want to introduce you to you
can just do that at festivals.

Even if you're not the most
connected person, you might just

have one or two times you do that,
but doing that increases your.

Not value, but your leverage, your
positioning in that environment.

And people remember that people really
are grateful for being introduced to

cool people because they're, they're
just like, you are going, who should

I meet and who should I talk to?

And I wanna make sure I'm having the
right conversations that are gonna help

me with the things that I care about.

And so the more that you know, I
know what you're up to, Garrett.

So if I'm there and I'm
talking to somebody.

A hundred percent.

If you walk by, I'm gonna go,
Garrett, do you know so and so?

And if you do, then great.

And it can be a 32nd
conversation, okay, I gotta go.

But if you don't know them and I am making
an intro, or vice versa, it's like, oh,

well now there's a real conversation
to be had because of the intro.

So there's just a ton of value in
that and you can, you can create it.

You don't have to wait for it to show up.

You can just start doing that.

And it's weird that it starts
coming back to you the same way.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
One little insider tip too that I

do at festivals, and I don't know
if this is hokey or not, or just

but I do it and it's been fruitful.

Is.

Usually at the end of screenings,
there's q and as, right?

Where the filmmakers come up, or, yeah,
where they introduce cast and crew.

And if you see something that you you
see a movie that's well done or well

made, you wanna make that contact or
make an impression on the filmmaker

or the distributor or whatever it
is, it's super easy to just take

out your phone and snap a picture.

Of the q and a filmmakers
love pictures of themselves,

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: Yep.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443: right?

I'll say that.

I'm not shy to say that.

And then afterwards, go up and you've
got that picture and say, Hey, I'd

love to get, let me text this to you
or email it to you, and more often

than another, we go, oh, that's cool.

And that starts the thread,
the conversation where

it's very un unintrusive.

It'd be like, Hey, can I have your.

I'd love to contact with you in that brief
second, you're, they're not viewing you

as a peer or a filmmaker, whatever it is.

They're just, you
attended their screening.

That's great.

But it's a great way to get to know
people and to maintain that contact.

'cause you've got that already,
you've, you're giving them, you're

giving them something of value.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: It
doesn't just work for filmmakers.

I've used that exact strategy to
get in touch or to have a touch

with, uh, executive producers,
investors, distributors.

Because if they're up on the
panel too, it's like, Hey.

Here's a picture for you.

And they may put it on LinkedIn, they
may put it on their website, they may,

you know, they're gonna use it for maybe
different purposes instead of just on

Instagram of like, Hey, here's my film.

It's like, oh, here's
me in a film setting.

And I, I guess it's the same
idea as a filmmaker, but

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443: That's

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: to be
able to, like, I've got, you know, the

cell numbers of lots of investors and, and
executive producers now, and it's like.

You often need a reason to talk to
them because you wanna follow up with

them a lot more often or frequently
than they want to follow up with you.

Uh, 'cause they have more demands on
their time and attention than we do.

So having opportunities like
that, that are organic and

genuine, it's like, oh man.

Thanks so much.

I appreciate that.

How is your project going?

Is typically how those conversations go.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
Yeah, totally.

Now that I've said that, Daren, you're
gonna get lots of people coming up to you

saying, Hey, I got this picture of you.

Can I

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443:
I love it.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
Your number?

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443:
I, I don't take selfies, so

like I need 'em every so often.

I shouldn't say, I don't take, I don't
typically, I don't like to take selfies.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
Yeah, no I get that.

Okay, so that's that
is this week we've got

Last week was NRB and then what's next?

Any we, you and I had a great shoot this
week for Brotherhood behind the scenes.

Shoot.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: Yeah.

Goodness.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
is just rolling forward.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: It
is, and you're forcing me to look

at the calendar and it's oh my gosh.

We are if we're at the start of
this week, can we count this week?

One, two F.

Two weeks from now we're doing like our
all hands our creative team is in town

for like our kickoff of pre-production.

Like we're in pre-production three
weeks from now and we're shooting

a month and a half from now.

One, well, let's see, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.

So about seven, eight weeks
till we're in production on

brotherhood, which is bonkers.

But this last weekend we
were doing dance auditions.

We are in the middle of casting still.

We've got probably four or five
more supporting cast roles to cast.

Russ and our casting director, Ben
Cummins, are, you know, hot on the

trail of a lot of those talented people.

So it's, you know, we're just.

Cranking on all fronts at this point
and trying to keep up with the momentum

of this project has been fun and
exhilarating and a little nerve wracking.

'cause it's like, I thought six months
requiring six months of development

was gonna be like luxurious and great.

Like we got so much time,
we can just kind of.

Saunter around and it'll all, no,
it's like it still comes at you like

a freight train and you're like,
oh, it's here, it's arrived, and you

better, figure out how to get on.

Very exciting times.

But before we know it, we're gonna be
in prep, and then before we know it,

we're gonna be shooting and it's, I
can't wait, but I also want more time.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
And your website's up and active.

So if I wanted to find out
more, I could just go to movie.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: Yeah.

Brotherhood movie.com

put in your info because we're sending
out updates that are exclusive to

email subscribers, and the meta or
the behind the scenes of this is like,

okay, well, why would you do that?

Why would you limit the exposure of
the content that you're creating?

To those that are on an email list, well,
the answer is to build the email list.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443: Yeah.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443:
you can't anymore.

I mean, for the last 10 years.

You can't just say,
subscribe to my newsletter.

Like, that's not enough to enough for the
transaction to be valuable for both sides

because giving up your email list means
I'm gonna get spam email all the time.

So you have to have something.

To trade for that email so that
it said valid and a, a valuable

transaction for both sides.

So for us, the value is we
can reach people directly.

We don't have to rely on Instagram
or, or LinkedIn or some algorithm

to put our content in front of
people whenever we have a new

piece of notable and remarkable.

Stuff that's coming out, a press
release or any of those things, we

can send it directly to the people who
we know wanna know about the project.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443: Yeah.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443:
it's a way to build the email list.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
There's great plan and we've, we

did that before with Faith Angels
and the Carpenter, and it works.

It works.

It creates a an early audience
of interested potential viewers.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: Yeah,
my internal goal is 10,000 people By the

time this movie comes out, which seems
small, probably seems large for lots

of filmmakers, but in the grand scheme
of things, if a movie is gonna make.

A million dollars opening weekend, that's
probably somewhere around a hundred

thousand people that need to go see it.

How are you gonna do that?

Because if 20% or 10% of your email list,
which is high converts into a ticket

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443: Yeah,

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443:
that's a million people on an email

list to sell a hundred thousand
tickets, that's not enough.

I'm trying to get 10,000 and hoping
that those 10,000 creates more and more.

But man, I would love to have a million
or 10 million people on an email list.

But you guys, everyone starts from zero.

So Craftsman Films and brotherhood are
building at the same time from zero.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
You got I love your math on that and

I'm gonna do some math because what
you're saying is really fascinating.

You got even if you have an email
list of 10,000, you go, okay.

What percentage is going to go
to the movie opening weekend or

even over the course of the run?

You look at Angel Studios,
their subscriber, the list is 2

million, 2 million Guild members.

So these are Guild members that are
people actively like paying, whether

they can't help subscribe or whatever.

It's, they're actively paying.

Monthly fee be a part of Angel.

So we're getting the emails, getting
the promotions, and so you do the math

on that and you say, Hey, 2 million
where their last movie just opened it.

What did it open 7 million on?

Its opening weekend or something.

So you go, what percentage of
that list then is going that

opening weekend box office?

it's a far cry from.

What it could be.

If you got 2 million subscribers, that
should be a $20 million opening weekend.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: Yeah,

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443: that,

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: so
they had about 600,000 people show up.

600,000 tickets.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443: yeah.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: divided
by 2 million is wait, 2 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

That's 30%.

If you attribute every single ticket
sold opening weekend to their list

of Guild members, the 2 million
that are on their list, that's 30%.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443: which

Big attribution.

I wouldn't do that.

I

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443:
I wouldn't either.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443: oh, you

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443:
And I also know that their

email list is 10 times that.

So if you say 20 million, that's a 3%
conversion rate, which is more accurate.

That's pretty standard.

So 10%, like I said, that's high.

Like a 10% conversion rate
is a very engaged list.

So assume it's gonna be between two and
5% that convert even on your email list.

So again, the numbers are crazy.

If you need a million people
to show up, you're gonna need.

20 million people on an email list.

Like, not, I don't know any filmmaker
that can do that besides Mark Fish,

mom, mark Applier, who can get, you
know, a, a large percentage of his

38 million subscribers to show up.

That's an outlier.

You can't rely on that.

I don't know any other filmmaker that
has millions with an S on an email list.

So I'm trying to think like a business and
go, okay, A 24 probably has a big list.

I don't think Pixar has an email list
that they're utilizing very well.

Angel has a big one.

A 24 Blumhouse does a
good job with marketing.

There's only a handful of companies
that even get this and it's

okay, but that's what it takes.

An email list of 10 million plus to get a
million people to show up opening weekend.

Crazy expensive math.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443: we
gotta we got our work cut out for us.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443:
Indeed we do, but.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443: our
list through the Help Them See Foundation

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443:
There you go.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
Wednesday we, we meet

with our marketing team.

Our marketing I guess agency is gonna

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: Nice.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
focus on building that list.

And we'll be doing monthly
read throughs on different

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: Amazing.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
The first of wa, I guess we did our

first one for the Pearl and that has.

Been funded, through donations.

So now we will do one next Monday a
series, a American History series.

so go to the help mc foundation.org

and sign up on that list so you can
get updates for when we're doing

these read throughs or other events.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: Nice man.

Oh, that's awesome.

I love to see it.

Very cool.

We'll hopefully see everybody at
Ziff this week, even though you'll

listen to this after Ziff ends.

But I'm looking forward to seeing all
our friends here locally and watching

some good movies and eating some tacos.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443:
Alright, man.

Great.

Great talking with

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: Same.

garrett-batty_1_02-23-2026_131443: in
next week, or we'll see you tonight at Z.

daren-smith_1_02-23-2026_131443: Okay.

Sounds good man.

Take care.

This season of Truly Independent is
supported by the Help Them See Foundation.

Help Them See is a nonprofit dedicated
to supporting feature films that

inspire faith, hope, and connection.

By partnering with filmmakers
that help them see Foundation

brings meaningful stories to life
and shares them with audiences

worldwide, making a lasting cultural
impact through the power of cinema.

Learn more and discover how you can
be part of the movement by visiting.

Help them see foundation.

Thanks for joining us.

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don't miss the rest of the journey.

Today's episode was edited by
Michael Bradford and produced

by Three Coin Productions.